Overdue eggs

[jasond]

Took my chameleon (Fiona, 5 months old) to the vets second time this month. The first time because she was going nuts and clawing at the cage, digging, and generally trying to get out (and a lot more social then normal -eager to climb on my shoulder). Also, she wasn’t eating. They said she was gravid and acting that way because she was about to lay eggs and that they should come along soon. But two weeks went by and nothing happened, though she did start eating a bunch and is mellow again (no more clawing and digging). So I took her back today and the did an X Ray (attached, pretty wild and fascinating). You can see there’s a ton of eggs waiting to come out. The vets said if they don’t come out in a week they’ll give her an injection of oxytocin to help stimulate the process. Just posting this if anyone’s interested in the cool X-ray or has had a similar situation.

 

[elizaann2]

Hello and welcome! What a beautiful girl you have. She looks like she has a LOT of eggs. Our girls bodies tend to overcharge when they are feed too much and are kept at too high temperatures. You'll want her clutches to be closer to 20 eggs, with 30 eggs being a bit much.

Weird but related questions that I have?
- Do you have a lay bin? If so, please share a picture of it
- Will you share a picture of her enclosure including the lights on the top?
- What kind of UVB does she get?
- What is her supplement schedule?
- What is her feeding schedule?
- What temperatures do you keep her at? Please include her basking and ambient temperatures

 

[kinyonga]

First of all, I’m not a vet…I speak from experience and what I’ve learned along the way…and can only give my best opinion.

It does seem to be eggs she’s carrying…eggs are oval, follicles are round.
and way more than we’d like to see in her. Dig she have a proper egg bin in her cage?

I'm expecting she’s egg bound since she’s not digging anymore…and if she is past that point of laying, the oxytocin won’t likely help. She will need spaying before she gets too weak for it to be done, sadly.

 

[jasond]

Hello and welcome! What a beautiful girl you have. She looks like she has a LOT of eggs. Our girls bodies tend to overcharge when they are feed too much and are kept at too high temperatures. You'll want her clutches to be closer to 20 eggs, with 30 eggs being a bit much.

Weird but related questions that I have?
- Do you have a lay bin? If so, please share a picture of it
- Will you share a picture of her enclosure including the lights on the top?
- What kind of UVB does she get?
- What is her supplement schedule?
- What is her feeding schedule?
- What temperatures do you keep her at? Please include her basking and ambient temperatures

Hi and thanks for the reply! Yeah I think I may feed her too much. I feed her everyday, principally with crickets, where I put in about 7 or so in the morning, and dust with calcium. I also have a mixture of some vitamins and calcium which I dust with once a week. I also give her super worms and Dubia roaches every few days instead of the crickets, which I add to that feeder you see at the top of the picture I’ve attached. I also put some lettuce and greens in the feeder but I haven’t seen her eat those, her preferring to eat the leaves of the Money tree instead.

I use a 75 watt bulb for her basking spot, which doesn’t exceed 92 degrees (regulated with thermostat), and the ambient temp is around 75. I use a ReptiSun T5 15 W bulb, though I’m going to order an Arcadia 7% T5 bulb today. I also have a micro LED lamp, and the enclosure is right next to the window, which I open during the day to let in natural air and some sun in (permitting it’s warm enough out - I live in San Diego, so this is ok most of the time).

Her enclosure is a ReptiZoo 36 x 18 x 18 screen enclosure (though I’m getting a larger one soon), which has a money tree, two pathos plants, and another at the front in the picture but I forget the name.

I keep the humidity in the cage below 30-40% during the day and above 70% at night, where I use a misting system twice a day for four minutes (30 min after lights go off and 30 min before the my come on) and also run a fogger at night. I have shower curtain plastic on two of the sides and at night I affix the other two sides with removal plastic sheets I have set up, to maintain the higher humidity at night.

I added a pot with sand and some bark on top a few weeks ago, but she kind of avoided it, so I dumped it out at the bottom of the cage where the large plant is at the front in the picture (and temporarily removed the plant). She did start digging in the sand after this but it was mainly her erratic escape behavior and didn’t seem like egg laying behavior. As I mentioned, she’s now back to her more mellow self and is eating again so hasn’t been walking to the bottom and digging and clawing, but the vet said try putting in a talk terra cotta pot again with a lot of sand, so I’ll do that.

Thanks for the response and hope this info helps!

 

[Stlcards514]

Thanks for sharing the x-ray picture, it is an awesome view to see. Super rare especially since she has eggs Beautiful Cham and good luck, definitely keep us updated

 

[Camiezone]

Did u say she's just 5 months old?

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. I have a few suggestions to help.
Hi and thanks for the reply! Yeah I think I may feed her too much. I feed her everyday, principally with crickets, where I put in about 7 or so in the morning, and dust with calcium. After she’s laid her eggs (providing she doesn’t need surgical spaying) you’ll feed her well for a couple of days and then feed her 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week, plus occasional treats. Giving a variety of well fed and cared for insects is best. Adding some graphics below. I also have a mixture of some vitamins and calcium which I dust with once a week. You want to lightly dust (no little buggy snowmen) with a phosphorus free calcium powder at every feeding except for one every other week. That one feeding you’ll want to use either ReptiVite with D3 or Repashy calcium plus LoD. I also give her super worms and Dubia roaches every few days instead of the crickets, which I add to that feeder you see at the top of the picture I’ve attached. I also put some lettuce and greens in the feeder Even though veiled may eat plants and produce, they have no need for it and lack the ability to digest it. We don’t really know why they eat their plants. but I haven’t seen her eat those, her preferring to eat the leaves of the Money tree instead.

I use a 75 watt bulb for her basking spot, which doesn’t exceed 92 degrees this is way too hot. You don’t want her basking temp to exceed 80. This helps regulate her metabolism and works with the reduced feeding to limit egg production. (regulated with thermostat), and the ambient temp is around 75. I use a ReptiSun T5 15 W bulb, Screw in uvb is not adequate at all for chameleons though I’m going to order an Arcadia 7% T5 bulb today. I’m afraid the Arcadia 7% isn’t the correct uvb. You need to order the Arcadia Pro T5 6%. The 7% fixture and bulb are created to really only work with each other and neither will work properly with any other components. I also have a micro LED lamp, Is this for your plants? and the enclosure is right next to the window, which I open during the day to let in natural air and some sun in (permitting it’s warm enough out - I live in San Diego, so this is ok most of the time).

Her enclosure is a ReptiZoo 36 x 18 x 18 screen enclosure (though I’m getting a larger one soon), Yes. The minimum standard is a 2x2x4’, but if you can go bigger than that, go for it. which has a money tree, two pathos plants, and another at the front in the picture but I forget the name. You want to remove any fake plants. You can hang those on the outside to give your cute girl more privacy. Adding more live plants is a good idea. Pothos, philodendron, tradescantia, etc are all great and super easy. Definitely add more branches and vines. Avoid the black Exo Terra vines - they shed tiny particles that somehow always end up in sensitive little eyes. Fluker’s makes nice fake vines. You can use real branches from any tree that doesn’t have sap or aroma…avoid the pine/firs, eucalyptus, etc. Oak is perfect. Just wash, rinse very well and use.

I keep the humidity in the cage below 30-40% during the day Perfect above 70% at night, where I use a misting system twice a day for four minutes (30 min after lights go off and 30 min before the my come on) and also run a fogger at night. Ok, but what are your temps at night? You only want to boost the humidity if your temps are well below at least 68-70 or you can risk respiratory infection. I have shower curtain plastic on two of the sides and at night I affix the other two sides with removal plastic sheets I have set up, to maintain the higher humidity at night.

I added a pot with sand and some bark on top a few weeks ago, but she kind of avoided it, so I dumped it out at the bottom of the cage where the large plant is at the front in the picture (and temporarily removed the plant). She did start digging in the sand after this but it was mainly her erratic escape behavior and didn’t seem like egg laying behavior. As I mentioned, she’s now back to her more mellow self and is eating again so hasn’t been walking to the bottom and digging and clawing, but the vet said try putting in a talk terra cotta pot again with a lot of sand, so I’ll do that. My girls have always preferred larger plastic bins of at least 12” long and wide…Deep too. I drill some tiny drainage holes in the bottom so they don’t become muddy and fill to about 5-6’ deep with washed play sand. It needs to be kept moist enough to hold a tunnel without collapsing. Of course, make sure she has at least a couple of easy ways to get in and out. No bark or anything else on top of the sand. They seem to like having the height enclosing them and making them feel that they and their precious eggs will be safe. Once she starts digging, she needs absolute privacy. If she sees you watching/looking, she may stop digging. It’s best to just cover at least the bottom half of the enclosure with a light sheet. Don’t worry about food. For hydration, you can use a dripper or even just put a few ice cubes on top of the enclosure. I’m not even sure they drink when laying. Do make sure not to block ventilation though. The whole process should take about a couple of days. Once done, she’ll completely cover her tunnel and any test holes she might have made and you’ll find her looking thin, sandy and basking. Warning signs to watch for - dropping eggs where ever, any blood from anywhere, anything sticking out of her vent, eyes closed during the day, staying low/not basking, lethargy, and anything else that you just feel isn’t right. Always listen to your gut feelings.

Thanks for the response and hope this info helps!

 

[jasond]

Thanks for sharing the x-ray picture, it is an awesome view to see. Super rare especially since she has eggs Beautiful Cham and good luck, definitely keep us updated

Thank you! Yeah really fascinating to look at huh? It’s neat to think we basically share the same bones (five fingers, three joints in each, a humorous, ulna radius, etc.)

 

[jasond]

Hi. I have a few suggestions to help.
Hi and thanks for the reply! Yeah I think I may feed her too much. I feed her everyday, principally with crickets, where I put in about 7 or so in the morning, and dust with calcium. After she’s laid her eggs (providing she doesn’t need surgical spaying) you’ll feed her well for a couple of days and then feed her 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week, plus occasional treats. Giving a variety of well fed and cared for insects is best. Adding some graphics below. I also have a mixture of some vitamins and calcium which I dust with once a week. You want to lightly dust (no little buggy snowmen) with a phosphorus free calcium powder at every feeding except for one every other week. That one feeding you’ll want to use either ReptiVite with D3 or Repashy calcium plus LoD. I also give her super worms and Dubia roaches every few days instead of the crickets, which I add to that feeder you see at the top of the picture I’ve attached. I also put some lettuce and greens in the feeder Even though veiled may eat plants and produce, they have no need for it and lack the ability to digest it. We don’t really know why they eat their plants. but I haven’t seen her eat those, her preferring to eat the leaves of the Money tree instead.

I use a 75 watt bulb for her basking spot, which doesn’t exceed 92 degrees this is way too hot. You don’t want her basking temp to exceed 80. This helps regulate her metabolism and works with the reduced feeding to limit egg production. (regulated with thermostat), and the ambient temp is around 75. I use a ReptiSun T5 15 W bulb, Screw in uvb is not adequate at all for chameleons though I’m going to order an Arcadia 7% T5 bulb today. I’m afraid the Arcadia 7% isn’t the correct uvb. You need to order the Arcadia Pro T5 6%. The 7% fixture and bulb are created to really only work with each other and neither will work properly with any other components. I also have a micro LED lamp, Is this for your plants? and the enclosure is right next to the window, which I open during the day to let in natural air and some sun in (permitting it’s warm enough out - I live in San Diego, so this is ok most of the time).

Her enclosure is a ReptiZoo 36 x 18 x 18 screen enclosure (though I’m getting a larger one soon), Yes. The minimum standard is a 2x2x4’, but if you can go bigger than that, go for it. which has a money tree, two pathos plants, and another at the front in the picture but I forget the name. You want to remove any fake plants. You can hang those on the outside to give your cute girl more privacy. Adding more live plants is a good idea. Pothos, philodendron, tradescantia, etc are all great and super easy. Definitely add more branches and vines. Avoid the black Exo Terra vines - they shed tiny particles that somehow always end up in sensitive little eyes. Fluker’s makes nice fake vines. You can use real branches from any tree that doesn’t have sap or aroma…avoid the pine/firs, eucalyptus, etc. Oak is perfect. Just wash, rinse very well and use.

I keep the humidity in the cage below 30-40% during the day Perfect above 70% at night, where I use a misting system twice a day for four minutes (30 min after lights go off and 30 min before the my come on) and also run a fogger at night. Ok, but what are your temps at night? You only want to boost the humidity if your temps are well below at least 68-70 or you can risk respiratory infection. I have shower curtain plastic on two of the sides and at night I affix the other two sides with removal plastic sheets I have set up, to maintain the higher humidity at night.

I added a pot with sand and some bark on top a few weeks ago, but she kind of avoided it, so I dumped it out at the bottom of the cage where the large plant is at the front in the picture (and temporarily removed the plant). She did start digging in the sand after this but it was mainly her erratic escape behavior and didn’t seem like egg laying behavior. As I mentioned, she’s now back to her more mellow self and is eating again so hasn’t been walking to the bottom and digging and clawing, but the vet said try putting in a talk terra cotta pot again with a lot of sand, so I’ll do that. My girls have always preferred larger plastic bins of at least 12” long and wide…Deep too. I drill some tiny drainage holes in the bottom so they don’t become muddy and fill to about 5-6’ deep with washed play sand. It needs to be kept moist enough to hold a tunnel without collapsing. Of course, make sure she has at least a couple of easy ways to get in and out. No bark or anything else on top of the sand. They seem to like having the height enclosing them and making them feel that they and their precious eggs will be safe. Once she starts digging, she needs absolute privacy. If she sees you watching/looking, she may stop digging. It’s best to just cover at least the bottom half of the enclosure with a light sheet. Don’t worry about food. For hydration, you can use a dripper or even just put a few ice cubes on top of the enclosure. I’m not even sure they drink when laying. Do make sure not to block ventilation though. The whole process should take about a couple of days. Once done, she’ll completely cover her tunnel and any test holes she might have made and you’ll find her looking thin, sandy and basking. Warning signs to watch for - dropping eggs where ever, any blood from anywhere, anything sticking out of her vent, eyes closed during the day, staying low/not basking, lethargy, and anything else that you just feel isn’t right. Always listen to your gut feelings.

Thanks for the response and hope this info helps!

Great and thanks for all the tips! I’ll get back to these tonight and make sure to make adjustments per what you said (changing the heat bulb now though). I actually don’t use the screw in uv - it’s currently the strip kind (t5) and I had a typo with the one I ordered - I did indeed order the 6%. Thanks for all the help!

 

[jasond]

Did u say she's just 5 months old?

Yep, a little over 5 months old (~5.5 mo)

 

[jasond]

First of all, I’m not a vet…I speak from experience and what I’ve learned along the way…and can only give my best opinion.

It does seem to be eggs she’s carrying…eggs are oval, follicles are round.
and way more than we’d like to see in her. Dig she have a proper egg bin in her cage?

I'm expecting she’s egg bound since she’s not digging anymore…and if she is past that point of laying, the oxytocin won’t likely help. She will need spaying before she gets too weak for it to be done, sadly.

Yikes, thanks for the advice. I’ll tell the vet this ASAP and get this taken care of.

 

[kinyonga]

@MissSkittles said…”Warning signs to watch for“ …”eyes closed during the day, staying low/not basking, lethargy, and anything else that you just feel isn’t right. Always listen to your gut feelings.”…just be aware that by the time she gets to these symptoms she may be past the point of saving her from dying. You need to have her spayed before she gets too weak to survive the surgery.

 

[MissSkittles]

Of course I forgot to add these.

 

[jasond]

Yeah I just called the vet again and hope to get in today or tomorrow to get them removed and get her spayed.

@MissSkittles said…”Warning signs to watch for“ …”eyes closed during the day, staying low/not basking, lethargy, and anything else that you just feel isn’t right. Always listen to your gut feelings.”…just be aware that by the time she gets to these symptoms she may be past the point of saving her from dying. You need to have her spayed before she gets too weak to survive the surgery.

 

[Camiezone]

Yep, a little over 5 months old (~5.5 mo)

Are you absolutely sure about that age? I'm thinking she looks at least 1-1.5 years old. And they usually won't develop eggs fertile or nonfertile until over 8-10 months. Even if being overweight n overheated. I'm no vet, but her size and coloration...
Did u hatch her?
Best of luck with her, I sincerely hope all goes well and she gets to have a long healthy life.

 

[jasond]

Are you absolutely sure about that age? I'm thinking she looks at least 1-1.5 years old. And they usually won't develop eggs fertile or nonfertile until over 8-10 months. Even if being overweight n overheated. I'm no vet, but her size and coloration...
Did u hatch her?
Best of luck with her, I sincerely hope all goes well and she gets to have a long healthy life.

Thanks! Yeah I got her in beginning of Sep at reptile store, and the said she was about a month old. Attached is a picture of her right after I got her. I’m taking her to the vet ASAP to get this taken care of. (Those are Ackie monitors in the background - that’s not her cage )

 

[jasond]

Scheduled to get her spayed tomorrow. $1800 .

 

[Camiezone]

Wow. That's alot. I can't say that I would/have the financial ability to have that done. I think it's great that you can. Judging from that picture of her on your hand, I'd say she prob was atleast 6 months give or take. I breed panthers, but I know several of the replies, you've gotten, is from veiled owners @@MissSkittles @elizaann2 @kinyonga
Attached is a pic of one of my 1 month Olds as reference

 

[MissSkittles]

Thanks! Yeah I got her in beginning of Sep at reptile store, and the said she was about a month old. Attached is a picture of her right after I got her. I’m taking her to the vet ASAP to get this taken care of. (Those are Ackie monitors in the background - that’s not her cage )

I’m not the greatest at guessing ages, but from that pic I’d guess she was closer to maybe about 3 months old.

 

[Camiezone]