Panther prices?

[jamest0o0]

Got it. No problem at all. It just sort of formed into this topic as those extreme prices seem to mostly be attached to those animals

Ahhh im getting your frustration now, kind of like selling a pure bred dog at top dollar when it’s not actually pure bred? (I’m no dog breeder, but it made sense in my head haha)

 

[Texas Ranger]

Ahhh im getting your frustration now, kind of like selling a pure bred dog at top dollar when it’s not actually pure bred? (I’m no dog breeder, but it made sense in my head haha)

Exactly

 

[Beman]

Got it. No problem at all. It just sort of formed into this topic as those extreme prices seem to mostly be attached to those animals so in a way related to the topic

Thank you, I just do not want to see this thread go sideways. I do not like having to put on my moderator hat. I would rather just be able to focus on help threads and New member questions/husbandry reviews.

 

[jamest0o0]

Thank you, I just do not want to see this thread go sideways. I do not like having to put on my moderator hat. I would rather just be able to focus on help threads and New member questions/husbandry reviews.

On that note can someone critique my supply list:

-20 gallon fish tank (giving him extra space to roam rather than the 10g I was going to use)
-3 red night light bulbs to keep him toasty during winter
-3 coil uvb bulbs, I’ve read that the uvb power gains traction as it swirls down the coils, projecting power directly into the Cham’s bones.
-a cactus

 

[Beman]

On that note can someone critique my supply list:

-20 gallon fish tank (giving him extra space to roam rather than the 10g I was going to use)
-3 red night light bulbs to keep him toasty during winter
-3 coil uvb bulbs, I’ve read that the uvb power gains traction as it swirls down the coils, projecting power directly into the Cham’s bones.
-a cactus

This is why your one of my favorite people. Thanks I needed the laugh. Life is life ING lol

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

The reason you are seeing “ambanja” blurples listed at that price top dollar everywhere is because people think a cross or colormorph panther is valued at more but the market doesn’t seem to agree. As far as I know we are the only breeder in the USA breeding Ambanja from wild stock and proving them out. The so called “ambanja” blue ambanja aka blurples on the market these days look nothing like what is found in the wilds of Madagascar so imo mistakes were made and people just kept going along with it. But with the up tick in people visiting and documenting Ambanja panther chameleons in Madagascar and still with consistent looks and patterns in the wild. the color morphs are loosing desirability because they are not a Ambanja they are a color morph panther chameleon and with unpredictable outcomes from the pairings not knowing if you are getting a blue panther chameleon or one that looks more like a different locale or a blend of different locales in one chameleon. Just my 2 cents on the Ambanja’s most people see on the market these days. They are drab and lack luster and poor reception of the beautiful locale it is. Here is a few Ambanja’s that are wc or proven F1’s we have produced. Probably a much better looking Ambanja then what you saw at the expo labled as so called Ambanja.

The Ambanja Furcifer pardalis I am talking about were not Blurple's. I think the seller was just asking top dollar for them because they were Ambanja's Furcifer pardalis not quality Ambanja Furcifer pardalis. The breeder is a known breeder and I am not naming names. I think he was just trying to make top dollar sales. However I rather just buy a Ambanja Furcifer pardalis from othe breeders here in central California. There are more than a couple and some more local to my area. Chameleons 101 has Ambanja's Furcifer pardalis for sale, they just sold out at the show.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[iPardalis]

Just curious… what is a normal price for a panther these days? Including paying a little extra for some standouts/rare locales? I love browsing them online and I see some nice looking panthers that people have up for 1200+? Is that just a ridiculous price or is that somewhat normal nowadays for a standout? I remember back in the day $300 was standard for a nice looking panther with the occasional 400-450 max for something one of a kind.

The prices have definitely gone up a bit over the past 10 years. I would say that $300 animal is now usually about $400 and the proven, special juveniles/young adults are in the $600-$700 range. Whenever I see a price above $1,000, that's a red flag to me.

I have been breeding high quality Ambilobe for almost a decade now and I have never asked that much for a chameleon. I think the reason the blurples came up is because they were the first to start asking those prices. Then, it kind of shifted the reference price for new breeders who don't understand the market. It does correct itself over time, but we all know the average lifespan of a chameleon breeder is like 1-2 clutches with a small handful who actually stick around for 5+ years.

So in that churn, you have a ton of people burning out because they can't sell at those high prices. You also have a ton of people who don't understand what they are doing, but charging the highest prices. So there is a market mis-match on price-quality perception.

I remember the first time I listed an absolute stunner of a YBBB Ambilobe (neon yellow and clean blue bars) with 7 gens of lineage on both sides for $700 on MM. It made me feel dirty asking that much for a cham lol, but then some guy who clearly had just done his first clutch with product labels that reminded me of a Ball Python breeder discribing morphs dropped like 5 ads of these ugly mutts for $1,500 each right next to mine. I know the average person who doesn't know chams might have thought there was something special about them because they were twice the price, but that describes the dynamic from my perspective.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

The original "Blurple" Ambanja Furcifer pardalis that I recall came Kammerflage Kreations about 10 years ago. Kammerflage is one of the oldest Furcifer pardalis breeders on the USA markets. Kammerflage breeds true lineages and cross locals. I think they have done a great job breeding cross and true lineage Furcifer pardalis. Well done one could say.

I occasionally buy Furcifer pardalis from Chameleon Forums site sponser Kammerflage Kreations.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich