Panther Chameleon - Pooping once a month, urates first (hard, but white) resting back legs when basking

[JGGib95]

Hi Guys,
a year and a half ago i bought a Panther Chameleon ( he was 6 months give or take a month) so he is nearly 2 years old.
The past 4 months (also incompleting sheds even if humidity was good) hes only been pooping literally once every month (massive poop with massive urates, urates tend to come out first and when crushed turn to almost dust), apart from that his eyes are normal, and also eating as normal. the past few weeks iv noticed him taking the weight off his back legs more often, probably due to the bloating/pressure. the only changes to husbandry have been the ambient temperature is a lot lower given the cold weather past couple of months.

Dusting schedule was calcium without d3 nearly every feeding, d3 once a month and multivitamin 1/2 times a month
lighting - ZooMed T5 HO 39W 10.0 UVB + Basking Bulb that i swap out from 40-75W

 

[JGGib95]

this is his coloration the past 4/5 months, and then here is a picture from summer

 

[JGGib95]

iv been to the vet a few times, he had an xray done and they said everything was fine, they didnt check for parasites as he wasn't showing any symptoms of such. keep in mind they aren't panther chameleon experts.

 

[DonKeesh]

I will let someone else weigh in but I have seen adult panthers go a while between BMs. I would say weekly or every two weeks is pretty common, you may want to increase hydration and provide a dripper.

 

[JGGib95]

Hi, thank you for the response i appreciate it
ive been hand misting aswell as the mistking i have installed, although iv noticed on occasion he goes nuts for the handspray even goes on two legs to drink sometimes. I used to see him drink frequently off leaves but not so often now. But if urates are white etc eyes are good, what makes you think hydration? just genuinely curious
another note on his coloration, he was quite grey and dull when i first got my hands on him, and took almost 5-6 months before reaching the colors in the picture.
one of the biggest changes since before christmas would be the ambient temperature in my room/outsde.

just trying to get to the bottom of it all, as he's awesome and want to make sure everything is 100%

 

[DonKeesh]

They definitely have been known to go through a winter funk where they get dull and less active. I recommend hydration because that should keep things moving better and it's always my starting point for any observed issues. Also you said he is eager to drink from hand spraying makes me think he might need to be offered water more frequently so try a dripper for a few hours in afternoon and make sure there is plenty of misting in the morning to simulate dew. I try to make sure the cage stays wet for the first 2 hours after lights turn on. Also try to get him outside as much as possible once the weather is appropriate. You may also want to fill out the husbandry info sheet for people to review your complete husbandry.

 

[Beman]

I agree with providing more hydration opportunities. Adding a dripper to the cage for him to have the option to drink during the day. This can be done using a solo plastic cup and put tiny pinholes in the bottom. Set on top of cage add ice cubes for a slow drip or water.

But I am curious as to how much and how often you are feeding him? He is a bit overweight. You can tell from his casque.

What is your basking temp and night temps? What is your daytime humidity and night time humidity?

10.0 UVB bulbs are typically not recommended unless you have a full 11-12 inches between the bottom of the fixture and the branch. Typically we use 5.0 or 6% bulbs with a 8-9 inch distance. Both of these at these distances would provide a 3 uvi at the branch where they rise up. But a 10.0 closer and it looks like he is quite close to the top screen is going to put him into over exposure levels.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Welcome to the forum!

Hi Guys,
a year and a half ago i bought a Panther Chameleon ( he was 6 months give or take a month) so he is nearly 2 years old.
The past 4 months (also incompleting sheds even if humidity was good)

They do slow down a bit as they get older. Mine (19 months) just shed, and it took him a couple days, where it used to take him just a couple hours. This time, it was first the top half, then the bottom half.

hes only been pooping literally once every month (massive poop with massive urates, urates tend to come out first and when crushed turn to almost dust),

Is the rest of it dry or wet? Again, mine has recently slowed down, and they're what we use call in college—'screamin' willies'. When I noticed he hadn't gone in a while, I fed him a couple of horn worms, and a couple days later...

apart from that his eyes are normal, and also eating as normal. the past few weeks iv noticed him taking the weight off his back legs more often, probably due to the bloating/pressure. the only changes to husbandry have been the ambient temperature is a lot lower given the cold weather past couple of months.

How low, and what is his basking temperature? Basking helps them digest; cold slows them down.

I agree some can go through a seasonal pale phase. There have been discussions before about panthers' colors fading.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/search/1702284/?q=colors+fading&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance
(There may be more; I recall some more recent).

ive been hand misting aswell as the mistking i have installed, although iv noticed on occasion he goes nuts for the handspray even goes on two legs to drink sometimes.

This suggests to me that he may not be getting enough drinking water, or...
Do you hand mist with the same water as the mister uses? If not, perhaps he prefers one to the other(?)

What's the mistking schedule? Around "Lights-on"is pretty standard, as is around "Lights-off" but if yours is the kind that tends to turn in early (an hour or so before lights-off), I'm wondering if that morning mist may be the only drinking water he's getting.

In addition to dawn & dusk, I mist at noon just to be sure there's water available when he's awake & active.

I used to see him drink frequently off leaves but not so often now. But if urates are white etc eyes are good, what makes you think hydration? just genuinely curious
another note on his coloration, he was quite grey and dull when i first got my hands on him, and took almost 5-6 months before reaching the colors in the picture.
one of the biggest changes since before christmas would be the ambient temperature in my room/outsde.

Can you be more specific?

just trying to get to the bottom of it all, as he's awesome and want to make sure everything is 100%

Folks here will do their best to try to help you figure it out.

 

[JGGib95]

Is the rest of it dry or wet? Again, mine has recently slowed down, and they're what we use call in college—'screamin' willies'. When I noticed he hadn't gone in a while, I fed him a couple of horn worms, and a couple days later...

The rest of the poop was normal,, he seems to always poop when i take him to the vet.

How low, and what is his basking temperature? Basking helps them digest; cold slows them down.

26-29C, but will test again later today to see exactly how much. (atwork atm) room temperature last few months has been at 17-19C. Summer usually ends up 24C+.

I agree some can go through a seasonal pale phase. There have been discussions before about panthers' colors fading.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/search/1702284/?q=colors+fading&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance
(There may be more; I recall some more recent).


This suggests to me that he may not be getting enough drinking water, or...
Do you hand mist with the same water as the mister uses? If not, perhaps he prefers one to the other(?)

same water

What's the mistking schedule? Around "Lights-on"is pretty standard, as is around "Lights-off" but if yours is the kind that tends to turn in early (an hour or so before lights-off), I'm wondering if that morning mist may be the only drinking water he's getting.

730AM Lights on, 730PM Lights Off, Mist 4 times a day, first mist and last mist of the day are the longest. Sometimes the mister freaks him out abit sometimes it doesnt and he drinks fine. I mean hes been alive in my care 1.3 years so im guessing hes drinking something =P

In addition to dawn & dusk, I mist at noon just to be sure there's water available when he's awake & active.


Can you be more specific?


Folks here will do their best to try to help you figure it out.

 

[JGGib95]

I agree with providing more hydration opportunities. Adding a dripper to the cage for him to have the option to drink during the day. This can be done using a solo plastic cup and put tiny pinholes in the bottom. Set on top of cage add ice cubes for a slow drip or water.

But I am curious as to how much and how often you are feeding him? He is a bit overweight. You can tell from his casque.

i thought this from time to time, but he does seem to stretch and beef up when basking. Apart from looking bloated most of the time, i dont feel like hes been overfed, as hes been underfed on occasion due to lack of feeders in the past. His main diet has always been crickets and superworms.

What is your basking temp and night temps? What is your daytime humidity and night time humidity?

10.0 UVB bulbs are typically not recommended unless you have a full 11-12 inches between the bottom of the fixture and the branch. Typically we use 5.0 or 6% bulbs with a 8-9 inch distance. Both of these at these distances would provide a 3 uvi at the branch where they rise up. But a 10.0 closer and it looks like he is quite close to the top screen is going to put him into over exposure levels.

I ordered a SolarMeter yesterday so hoping to measure it and sort, i think i remember seeing the 10.0 recommended on a chameleon youtuber for good reasons, il upload a picture of my enclosure. I also forgot to mention i was using a compact UVB before i had the strip, i only recently changed.

 

[JGGib95]

Yesterday (when i took him out) + Enclosure (excuse it, changed layout at christmas and havent liked it since)

 

[JGGib95]

I agree with providing more hydration opportunities. Adding a dripper to the cage for him to have the option to drink during the day. This can be done using a solo plastic cup and put tiny pinholes in the bottom. Set on top of cage add ice cubes for a slow drip or water.

But I am curious as to how much and how often you are feeding him? He is a bit overweight. You can tell from his casque.

What is your basking temp and night temps? What is your daytime humidity and night time humidity?

10.0 UVB bulbs are typically not recommended unless you have a full 11-12 inches between the bottom of the fixture and the branch. Typically we use 5.0 or 6% bulbs with a 8-9 inch distance. Both of these at these distances would provide a 3 uvi at the branch where they rise up. But a 10.0 closer and it looks like he is quite close to the top screen is going to put him into over exposure levels.

i also forgot to mention there are areas in the enclosure with shade where he can escape UVB.

 

[Beman]

i thought this from time to time, but he does seem to stretch and beef up when basking. Apart from looking bloated most of the time, i dont feel like hes been overfed, as hes been underfed on occasion due to lack of feeders in the past. His main diet has always been crickets and superworms.

I ordered a SolarMeter yesterday so hoping to measure it and sort, i think i remember seeing the 10.0 recommended on a chameleon youtuber for good reasons, il upload a picture of my enclosure. I also forgot to mention i was using a compact UVB before i had the strip, i only recently changed.

He is chunky... You can tell by the shape of his casque and the girth to his limbs. This is not bloated this is fat. So crickets and superworms are fine. But how many do you give him and how often are you doing this???

A 10.0 can be used but only at the correct distances. I can tell by your pics he is sitting too close to the UVB with a 10.0 bulb. When you get the solarmeter you are looking for a 3.0 UVI level nothing higher.

 

[JGGib95]

3-4 small crickets every other day. Which is why i find it suprising, as i never feed more than that only less.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

The rest of the poop was normal,, he seems to always poop when i take him to the vet.

Handy if he ever needs a fecal test.

26-29C, but will test again later today to see exactly how much. (atwork atm) room temperature last few months has been at 17-19C. Summer usually ends up 24C+.

Those look fine to me.

730AM Lights on, 730PM Lights Off, Mist 4 times a day, first mist and last mist of the day are the longest. Sometimes the mister freaks him out abit sometimes it doesnt and he drinks fine. I mean hes been alive in my care 1.3 years so im guessing hes drinking something =P

Yeah.

Nice enclosure. Muji? What dimensions?

I'm still thinking his color may be the seasonal thing, but dark colors can (not always) indicate stress.

 

[Gingero]

He is chunky... You can tell by the shape of his casque and the girth to his limbs. This is not bloated this is fat. So crickets and superworms are fine. But how many do you give him and how often are you doing this???

A 10.0 can be used but only at the correct distances. I can tell by your pics he is sitting too close to the UVB with a 10.0 bulb. When you get the solarmeter you are looking for a 3.0 UVI level nothing higher.

Exactly my thoughts too.

 

[Beman]

3-4 small crickets every other day. Which is why i find it suprising, as i never feed more than that only less.

So once they reach maturity at a year old food is no longer converted to growth. It becomes dangerous for them to become overweight due to the fat that builds up around their organs. This can not only compromise organ function but in extreme cases cause issues for breathing if the fat is pushing up on their lungs.
Each cham is an individual when it comes to food intake they they should have. For example my almost 4 year old male Veiled only gets fed on Monday's and Thursdays and only 2-3 medium feeders. This keeps his weight stable no loss in grams and no weight gain. Many care guides that give suggested amounts are simply a starting point. If I were to feed him the way it is recommended by chameleon academy which gives a suggested feeding amount of every other day 4-5 feeders my chameleon would be obese. This does not mean their advice is wrong it just means their advice does not work for my chameleon.

If they are in a cage that is below the minimum requirements of 2x2x4feet then this limits their ability to move around. Less exercise then turns the food from fuel into fat.

 

[JGGib95]

Okay, what would you recommend then, 2 crickets every other day?
+ measure uv once solarmeter arrives
+ increased mistings and hydration opportunities

 

[JGGib95]

Okay, what would you recommend then, 2 crickets every other day?
+ measure uv once solarmeter arrives
+ increased mistings and hydration opportunities

And thank you everyone for taking the time out to help

 

[Beman]

Okay, what would you recommend then, 2 crickets every other day?
+ measure uv once solarmeter arrives
+ increased mistings and hydration opportunities

Yeah 2-3 every other day if your using crickets.