Oustalet’s chameleon receptive vs gravid colors

[scags]

I’m just wondering if anyone has some experience with oustaleti they could share.
I keep finding conflicting information about female coloration.

Do they display certain colors when receptive?
Do they display certain colors when gravid?

For a long time I assumed the lime green colors were indicative of receptive.
But I’m not entirely sure.

My female has begun to show pastel greens with red stripes. Not sure if this means receptive, gravid, or what.

Does anyone know?

 

[kinyonga]

Do you have a male too?

This might help…
”A female who is not carrying eggs is bright green with white spots down her sides. Once breeding has completed and the female is gravid (carrying eggs), she turns greenish or tan with ribbons of red”…
https://becomingcliche.wordpress.com/tag/furcifer-oustaleti/


You might want to read this too…
”F. oustaleti is known to regularly consume the fruit of Grangeria porosa, Chassalia princei, and Malleastrum gracile, and will do so even during the wet season, suggesting that fruit is not consumed just to obtain water”…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malagasy_giant_chameleon

 

[scags]

Do you have a male too?

This might help…
”A female who is not carrying eggs is bright green with white spots down her sides. Once breeding has completed and the female is gravid (carrying eggs), she turns greenish or tan with ribbons of red”…
https://becomingcliche.wordpress.com/tag/furcifer-oustaleti/


You might want to read this too…
”F. oustaleti is known to regularly consume the fruit of Grangeria porosa, Chassalia princei, and Malleastrum gracile, and will do so even during the wet season, suggesting that fruit is not consumed just to obtain water”…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malagasy_giant_chameleon

Hi Kinyonga!
Always a wealth of knowledge and helpful links. I appreciate it.

I currently have 2 males and 1 female, and will be attaining another female soon.
But for the life of me, the males show zero interest in the female. I currently have their enclosures side by side, in an attempt to allow them to see each other without physical interaction.

The males never head bob, and will even flee the female if they see her. The closest thing I saw to “interest” was when I placed the female and male into my greenhouse and let them free roam for a while. The male changed to more dramatic colors and seemed to follow the female around- but never head bobbed or made any attempt to breed.

I have read that article/blog post where once gravid the female will turn greenish with red stripes, but then I’ve had a couple people tell me the female will turn black and red and rusty orange when gravid. So I wasn’t sure if there was a definitive answer.

Perhaps they successfully locked when I wasn’t watching them in my greenhouse? Or perhaps she has become gravid just at the sight of the male being the in enclosure next to hers.
The crazy part is that she has tried to get into his enclosure on multiple occasions. Like she I eager to breed, but the male could care less.

I figured maybe I’ll have better luck as things warm up this spring

 

[kinyonga]

What happens when the two males see each other but can’t see her?
What happens when the two males can see each other and her at the same time?

 

[scags]

What happens when the two males see each other but can’t see her?
What happens when the two males can see each other and her at the same time?

I haven’t tried letting the two males see her while also seeing each other.

But I have tried letting the males see each other. They flee from each other. When they were younger they would get puffed up and change color. Now they just try to run away from each other.

Cause I thought seeing each might spur some of that territorial testosterone- and make them want to breed. But nope. Maybe tomorrow I will try to let all 3 of them see each other.

 

[scags]

Well. Tried the greenhouse again today. Allowed them all to roam freely. They seemed indifferent to each other. No males fighting, no gaping, no head bobbing.
Not sure what the deal is with this species.

I’ve bred pardalis and Verrucosus- zero issues. They want to breed year round. For whatever reason I strike out when it comes to Oustalet’s.

 

[kinyonga]

You might like to see this…
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/oustaleti-breeding-pics-videos.31809/

 

[scags]

You might like to see this…
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/oustaleti-breeding-pics-videos.31809/

That’s a great find! The video quality isn’t great, but it’s good enough. I can see the female is green during mating, and then much more contrasty and reddish afterwards.
Wish the photos on the post were still available. Oh well.
I think that answers my question mostly.

I had assumed the greens were signals of receptive, and the photos I see online of females that were reddish, white, and black were gravid or unreceptive.

My female is kind of hanging in the middle somewhere. Not quite that distinctive lime green, but not deep blacks and reds. So not sure what her status is.

A couple years ago I had another male and female, the female was very green (what I believe to be receptive) and the wild caught male I had who was in perfect health, refused to mate with her. No interest. Ended up sending them to my brother who lives in another state after months and months of trying.
He was not successful either. They were kept in large outdoor enclosures in southern Florida, and still no dice.

Here is a pic of my female today in the green house. Her colors are kind of blah- I’m guessing she unreceptive. She is well fed, adult sized, no health issues.

 

[kinyonga]

I think there’s a lot more to getting some of them to breed/mate than we are all paying attention to. IMHO, some breed throughout the year while others are seasonal breeders. Some need a trigger (like rainfall, weather changes or maybe even diet changes), IMHO, to put them into the breeding “mood”.

 

[scags]

That’s a great find! The video quality isn’t great, but it’s good enough. I can see the female is green during mating, and then much more contrasty and reddish afterwards.
Wish the photos on the post were still available. Oh well.
I think that answers my question mostly.

I had assumed the greens were signals of receptive, and the photos I see online of females that were reddish, white, and black were gravid or unreceptive.

My female is kind of hanging in the middle somewhere. Not quite that distinctive lime green, but not deep blacks and reds. So not sure what her status is.

A couple years ago I had another male and female, the female was very green (what I believe to be receptive) and the wild caught male I had who was in perfect health, refused to mate with her. No interest. Ended up sending them to my brother who lives in another state after months and months of trying.
He was not successful either. They were kept in large outdoor enclosures in southern Florida, and still no dice.

Here is a pic of my female today in the green house. Her colors are kind of blah. She is well fed, adult sized, no health issues.

I think there’s a lot more to getting some of them to breed/mate than we are all paying attention to. IMHO, some breed throughout the year while others are seasonal breeders. Some need a trigger (like rainfall, weather changes or maybe even diet changes), IMHO, to put them into the breeding “mood”.

Agreed. I do think time of year plays a huge role, as well as seasonal changes. And maybe I haven’t given them enough of that.
That’s been my theory for a while. That some kind of an environmental trigger just isn’t being met for my oustaleti.

That’s why I’m hoping as things warm up in Southern California, and I can eventually move them to outdoor enclosures, maybe I’ll have better luck.

According to adchams verrucosus is a seasonal breeder only having 1-2 clutches per year. However, mine bred all year round. And my female produced around 5 clutches in 1 year. Only a couple of which were fertile, as I only bred her twice, and she didn’t seem to retain the sperm- which I found odd.
But anytime my male saw her, he would begin to head bob. Inside, outside, etc. and despite being retired and looking a little thin, he will still give her some head bobs if he sees my female.
So I think there are a lot of variables at play. Some males are just eager breeders. While others may need some sort of seasonal change.

 

[kinyonga]

Agreed. I do think time of year plays a huge role, as well as seasonal changes. And maybe I haven’t given them enough of that.
That’s been my theory for a while. That some kind of an environmental trigger just isn’t being met for my oustaleti.

That’s why I’m hoping as things warm up in Southern California, and I can eventually move them to outdoor enclosures, maybe I’ll have better luck.

According to adchams verrucosus is a seasonal breeder only having 1-2 clutches per year. However, mine bred all year round. And my female produced around 5 clutches in 1 year. Only a couple of which were fertile, as I only bred her twice, and she didn’t seem to retain the sperm- which I found odd.
But anytime my male saw her, he would begin to head bob. Inside, outside, etc. and despite being retired and looking a little thin, he will still give her some head bobs if he sees my female.
So I think there are a lot of variables at play. Some males are just eager breeders. While others may need some sort of seasonal change.

So maybe a seasonal breeder breeds more often if certain climate variations aren’t met?

Also, maybe sperm production/retention needs certain variations as well?

 

[scags]

Ok

So maybe a seasonal breeder breeds more often if certain climate variations aren’t met?

Also, maybe sperm production/retention needs certain variations as well?

all fantastic questions! While my panthers seem to retain sperm every time, the Verrucosus didn’t seem to. This might be environmentally related, or conditions were such that sperm isn’t retained so that new genes can be obtained?

A lot of things I suppose we still need to learn about chameleons, especially less commonly bred species.
I messaged someone from the Czech Republic who has bred several generations of oustaleti, but I’ve yet to hear back.

Thank you again for the info and thoughts!

 

[kinyonga]

No problem.