I am so saddened and disheartened to learn that my best friend, JT, a Jackson's chameleon is on the brink of death due to metabolic bone disease. I am confused because the vet told us yesterday that he looked better than most chameleons he sees and it is in the early stages of the disease. He recommended using a Power Sol light bulb, which emits UVA and UVB. Everything we have previously read about on this forum recommends bulbs that emit UVB. Who knew about the need for UVA? I haven't seen it posted here, but regardless, I blame myself for JT's suffering and end of life condition. I just pray that he won't suffer any more. He has spent the past two days collapsed in his enclosure. We took him to the vet yesterday, and he gave him a shot in his swollen leg with Vitamin A, D, and Baytril (?) antibiotic. JT is so weak and lethargic that he can barely lift his head. We were told to force feed him some crickets today. It was terrible. He resisted as much as he could, but he never even hissed or tried to bite us. This is the sweetest chameleon we have ever owned. Is it my fault for not knowing about the need for UVA? I totally blame myself. My husband said we didn't know, but how could we miss this? I just hate to see him suffer. I can't bare the thought of losing him, but I feel even more strongly about not having him suffer. His leg is huge. The vet said this is not uncommon, but he said the lethargy today is not good. Does anyone know if all chameleons should have UVA and UVB lighting? It makes sense, though, since they would have exposure to both in the wild. I am beyond distraught as I feel like I have contributed to the demise of my best friend, which is unbearable. I don't know what's wrong with me, but I am so attached to this little guy that I am having a hard time functioning. I wish I could take on his pain and suffering so he wouldn't have to go through it. If anyone has any words of wisdom, they would be greatly appreciated.
Our vet said we should have been using UVA
- Thread starter iluvrango
- Start date
You might like to read the information on this Site...
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/whatisuv.htm
From what I've read/been told uva has nothing to do with MBD...uvb does...and vitamin A and phosphorous and D3 from supplements and calcium.
Has your UVB light been passing through glass?
Have you been supplementing/dusting the insects with phosphorous - calcium before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings? Have you used a phosphorous - free calcium D3 powder twice a month. And a vitamin powder with a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A twice a month?
What donyou feed/gutload the insects with?
I can't understand why the vet didn't give him a shot of calcium when the chameleon is developing MBD.
So sorry your chameleon is doing poorly.
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/whatisuv.htm
From what I've read/been told uva has nothing to do with MBD...uvb does...and vitamin A and phosphorous and D3 from supplements and calcium.
Has your UVB light been passing through glass?
Have you been supplementing/dusting the insects with phosphorous - calcium before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings? Have you used a phosphorous - free calcium D3 powder twice a month. And a vitamin powder with a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A twice a month?
What donyou feed/gutload the insects with?
I can't understand why the vet didn't give him a shot of calcium when the chameleon is developing MBD.
So sorry your chameleon is doing poorly.
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Kinyonga is right, UVA is not necessary to synthesize vitamin D3, and lack of vitamin D3 is what causes MBD to my understanding. UVB IS required to produce D3, so you do need a decent UVB lamp that is replaced every 6 months. Make and model of the bulb is very important, and incandescent bulbs cannot produce UVB. Glass blocks UVB. Additionally, most standard UVB bulbs also produce UVA.
What lamp and fixture are you using for UVB, and what supplements are you using? When is the last time the UVB lamp was replaced? How close can he get to the UVB in his cage? Do you have pictures of him and the cage?
What lamp and fixture are you using for UVB, and what supplements are you using? When is the last time the UVB lamp was replaced? How close can he get to the UVB in his cage? Do you have pictures of him and the cage?
Action Jackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
Can you post a picture of your Jackson? I have yet to see a Jackson with outward signs of MBD.
UVA is visible light, nothing special. So your basking bulb, even if just a common house bulb, has been giving off UVA the whole time. Or any other lights in the room. And as others have already covered, UVA is not necessary to the formation of D3 which involved in the absorption and metabolism of calcium so it does not play a role in MBD. UVB is vitally critical however. Please post a picture because one swollen leg does not necessarily mean MBD.
Lovereps
Avid Member
UVB is key to MBD BUT
The Reptisun 5.0 bulbs that many of us use does emit UVA as well as UVB.
Here is the chart from Zoomed
http://zoomed.com/Library/ProductDBFiles/Reptile-Lamp-Chart.pdf
I suspect that the bulb is a PowerSun rather than a Power Sol.
A 100Watt Powersun is going to make your Jackson's enclosure too hot for him, as he is a montane chameleon from cooler regions than other chams.
Here are what his cage temperatures should be , quoted from https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/jacksons/
Temperature:
Baby/juvenile (<9 months): 70-75F (21-23C) ambient, 75-80F (23-26C) basking
Adult: 70-80F (21-26C) ambient, 82-85F (29C) basking
Ambient temperature refers to the temperature near the bottom of the cage and basking temperature refers to the hottest point accessible to your chameleon. Basking is where a chameleon absorbs heat from an external overhead source to help regulate their body temperature; it also promotes proper digestion and a healthy metabolism. Nighttime temperatures can safely drop down to 50F (10C) so a night heat source should not be used unless temperatures are lower than this.
If the temps near you are in the 60s or 70s you can take him outdoors and the UVA and UVB that he gets from a bit of sun exposure will far exceed what any bulb will give him.
To safely sun a cham, the temps must be right and he must have access to shade and water.
Humidity is also extremely important to chameleon health.
Too little is bad , as is a constantly wet environment.
Here are the humidity guidelines for a Jackson's
Humidity:
Humidity is an important aspect of chameleon husbandry. Jackson's chameleons require levels around 60-80%, which can be achieved by several misting sessions a day over all areas of the cage.
There is more than one veterinarian frequenting the forum.
If UVA was key to MBD, these chamkeeping vets would be well aware of it and alert us all.
One of these Ferretinmyshoes also is a longtime Jackson's owner.
Here is her excellent writeup about MBD https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
It tells you everything you would want to know about it.
While he is on Baytril, your cham needs more water.
Mistings will also help to loosen respiratory secretions.
There's nothing wrong with you for being upset about a pet.
We care for them and are emotionally attached to them.
Unless he hasn't eaten for weeks, forcefeeding him is probably more stress than benefit.
I, too, love Jackson's chams and wish the best for your little guy.
Feel free to PM me or send an email, if you'd like and I'll be glad to talk about Jackson's and Jackson's care.
I have bred some of my Jackson's and even have a few of my 7 month old captive bred Jackson's in the classifieds forum section.
The Reptisun 5.0 bulbs that many of us use does emit UVA as well as UVB.
Here is the chart from Zoomed
http://zoomed.com/Library/ProductDBFiles/Reptile-Lamp-Chart.pdf
I suspect that the bulb is a PowerSun rather than a Power Sol.
A 100Watt Powersun is going to make your Jackson's enclosure too hot for him, as he is a montane chameleon from cooler regions than other chams.
Here are what his cage temperatures should be , quoted from https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/jacksons/
Temperature:
Baby/juvenile (<9 months): 70-75F (21-23C) ambient, 75-80F (23-26C) basking
Adult: 70-80F (21-26C) ambient, 82-85F (29C) basking
Ambient temperature refers to the temperature near the bottom of the cage and basking temperature refers to the hottest point accessible to your chameleon. Basking is where a chameleon absorbs heat from an external overhead source to help regulate their body temperature; it also promotes proper digestion and a healthy metabolism. Nighttime temperatures can safely drop down to 50F (10C) so a night heat source should not be used unless temperatures are lower than this.
If the temps near you are in the 60s or 70s you can take him outdoors and the UVA and UVB that he gets from a bit of sun exposure will far exceed what any bulb will give him.
To safely sun a cham, the temps must be right and he must have access to shade and water.
Humidity is also extremely important to chameleon health.
Too little is bad , as is a constantly wet environment.
Here are the humidity guidelines for a Jackson's
Humidity:
Humidity is an important aspect of chameleon husbandry. Jackson's chameleons require levels around 60-80%, which can be achieved by several misting sessions a day over all areas of the cage.
There is more than one veterinarian frequenting the forum.
If UVA was key to MBD, these chamkeeping vets would be well aware of it and alert us all.
One of these Ferretinmyshoes also is a longtime Jackson's owner.
Here is her excellent writeup about MBD https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
It tells you everything you would want to know about it.
While he is on Baytril, your cham needs more water.
Mistings will also help to loosen respiratory secretions.
There's nothing wrong with you for being upset about a pet.
We care for them and are emotionally attached to them.
Unless he hasn't eaten for weeks, forcefeeding him is probably more stress than benefit.
I, too, love Jackson's chams and wish the best for your little guy.
Feel free to PM me or send an email, if you'd like and I'll be glad to talk about Jackson's and Jackson's care.
I have bred some of my Jackson's and even have a few of my 7 month old captive bred Jackson's in the classifieds forum section.
ridgebax1
Avid Member
It's hard not to beat yourself up when a pet dies, even if you did things right. I recently experienced this when I lost both of my guys within weeks of each other. I just this past week broke down my cages and equipment and put it in storage. I am not going to get another cham for quiet some time as I have some other things that need my attention and would not want to jeopardize a new pet. But as the others have said, MBD is related to UVB and supplementation. The cham has to have the correct levels of D3 to be able to properly metabolize the calcium and it needs the correct amount of UVB to make D3.
I agree with not force feeding it is quite stressful for them to be handled and forced to eat or even drink and it risky because they could aspirate. I think stress is what contributed to my second cham's demise as I had been handling him once or twice a day for weeks treating a burn. It was very traumatic for him and painful. I hope you guy recovers.
I agree with not force feeding it is quite stressful for them to be handled and forced to eat or even drink and it risky because they could aspirate. I think stress is what contributed to my second cham's demise as I had been handling him once or twice a day for weeks treating a burn. It was very traumatic for him and painful. I hope you guy recovers.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
Definitely find a better vet. He does not understand UVB/calcium/D3/phosphorus metabolism in herps. Your cham WAS getting UVA all along. IMHO this sounds more like an infection or an injury to me. Baytril is tough on chams and some individuals react more strongly to it than others. This could contribute to his new lethargy. They often lose their appetite when on Baytril. If he's got a good body weight it is more important to keep him very well hydrated to avoid kidney damage. If you can't get him to eat anything without a huge struggle you can give him some calories and electrolytes (in the sort term) by dropper feeding him some Pedialyte.
Great info.
Thank you all for the great information. I will stop beating myself up for not having a UVA bulb in our chameleons' enclosures. Our veiled is doing fine and she has the same set up. Both are in their own individual 4 foot by 2 foot screened enclosures, next to windows, but they cannot see each other. They both have a 5.0 UVB bulb plus a heat lamp. We just recently added the power sun bulb to replace the heat lamp, at the recommendation of the new vet. Poor JT's right front leg is huge. He is supposed to return to the vet on Monday for another shot of vitamins A and D and possibly Baytril, if he survives that long. We may stop force feeding him - it is so stressful and traumatic for all of us. The pedialyte in a dropper sounds like a good idea. He was drinking water yesterday, so that is probably a good sign, but the lethargy persists. He perks up for a little while after we force feed him and take him outside for 15 minutes. We live in Texas, so we have to take him out in the morning sun. As far as supplementation, we were dusting the crickets for both JT (the Jackson's) as well as our healthy female veiled, with Calcium No D every day. Once every two weeks, we were dusting the crickets with Calcium plus D. Now we are dusting them every day with Calcium plus D. We didn't know if we should give them any vitamins, so we had not been doing that. Their crickets are gut loaded with organic carrots, organic Kale and some organic baby lettuces (no spinach). Why would the Jackson's, whom we purchased last Christmas as a baby, become so sick when the veiled, whom we have had since last June, seems to be doing fine? Are Jackson's more fragile or do they have different needs? It is really agonizing to watch him suffer and to not know if he will be able to pull through. He is the sweetest chameleon I have ever encountered. I just don't want him to suffer.
Thank you all for the great information. I will stop beating myself up for not having a UVA bulb in our chameleons' enclosures. Our veiled is doing fine and she has the same set up. Both are in their own individual 4 foot by 2 foot screened enclosures, next to windows, but they cannot see each other. They both have a 5.0 UVB bulb plus a heat lamp. We just recently added the power sun bulb to replace the heat lamp, at the recommendation of the new vet. Poor JT's right front leg is huge. He is supposed to return to the vet on Monday for another shot of vitamins A and D and possibly Baytril, if he survives that long. We may stop force feeding him - it is so stressful and traumatic for all of us. The pedialyte in a dropper sounds like a good idea. He was drinking water yesterday, so that is probably a good sign, but the lethargy persists. He perks up for a little while after we force feed him and take him outside for 15 minutes. We live in Texas, so we have to take him out in the morning sun. As far as supplementation, we were dusting the crickets for both JT (the Jackson's) as well as our healthy female veiled, with Calcium No D every day. Once every two weeks, we were dusting the crickets with Calcium plus D. Now we are dusting them every day with Calcium plus D. We didn't know if we should give them any vitamins, so we had not been doing that. Their crickets are gut loaded with organic carrots, organic Kale and some organic baby lettuces (no spinach). Why would the Jackson's, whom we purchased last Christmas as a baby, become so sick when the veiled, whom we have had since last June, seems to be doing fine? Are Jackson's more fragile or do they have different needs? It is really agonizing to watch him suffer and to not know if he will be able to pull through. He is the sweetest chameleon I have ever encountered. I just don't want him to suffer.
If you've been giving JT calcium all along and he's had exposure to the UVB its not likely he has MBD IMHO. I would be very careful adding more D3 from supplements....too much can lead to health issues, especially in a Jacksons.
You mentioned he has a swollen leg...is it swollen near the ankle? Does he have any recently missing toenails or swollen toes? Can you post a photo of the leg please?
You mentioned he has a swollen leg...is it swollen near the ankle? Does he have any recently missing toenails or swollen toes? Can you post a photo of the leg please?
Lovereps
Avid Member
Please stop the daily D3---that is not good for either of your chams but is especially bad for your Jackson's.
Veileds need D3 2x a Month
Jackson's D3 1x a Month
Jackson's have different needs than a Veiled.
They need lower temperatures, less frequent supplementing, higher humidity and long misting sessions.
While on Baytril, he will benefit from more water to protect his kidneys from the harsh effects of Baytril.
We're rooting for your cham, too.
Jackson's are sweet and that why I love Jackson's chams.
JT is hanging in there
We will take a picture of JT and his huge right front leg tomorrow. It is so strange how he seemed fine last Friday, 8/15, except he was sleeping with his right front leg dangling. Then by Sunday it was huge. How could MBD progress so quickly?
Some history - we purchased him on 12/24 from PetSmart. I saw him there a few weeks earlier and decided he was all I wanted for Christmas! I ordered the 4'x2'x2' enclosure, which engulfed him when he was so tiny. We hand fed him until he grew large enough to hunt in his enclosure. We started out with the traditional 5.0 UVB light and heat lamp on top of his screened enclosure. He seemed so happy, constantly circling his "High Five" freeway of vines. Coming from such a small aquarium enclosure at PetSmart, this must have been overwhelming for him. Over the past few months, JT has slowed down his trek around the High Five. My husband thought it was due to JT being older, but he is only 9 months old or less right now. Since we had the original UVB light that we purchased when we got him on 12/24, I wonder if the UVB rays had diminished even though the light was still working 7 1/2 months later. We have dusted his crickets every day with Calcium and then we dust them every two weeks with Calcium plus D. (Since he has been ill, we have dusted them generously with Calcium plus D daily.) I never realized a chameleon could be sweet, but this guy is amazing. Before he got sick, he would rush (as fast as he could) to the front of his enclosure when I came home from work. He would look at me as if to say, "hmmm". Whenever we wanted to take him outside, he would let us reach in the enclosure and pick him up. He truly loved going outside. When we would inevitably bring him back inside to go back in his spacious enclosure, he would rear up on his hind legs and turn around, clearly protesting going back in his enclosure. Despite everything he has been through, including the force-feedings, he has never attempted to bite us. (Our veiled would take a huge triangle out of our hands if we ever tried to pick her up. She only comes out of her enclosure when she is in heat, and even then she is hissing at us.) I guess my point is that I love JT and feel such a connection to him that I can't imagine losing him. I pray for him every night. I don't know what else we can or should do, and yet it feels like we haven't done enough. But tomorrow (or today, technically) is a new day. We will see what it brings.
We will take a picture of JT and his huge right front leg tomorrow. It is so strange how he seemed fine last Friday, 8/15, except he was sleeping with his right front leg dangling. Then by Sunday it was huge. How could MBD progress so quickly?
Some history - we purchased him on 12/24 from PetSmart. I saw him there a few weeks earlier and decided he was all I wanted for Christmas! I ordered the 4'x2'x2' enclosure, which engulfed him when he was so tiny. We hand fed him until he grew large enough to hunt in his enclosure. We started out with the traditional 5.0 UVB light and heat lamp on top of his screened enclosure. He seemed so happy, constantly circling his "High Five" freeway of vines. Coming from such a small aquarium enclosure at PetSmart, this must have been overwhelming for him. Over the past few months, JT has slowed down his trek around the High Five. My husband thought it was due to JT being older, but he is only 9 months old or less right now. Since we had the original UVB light that we purchased when we got him on 12/24, I wonder if the UVB rays had diminished even though the light was still working 7 1/2 months later. We have dusted his crickets every day with Calcium and then we dust them every two weeks with Calcium plus D. (Since he has been ill, we have dusted them generously with Calcium plus D daily.) I never realized a chameleon could be sweet, but this guy is amazing. Before he got sick, he would rush (as fast as he could) to the front of his enclosure when I came home from work. He would look at me as if to say, "hmmm". Whenever we wanted to take him outside, he would let us reach in the enclosure and pick him up. He truly loved going outside. When we would inevitably bring him back inside to go back in his spacious enclosure, he would rear up on his hind legs and turn around, clearly protesting going back in his enclosure. Despite everything he has been through, including the force-feedings, he has never attempted to bite us. (Our veiled would take a huge triangle out of our hands if we ever tried to pick her up. She only comes out of her enclosure when she is in heat, and even then she is hissing at us.) I guess my point is that I love JT and feel such a connection to him that I can't imagine losing him. I pray for him every night. I don't know what else we can or should do, and yet it feels like we haven't done enough. But tomorrow (or today, technically) is a new day. We will see what it brings.
Stop the daily D3??
Just saw the previous post after I submitted my latest post. Please help me understand, why would the daily D3 be bad for the Jackson's when he is exhibiting symptoms of a swollen right front leg and (according to the new vet) a soft nose? If he is experiencing MBD, shouldn't he have more D3? I believe the Vitamin D is in the weekly shot the vet plans to give him for the next two weeks. (The veiled is healthy and is still receiving D3 dusted crickets twice per month.) Thanks for your guidance - just need to understand the rationale. Also, his right front leg is swollen in the lower leg only. Just above the ankle. The vet told us his "right" toenail came off so he cauterized it. Now my husband says it is oozing clear fluid. I don't know what to do and I am afraid to go back to the vet on Monday for the next injection of A, D and possibly Baytril. Also, JT has not had a bowel movement in the past three days even though we have been force feeding three to four crickets per day since Tuesday. My husband placed his bottom in a bowl of lukewarm water today while they sat outside and JT seemed content, but nothing happened afterward. This is awful. I feel like a terrible custodian of JT and I don't know what to do at this point.
Just saw the previous post after I submitted my latest post. Please help me understand, why would the daily D3 be bad for the Jackson's when he is exhibiting symptoms of a swollen right front leg and (according to the new vet) a soft nose? If he is experiencing MBD, shouldn't he have more D3? I believe the Vitamin D is in the weekly shot the vet plans to give him for the next two weeks. (The veiled is healthy and is still receiving D3 dusted crickets twice per month.) Thanks for your guidance - just need to understand the rationale. Also, his right front leg is swollen in the lower leg only. Just above the ankle. The vet told us his "right" toenail came off so he cauterized it. Now my husband says it is oozing clear fluid. I don't know what to do and I am afraid to go back to the vet on Monday for the next injection of A, D and possibly Baytril. Also, JT has not had a bowel movement in the past three days even though we have been force feeding three to four crickets per day since Tuesday. My husband placed his bottom in a bowl of lukewarm water today while they sat outside and JT seemed content, but nothing happened afterward. This is awful. I feel like a terrible custodian of JT and I don't know what to do at this point.
Using Reptisun 5.0 UVB Light - 6 inches from highest vine in his screened enclosure
(Will post a picture when it's daylight. His arm is very distorted.)
(Will post a picture when it's daylight. His arm is very distorted.)
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
There is a condition called gout(just like humans get) which can cause joints to swell. Is the swelling hard or filled with fluid? Can you tell? Edit: Sorry just read your last post and you said it was oozing fluid. So don't think that would be gout as gout is hard as it consist of uric acid crystals. As far as the D3...d3 when given artificially in excess amounts can cause health problems. D3 from the sun or a uvb light is something they can not overdose on. Oozing of fluid is not MBD. Sounds like some sort of abcess or infection which will require antibiotics.
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Lovereps
Avid Member
I understand your frustration and confusion.
Yes, please stop giving both your chams DAILY D3.
Panthers and Veiled can have D3 2x a month.
Jackson's only get D3 1x a month.
Although some D3 is necessary for chams kept indoors ---too much is very bad.
You can call it D3 toxicity or Hypervitaminosis D but no matter what you call it, too much D3 given to a chameleon can do serious harm to internal organs.
Your cham, with his swollen leg, damaged toe and lethargy sounds very much like he has a severe infection in his leg.
It sounds like your cham had injured his toe which allowed bacteria to get in.
The bacteria have caused an infection to spread throughout his leg.
Oftentimes, chams get their nail stuck in the cage screening and injure toes and/or break nails when trying to break free of the screen.
In addition to an injection of Baytril, he should be receiving an antibiotic every day, regardless of whether it is injected or oral..
This dosing is not a guess on my part, it comes directly from the manufacturer of Baytril , on Page 4http://www.animalhealth.bayer.com/fileadmin/media/baytril/pdf_companion/kap8.pdf
One of my Jackson's chams acquired an infection this way.
His foot was swollen, as the infection had not yet progressed to the rest of the leg.
My chams' vet squeezed the foot to get the thick, cheesy pus to come out through the toe where the infection had begun and the nail had been lost.
He instructed me to do the same the next day and, if need be, the following day, too.
My cham was given oral Baytril for several weeks, which cleared up the infection.
An infection that has caused the entire leg to be swollen may require even more aggressive treatment but not being a vet, I do not know for certain nor do I know what that treatment might be.
You did not say what medicine, if any, the vet gave you to administer or what else he told you to do, if anything.
If the only treatment has been a single shot of Baytril, I would quickly find someone else with more medical knowledge about chameleons to treat the poor cham.
What troubles me is that your vet has told you things that are 100% known to be untrue and, unless I've misunderstood, your cham seemed far better before treatment than afterwards.
Vets spend very little time in veterinary school learning about reptile medicine.
Unless they have specialized in it, they often have only a very general knowledge of it.
Feel free to send me a PM or email by clicking on my username.
Yes, please stop giving both your chams DAILY D3.
Panthers and Veiled can have D3 2x a month.
Jackson's only get D3 1x a month.
Although some D3 is necessary for chams kept indoors ---too much is very bad.
You can call it D3 toxicity or Hypervitaminosis D but no matter what you call it, too much D3 given to a chameleon can do serious harm to internal organs.
Your cham, with his swollen leg, damaged toe and lethargy sounds very much like he has a severe infection in his leg.
It sounds like your cham had injured his toe which allowed bacteria to get in.
The bacteria have caused an infection to spread throughout his leg.
Oftentimes, chams get their nail stuck in the cage screening and injure toes and/or break nails when trying to break free of the screen.
In addition to an injection of Baytril, he should be receiving an antibiotic every day, regardless of whether it is injected or oral..
This dosing is not a guess on my part, it comes directly from the manufacturer of Baytril , on Page 4http://www.animalhealth.bayer.com/fileadmin/media/baytril/pdf_companion/kap8.pdf
One of my Jackson's chams acquired an infection this way.
His foot was swollen, as the infection had not yet progressed to the rest of the leg.
My chams' vet squeezed the foot to get the thick, cheesy pus to come out through the toe where the infection had begun and the nail had been lost.
He instructed me to do the same the next day and, if need be, the following day, too.
My cham was given oral Baytril for several weeks, which cleared up the infection.
An infection that has caused the entire leg to be swollen may require even more aggressive treatment but not being a vet, I do not know for certain nor do I know what that treatment might be.
You did not say what medicine, if any, the vet gave you to administer or what else he told you to do, if anything.
If the only treatment has been a single shot of Baytril, I would quickly find someone else with more medical knowledge about chameleons to treat the poor cham.
What troubles me is that your vet has told you things that are 100% known to be untrue and, unless I've misunderstood, your cham seemed far better before treatment than afterwards.
Vets spend very little time in veterinary school learning about reptile medicine.
Unless they have specialized in it, they often have only a very general knowledge of it.
Feel free to send me a PM or email by clicking on my username.
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werecat
Established Member
While I don't completely understand the metabolism of Jackson's chameleons, I have read that their supplement needs (calcium, D3, and vitamins) is different from other chams due to their living at higher elevations. That is why others are recommending backing off on the D3. Jackson's are especially sensitive to over-supplementation. Also, you said you've been taking him out for some natural sun in the mornings. During these outside trips he has the opportunity to manufacture his own vitamin D. I would not give more than what is recommended in the care sheets, even if that seems counter-intutive.
You said your husband soaked him for a bit. I'm not sure what you were hoping to achieve with this, but I've read a lot of disagreement as to whether or not this is a productive method of hydration. Some say that chams can take in water through their vent while others have stated this is a myth. In my opinion it is very stressful to the cham (even if he acted calm). If you are trying to help with his hydration try the shower method of putting him on a plant in the shower and setting the shower head to spray lukewarm water on the wall near the plant. The water will bounce off the wall giving your cham a nice long indirect misting.
I'm agree with others who have said your vet does not seem to know about chameleons. I know you don't need your confidence undermined further, but if I were you I'd try searching for a new one. There are several members in Texas so I'm sure there is a reliable cham vet that someone will know of.
Most of all, don't beat yourself up. I know that's hard. Just keep moving forward giving your little guy the best care you can. Read the Jackson's care sheet here on the forums, keep giving your guy those nice morning trips in the sunshine, try the shower method and extra long misting sessions for hydration. Do post pictures since that will help the experienced members to advise you.
I wish you and your cham the best of luck!
You said your husband soaked him for a bit. I'm not sure what you were hoping to achieve with this, but I've read a lot of disagreement as to whether or not this is a productive method of hydration. Some say that chams can take in water through their vent while others have stated this is a myth. In my opinion it is very stressful to the cham (even if he acted calm). If you are trying to help with his hydration try the shower method of putting him on a plant in the shower and setting the shower head to spray lukewarm water on the wall near the plant. The water will bounce off the wall giving your cham a nice long indirect misting.
I'm agree with others who have said your vet does not seem to know about chameleons. I know you don't need your confidence undermined further, but if I were you I'd try searching for a new one. There are several members in Texas so I'm sure there is a reliable cham vet that someone will know of.
Most of all, don't beat yourself up. I know that's hard. Just keep moving forward giving your little guy the best care you can. Read the Jackson's care sheet here on the forums, keep giving your guy those nice morning trips in the sunshine, try the shower method and extra long misting sessions for hydration. Do post pictures since that will help the experienced members to advise you.
I wish you and your cham the best of luck!
Regarding the swollen leg...I'm not a vet but from my years of experience with chameleons and without having seen a photo it sound like it's either gout or an infection. If it's an infection it needs to be cleaned out and the pus tested to see what bacteria is involve so the chameleon can be put on the appropriate antibiotic. Gout is hard to treat.
Regarding giving D3 and vitamin A and the connection to MBD...
Calcium,vitamin A, vitamin D3, and phosphorous all need to be in balance for good bone health and for other things in the chameleon's system as well.
Since most feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous its important to dust the insects at most feedings with a phosphorous - free calcium powder to make up for it.
We dust once a month for Jacksons with a phosphorous - free calcium D3 powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving the chameleon to produce the rest of the D3 it needs from its exposure to the UVB. D3 from supplements (and injections) can build up in the system and lead to overdoses. This overdose leads to bone issues. D3 from exposure to UVB won't likely build up in the system as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB when it wants to.
We dust once a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system and lead to overdoses. His leaves the owner free to give the chameleon a little prEformed vitamin A if it's needed. PrEformed vitamin A can build up in the system and lead to overdoses.so you want to be very careful with it. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system since they are converted as needed.
In addition to this...D3 and vitamin A are somewhat antagonistic to each other and need to be in balance. Too much D3 or vitamin A building up in the system can lead to organ damage.
In addition to supplementing, it's important to provide the appropriate temperatures to aid in proper digestion and thus indirectly in the nutrient absorption.
It's also important to gutload/feed your insects well so that the chameleon has a nutritious diet. Crickets, locusts, superworms, roaches can be fed/gutloaded with a wide assortment of greens such as collards, escarole, endive, dandelion greens, kale, etc and veggies such as carrots, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, etc.
Here's a Site that might help...
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502...rnals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html
Hope this helps.
Regarding giving D3 and vitamin A and the connection to MBD...
Calcium,vitamin A, vitamin D3, and phosphorous all need to be in balance for good bone health and for other things in the chameleon's system as well.
Since most feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous its important to dust the insects at most feedings with a phosphorous - free calcium powder to make up for it.
We dust once a month for Jacksons with a phosphorous - free calcium D3 powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving the chameleon to produce the rest of the D3 it needs from its exposure to the UVB. D3 from supplements (and injections) can build up in the system and lead to overdoses. This overdose leads to bone issues. D3 from exposure to UVB won't likely build up in the system as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB when it wants to.
We dust once a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system and lead to overdoses. His leaves the owner free to give the chameleon a little prEformed vitamin A if it's needed. PrEformed vitamin A can build up in the system and lead to overdoses.so you want to be very careful with it. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system since they are converted as needed.
In addition to this...D3 and vitamin A are somewhat antagonistic to each other and need to be in balance. Too much D3 or vitamin A building up in the system can lead to organ damage.
In addition to supplementing, it's important to provide the appropriate temperatures to aid in proper digestion and thus indirectly in the nutrient absorption.
It's also important to gutload/feed your insects well so that the chameleon has a nutritious diet. Crickets, locusts, superworms, roaches can be fed/gutloaded with a wide assortment of greens such as collards, escarole, endive, dandelion greens, kale, etc and veggies such as carrots, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, etc.
Here's a Site that might help...
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502...rnals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html
Hope this helps.
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