Panicking new owner worried about MBD

jajeanpierre

jajeanpierre

Chameleon Enthusiast
Veiled Female, unknown age, probably 4 months old. Purchased from PetSmart Nov. 13th weighing 28 grams. Current weight 40 grams.

Owner: This is my first chameleon, so very much a newbie.

Diet: Crickets gut loaded with carrots mostly, all she can eat dusted with plain calcium no phosphorus, no D3 every feeding, Calcium with D3 once every two weeks; a few meal worms a week dusted in calcium; a few soldier fly larvae once or twice a week, gut loaded with carrots mostly. Am looking into getting other bugs. Several times a week, she climbs on a big Hibiscus bush in a window but I've never seen her eat anything vegetable. Water supplied by misting and leaving plants and glass sides with drops of water on them two or more times a day. Have yet to install dripper.

Light: Repti Sun 5.0 compact, 60w Zoo Med blue basking light, 75w infrared heat. Everything turned off at night. Several times a week, she is in a big Hibiscus in front of an open window so gets real sunlight unfiltered by glass, with only a screen separating her from the sun.

Enclosure: Mostly glass 16"x16"x26". Screen on one side and screen top. Living ficus--Home Depot's version of a bonsai--fake vines and branches for furnishings. I do have a 24"x24"x48" Reptibreeze screen cage not yet set up.

Temps/Humidity: Varies. Currently 52% and have not yet misted the cage. I mist several times per day so she can drink. No dripper installed yet but will put one in. Basking temps not as high as I would like, but I think are okay. I just turned on the lights this morning and measured her temps on her back with an infrared temp gauge and it was over 77. Temp reading near top but not under lights is 77.4. Night temps low to mid 60s.

Handling: Minimal, just to weigh her almost every morning, cage cleaning, or moving to free range on the hibiscus in the window. I'm very careful handling her so she releases her feet, tail and toes herself--I never pull her off anything.

Concern: When I weighed her this morning, her left ankle looked slightly bigger than her right ankle. I took a bunch of pictures on both sides trying to show the difference. She did not show any signs of MBD when she came, but has grown a lot since I bought her. I worry that if she was deficient in D3/calcium when I bought her but not showing any signs of MBD, maybe her fast growth rate might have pushed her over the edge.

What I think I am seeing might be normal development of a pudgy, growing girl. She moves normally, but I don't see her moving around a lot. She must move around since the crickets I put in disappear and she has to hunt them down. She really is as plump and round as the pictures show. Certainly she is a little puffed up, but the pictures look like I see in the cage when she is calm.

What is the normal growth rate for a Veiled her age? Can anyone guesstimate her age?

I hope this link works. These pictures were taken this morning:

http://imgur.com/a/UsKKx

Thanks.
 
JamesBryan said:
How much do you feed her per day? She does look quite chunky.
Click to expand...

Yes, she has gotten a little porky.

I feed her all she wants. I don't know how many crickets. I just look in her cage and if I can't see any, I put more in. Even if I knew the exact number, it would all depend because the crickets vary so much in size.

She's young, so I am not worried about her cycling, yet, but maybe I should cut her food down. I am going on the assumption that the nutrition/lighting she got at PetSmart before I bought her a month ago might have been of very low quality. On one hand, I want to give her extra nutrition, but on the other I know over feeding young animals can cause all kinds of skeleton/joint issues later on in life.

Is there an optimum growth rate?

How many crickets that are medium/large (1/2 or 3/4 inch?) should a 40-gram porky baby girl eat a day. She's mostly been fed the small crickets that are sometimes almost miniscule in size. Once I run out of the small crickets, I'll probably just buy the bigger ones since the bigger ones are all that my local pet shop sells and I'm all for supporting small, locally-owned businesses.
 
ZiggyStardust said:
She looks gravid to me....

Do you have a laying bin in your enclosure??
Click to expand...

How can that be? She is just a baby! When she first came to me she was only 28 grams and the more outgoing, bigger (ate more) of the two in the Pestsmart cage. She only has her baby colors.

Oh, please be mistaken! She only weighs 40 grams and is only 10 inches from the tip of her nose to the tip of her tail.

When is the earliest (age and size) that they could lay eggs?
 
JamesBryan, don't they have to show some mature colors? She just looks like a baby.

When I first got her, some here on this forum suggested she was 3 to 4 months old. If they were right, she's 4 to 5 months old, so I guess old enough.

How can you tell she is just fat and not gravid? If she's fat, I want to start dropping quantity, keeping temps low (which I think they are) and just making her life a little harder. That's not how I want to care for if she is gravid.
 
I think if she's not showing the signs of being gravid like not eating as much and hunting round the bottom of the cage for a spot to lay eggs, then she's probably just fat.
 
I'm starting to feel a lot more relieved. She eats and is up high. I never see her down unless she is hunting.

She was a really funny color one day about 10 days after I bought her. I took her outside for some real sun and probably stressed her a lot. She stopped eating for a few days. The next day she was a very dark purple. Link to picture below. She's never been that color again. I blame the stress she was under the day before but really don't have a clue.

http://imgur.com/2AmpvfT
 
If she is eating and is hydrated, then all looks well.

If she moves down to look for a spot to lay, then that's your sign.
 
I only put in two "large" crickets today. I'll let her get good and hungry (tomorrow morning) before I feed her again. I guess I was making life too easy, worrying that she would stop eating from stress that would be the start of a downward spiral leading to her demise.

After I bought her I went to a reptile shop to buy some things and talked to them about chameleons. They had a cage of really small veiled babies. The shop keeper threw in some little crickets and I was shocked to see those little babies race around the cage hunting them down. My thought until today was, Poor things--they were itty bitty skinny little things and they weren't feeding them enough. I have to change my mind set. I won't feed her unless she runs around hunting rather than lazily snapping up a cricket that gets too close.

I really think she is just fat and lazy because I made her life too easy. I have to remember where she came from. I know the area. It is brutal. I have to think of her more like a Bedouin trying to eke out a living in the desert rather than the big fat American couch potato I was turning her into.

Thanks for your advice.
 
You should have a laying bin in the enclosure.

She looks gravid to me and females can lay infertile eggs without being mated, so it would be a good idea to get a bin in there asap.

Unless you have been drastically over feeding her, then her plumpness is due to eggs.

If you don't want to lose your chameleon through her becoming egg bound then get a bin in there as soon as you can.
 
ZiggyStardust said:
You should have a laying bin in the enclosure.

She looks gravid to me and females can lay infertile eggs without being mated, so it would be a good idea to get a bin in there asap.

Unless you have been drastically over feeding her, then her plumpness is due to eggs.

If you don't want to lose your chameleon through her becoming egg bound then get a bin in there as soon as you can.
Click to expand...

I really appreciate your advice. I think I've been over feeding her. I've been weighing her with a very accurate scale almost every day. Yes, I will set up a laying bin, but I'll also cut back on her food.

Here is a series of pictures taken starting just the day after I bought her:

http://imgur.com/a/ySixM

In the first picture was taken November 14, the day after I bought her. She's all puffed up and not happy with the camera in her face. She weighed 26 grams. You can see her ribs.

The second picture was taken November 23rd, all puffed up and you can see her ribs. She weighed 36 grams.
|
The next two pictures were taken on the scale November 25. She weighed 33 grams. (She had stopped eating for a couple of days after I took her out in the sunlight.) You can see from the tape measure, her body excluding her tail is four inches from nose to vent. That tape is quite close to her. No ribs.

The last picture taken December 9th, she's all puffed up but she is quite plump and round. She weighed 40 grams. No ribs.

Her cage is on my desk so I can monitor her. I'll get a bin set up. I have show chickens, and I've lost favorite hens to laying problems. I do understand the seriousness of her becoming egg bound or even just producing large clutches.
 
I don't think she has MBD. Visually her limbs and joints appear to be normal. She does look pudgy. Very pretty cham.
 
larrodinero said:
I think your over thinking, supply her with the bin and feed her as you were! I have a female Veiled also and they eat quit a bit! It's ok for her to eat, that's what you want! Just give her that egg laying bin! Check out the info on the forum on gravid female Veileds! There are some videos on there as well! The bin is important! Very important!https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/
Click to expand...


I will get a bin ready. I honestly think she is just fat, but what do I know. She has never displayed the colors of a mature female--no yellow anywhere, no blue dots. She's never near the bottom of her cage unless she is actively hunting.

I just bought a new Reptibreeze 24"x24"x48 inch cage that I will be setting up this week. A laying bin will be going in that. In the mean time, I'll set up a laying bin this weekend that will fit in her smaller cage and will be the right size, the right soil and the right humidity--just in case I see her stop eating and/or going to the bottom.

I have read everything I can find on female veileds and one of the things that I keep reading is that an over abundance of heat and food seems to cause them to lay huge clutches several times a year. In their native habitat, they lay smaller clutches once a year. She'll no longer find food quite so easily. She should be happier having to work a little harder for her food, too.
 
jajeanpierre said:
I will get a bin ready. I honestly think she is just fat, but what do I know. She has never displayed the colors of a mature female--no yellow anywhere, no blue dots. She's never near the bottom of her cage unless she is actively hunting.

I just bought a new Reptibreeze 24"x24"x48 inch cage that I will be setting up this week. A laying bin will be going in that. In the mean time, I'll set up a laying bin this weekend that will fit in her smaller cage and will be the right size, the right soil and the right humidity--just in case I see her stop eating and/or going to the bottom.

I have read everything I can find on female veileds and one of the things that I keep reading is that an over abundance of heat and food seems to cause them to lay huge clutches several times a year. In their native habitat, they lay smaller clutches once a year. She'll no longer find food quite so easily. She should be happier having to work a little harder for her food, too.
Click to expand...

I agree, and a large gage will also alow exercise!
 
larrodinero said:
I think your over thinking, supply her with the bin and feed her as you were! I have a female Veiled also and they eat quit a bit! It's ok for her to eat, that's what you want! Just give her that egg laying bin! Check out the info on the forum on gravid female Veileds! There are some videos on there as well! The bin is important! Very important!https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/
Click to expand...

You'll be happy to know the laying bin is in her cage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
How much time does it takes for follicle absoprtion?
Replies
13
Views
337
kinyonga
K
JacksonChamo
Female Jackson's Chameleon, with white raised spot on eye and chest, any ideas?
Replies
2
Views
266
JacksonChamo
JacksonChamo
N
Help, worried about my 3 month old Panther chameleon.
Replies
6
Views
373
Nozomi
N
D
Can't confirm new arrival is eating or drinking
2
Replies
29
Views
2K
dksengineering
D
C
EYE Trouble
2 3
Replies
59
Views
3K
CalamityCrow
CalamityCrow
Back
Top Bottom