Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
OK I was not certain where the origin was. It was definitely a designer name. However I think they list as them separate locals in the video?
Last edited:
Panther ID?
- Thread starter Kent67
- Start date
OK I was not certain where the origin was. It was definitely a designer name. However I think they list as them separate locals in the video?
maxttu
New Member
I haven't seen the video, but perhaps this will help:
http://www.cleanlinechameleons.com/panther-chameleons/ambato-panther-chameleon/
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
They present them differently I'm going to have to check though. The ones on the video's have got much more blue than just blue bars though. They show the actual panther chameleons and the list what local they are. If your interested I recommend watching the video.
maxttu
New Member
I'll deffo have to check that out! Thanks! Is it something that I have to purchase or can I watch it online? I tried YouTube with no luck...
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I'll deffo have to check that out! Thanks! Is it something that I have to purchase or can I watch it online? I tried YouTube with no luck...
You for the most part can only buy it on the Chameleon Forums book store. The video is called Madagascar Primeval Island. The Panther section with about 25 locals is halfway though the video. However, this video is not all about chameleons it is a video about Madagascar. Good luck!
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Ambato is closer to Nosy Faly and Nosy Be than it is to Ambanja distance wise, so unless you're lumping the Nosy Faly, Nosy Be and Ankify with Ambanja as well, Ambato is not technically an Ambanja. I have a number of photos of this locale from when I was there (at the time they were only known as "Turquoise Blue" and "Blue Diamond" panthers in captivity), but only seem to have crappy scans on my computer. I'll have to pull them out and scan them at some point.
Chris
Texas Ranger
Avid Member
That is true I have tryed to make that point several times. Ambato is its own locale. The UK and Germany and other countries recognize this but here in the usa everyone want to put chams that look close the locale they know in the same group like ambato and ambanja and ankify all seemed to be labled ambanja when they are not all ambanja.
I will post a thread soon on my male and his offspring IMO they are all a 100% Ambato I have ch ambanjas and wc ambanjas and they look close but not the same as my Ambato but I also I am guilty of selling my ambatos as ambanja because no one seemed to know the differents and I would explain it and they would come back with oh its a fancy ambanja I couldnt win and they still posted there babies as ambanja.
Oh and Kent I am going to guess nosy be or nosy faly or a cross of the two.
coldbloodedAL
Avid Member
^^^
This is why I said that... No one recognizes them as a separate locale. Not even all foreign countries. I have seen breeders of UK and Germany both say exactly what i said.
If they are indeed a separate locale, GREAT!
Sad part is we will likely never establish many of the other locales here simply because they are not recognized by so many.
I'd give a few extremities for a nice group of Nosy Boraha though
Have you been to St. Marie, Chris? I hear the specimens from the north side of the island show much more, and more vibrant reds than from the south of the island....
Texas Panther Man
New Member
Seems like everyone over here is so quick to call everything an ambanja or a nosy be. I think it is because they dont know the names and traits of each locale so they assume because its blue bodied its a nosy be or an ambanja because its bars are red or purple.
Lee's Ranger looks like a classic ambato locale pardalis. We haved talked about that for yrs. Too bad that import that Jared was working on never made it here. I was stoked to get some ambatos/blue diamonds from European lines to get that locale going over here.
I used to think that the european keepers somehow got all the rare locales before we could here in the US. Now I can see we get alot of the same stuff, they just do alot better job ID'ing the wc's when they come in.
Kent67
Retired Moderator
Alright, well back to the original animal. The answer is....I don't know what he is exactly. All the guesses were sure interesting to see, though. I agree he's got a look at times that seems rather Faly-ish with the few red dots, blue bars, and contrasting lighter background and wondered if anyone saw it too.
He is the product of breeding two wild-caught, labeled, import "Nosy Be's." The shipment also included Ambanjas. Obviously the father was Nosy but we've been thinking the mother may have been Tamatave. This is a clutchmate to the first male, also. Thanks for playing!
He is the product of breeding two wild-caught, labeled, import "Nosy Be's." The shipment also included Ambanjas. Obviously the father was Nosy but we've been thinking the mother may have been Tamatave. This is a clutchmate to the first male, also. Thanks for playing!
Kent67
Retired Moderator
But how are they ID'ing the females in mixed shipments?
coldbloodedAL
Avid Member
Texas Panther Man
New Member
Makes sense but isn't that EXACTLY what we do here also?
They do a better job Id'ing males than we do was what I was saying. I wasnt talking about females. We (in the states) call everything ambanja when we should be trying to differentiate between the different locales.
robmd1
Avid Member
It doesnt matter how good a job they do on males... you cannot id the females an this has proven to be a prob an will be especially when people cant come to terms with it when said females turn out to be diff then they were said to be... this is the prob they never wanna talk bout the females
maxttu
New Member
So how far fetched is it to assume that most of what is bred isn't really true locales?
I understand that some chams will show lots of great traits of certain locales, but how can we ever be certain?
Also, when you have regions that are located right next to other regions how can we ever be certain that the collected specimens aren't already hybrid before we get them?
Texas Panther Man
New Member
I wasnt saying it wasnt imprtant to properly Id the females. I was saying my post was pertaining to males.
robmd1
Avid Member
simple answer? Ya cant be certain unless you picked her out of said place yourself.. all ya can do is go by looks of the offspring...
the females when they come in arnt labeled either are the males your hoping the females are the same as the males but you dont know if they are an if there was a few diff locals that came in LOTS of luck figurein that one out..
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Simple fix really even though I know it sounds easier than it is. However it is coming from the Madagascar end of things. You have got to have good/ professional collectors that once collected their wild caught field specimens keep them separate from other locals. It is being done in Europe and it should be something that exporters are capable of doing with the USA (seemed more of a practice that was done in the USA in the past). Make that a standard of the industry and this nonsense of mixing locals especially the females is not acceptable.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
The family and I just watched the "Madagascar Primeval Island" again as prep for planning our eventual excursion to Madagascar and they have got the "Blue Diamond" local listed differently than the local given by Clean Line Chameleons. I'm going to have to go through the video again then I can post the location they are giving to clarify any ambiguity this may be causing. It is definitely not the same as the Clean Line Chameleons site. The picture of the Blue Diamond looks great though.
