Panther Size and Lifespan vs. Veiled Size and Lifespan

ChamQuestions

ChamQuestions

Member
Hi, everyone. Some might remember me from before I stopped posting, but I’m now back with more questions!
Just a bit of background: I’m pretty confident that I have enough knowledge now after so much research and support from this forum to at least set up a chameleon cage. But, I still don’t have a chameleon as I am waiting for the right time. In the meantime, however, I wanted to figure out (finally) whether I should get a veiled or a panther. Panthers are, of course, friendlier which sounds very nice to me, but I am actually leaning just a bit more towards veileds right now due to their lower price, greater availability in my local exotic pet store, more unique physical characteristics per-individual, and the big one: lifespan. Chameleons have always seemed tragically short-lived to me, but veileds from what I can tell live longer than panthers, which is preferable. So, main question: Can anyone confirm this, or give me a more precise lifespan for the males of both species? Because I tend to see quite a large range. Also, can someone share adult male length of both species from either their nose to butt or nose to tail-tip? The numbers that I see online tend not to match the pictures I see and never say if they include the tail or not. Thanks!
 
Beman said:
No, one does not live longer then the other. They are both about the same with proper husbandry 5-8 years. And you should never buy a cham based on price in my opinion. Length varies as well in both species. Here is the care sheet on both. I would read through these.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/
Click to expand...
Alright, good to know. I will look through those articles once more, I didn’t think of that! The sizes given must include the tail, I suppose, otherwise they’d be massive. Even then, though, a max of 24 inches for veileds and 20 inches for a panther is still bigger than many pictures and videos I have seen. Are those lengths considered a rarity, to anyone’s knowledge, or fairly standard?
 
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ChamQuestions said:
Alright, good to know. I will look through those articles once more, I didn’t think of that! The sizes given must include the tail, I suppose, otherwise they’d be massive. Even then, though, a max of 24 inches for veileds and 20 inches for a panther is still bigger than many pictures and videos I have seen. Are those lengths considered a rarity, to anyone’s knowledge, or fairly standard?
Click to expand...
It includes the tail.
 
My female
ChamQuestions said:
Alright, good to know. I will look through those articles once more, I didn’t think of that! The sizes given must include the tail, I suppose, otherwise they’d be massive. Even then, though, a max of 24 inches for veileds and 20 inches for a panther is still bigger than many pictures and videos I have seen. Are those lengths considered a rarity, to anyone’s knowledge, or fairly standard?
Click to expand...

Pretty standard size, honestly. Chameleons rarely have their tails fully extended, so they tend to look smaller/shorter than they actually are!
 
GoodKarma19 said:
My female


Pretty standard size, honestly. Chameleons rarely have their tails fully extended, so they tend to look smaller/shorter than they actually are!
Click to expand...
Makes sense. Sometimes it seems to me that veileds are like gum with how they go from long and thin to short and hump-backed! That might play a part, too.
 
I find it interesting that you think veileds have more unique characteristics than Panthers when pa theres literally have hundreds of different locals that vary the color combination represented in the cham
 
Daesie11 said:
I find it interesting that you think veileds have more unique characteristics than Panthers when pa theres literally have hundreds of different locals that vary the color combination represented in the cham
Click to expand...
True, but somehow I find that with panthers... it’s almost too many, so that even though all locales look different from one another, it’s hard to digest I guess? Comparatively, with a veiled, they are simple enough that I can actually pick out each one’s unique traits; taller casque, fatter, more yellow, extra stripy, et cetera. That, and I find panthers to look quite similar to one-another if they are of the same locale. They’re still great, though! And I often flip-flop back to preferring panthers anyhow, so I don’t know how much of a difference it really makes. They’re just different animals, so it’s hard to compare them. Just gotta decide if the friendliness-difference between the two species will be important to me when I actually have one, so that will probably be the deciding factor. And also availability at the time of buying.
 
ChamQuestions said:
True, but somehow I find that with panthers... it’s almost too many, so that even though all locales look different from one another, it’s hard to digest I guess? Comparatively, with a veiled, they are simple enough that I can actually pick out each one’s unique traits; taller casque, fatter, more yellow, extra stripy, et cetera. That, and I find panthers to look quite similar to one-another if they are of the same locale. They’re still great, though! And I often flip-flop back to preferring panthers anyhow, so I don’t know how much of a difference it really makes. They’re just different animals, so it’s hard to compare them. Just gotta decide if the friendliness-difference between the two species will be important to me when I actually have one, so that will probably be the deciding factor. And also availability at the time of buying.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that there's no guarantee of relative friendliness. Panthers tend to be more amenable to handling, but not always! Choose whichever you prefer, and go in with no expectations one way or the other.

Lily (female panther) flip flops between allowing me to briefly handle her and wanting nothing to do with me. Unless I have snacks. She's extremely food motivated, and will do anything for snacks! I enjoy her regardless, and couldn't be more pleased with my little monster!
 
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ChamQuestions said:
Hi, everyone. Some might remember me from before I stopped posting, but I’m now back with more questions!
Just a bit of background: I’m pretty confident that I have enough knowledge now after so much research and support from this forum to at least set up a chameleon cage. But, I still don’t have a chameleon as I am waiting for the right time. In the meantime, however, I wanted to figure out (finally) whether I should get a veiled or a panther. Panthers are, of course, friendlier which sounds very nice to me, but I am actually leaning just a bit more towards veileds right now due to their lower price, greater availability in my local exotic pet store, more unique physical characteristics per-individual, and the big one: lifespan. Chameleons have always seemed tragically short-lived to me, but veileds from what I can tell live longer than panthers, which is preferable. So, main question: Can anyone confirm this, or give me a more precise lifespan for the males of both species? Because I tend to see quite a large range. Also, can someone share adult male length of both species from either their nose to butt or nose to tail-tip? The numbers that I see online tend not to match the pictures I see and never say if they include the tail or not. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Lennoncham and Beman. I understand that theres a steep difference in price. The issue we see all too often is people using the cost of the chameleon to decide whether or not it is worth the money to save or take care of. I really wish vieleds were 300$+ so we could weed out the amount that die due to people not caring about proper husbandry :cry: "oh im not going to take it to the vet because theyre only 50$ to replace and a vet visit is 70-150. Dont use price as a deciding factor. Understand that they cost the same to keep. Id also due some research on proper care and see if the local stores near you are keeping them correctly, if not id do some research into reputable breeders. There are quite a few on these forums actually! :)
 
KobaOregonherper said:
I have to agree with Lennoncham and Beman. I understand that theres a steep difference in price. The issue we see all too often is people using the cost of the chameleon to decide whether or not it is worth the money to save or take care of. I really wish vieleds were 300$+ so we could weed out the amount that die due to people not caring about proper husbandry :cry: "oh im not going to take it to the vet because theyre only 50$ to replace and a vet visit is 70-150. Dont use price as a deciding factor. Understand that they cost the same to keep. Id also due some research on proper care and see if the local stores near you are keeping them correctly, if not id do some research into reputable breeders. There are quite a few on these forums actually! :)
Click to expand...
Oh, well I wouldn't neglect a chameleon just 'cause vet care is expensive, don't worry. If I get one, it will be because I know I can afford him and his bills. And I have done the other three things that you mentioned!
 
You should never base your decision on the price of the chameleon, they can be expensive to look after whether you end up with a veiled or panther. You have to be willing to make the financial commitment. In captivity they can live 6-9 years with proper care and nutrition. I personally love panthers but maybe I’m biased
 
The difference in price for a panther and veiled is like 200-300+. While I agree that you should consider the cage and overall care will cost more, that's also a decent chunk of money that could be saved for vet care, maybe a larger cage, mist system, etc. Chams are kept fine on a budget if you do it smart. Personally, I say panther, if they're a little pricey save up a little longer and consider the future costs as everyone mentioned. IME with 5 chameleons, 3 species, they are the easiest to work with and most forgiving. Yeah yeah some veileds are too, but it's a toss up, I feel Panthers can get over it with time, some veileds dont at all. Plus their colors are unreal!
 
This is a pretty easy choice if you ask me....

Get both! Then decide which you like more.... then get 1 more of each!

All kidding aside, today i was dropped off a female veiled. (I do a "rescue" in a sense). This will be the first veiled I've owned... but it beats the alternative!

Some factors to consider:
Size: yes there is a size difference, but for general husbandry there's no real difference.

Visuals: panthers have more color variations and can even change colors in a life span. That being said, I've also seen some very beautiful veileds. You can easily end up with a green panther =P.

Price: I see a lot of people saying "don't consider price, but let's be real here... investing $800 on a cham vs $400 is a big difference when something like 60% of the population cant afford an unplanned expense of $400.... but I digress. As many have said, the real cost of the cham is in the housing and feeding. If you can't afford a panther but want a cham... then go for it. I would NOT own a cham today if not for the fact I got my girl and a cage [the dreaded "Chameleon Kit"] for under $300. She also came gravid and with MBD.

A side note - to save some money down the road... you can start breeding/raising your own food. I personally breed roaches, snails, silkworms and sometimes crickets (pain in the rump).

Anyways, while I agree that "price shouldn't be the deciding factor"... in reality it can be. You seem to be doing your research, collecting bits and pieces... I think you'll do fine.

Best wishes!
 
ChamQuestions said:
Makes sense. Sometimes it seems to me that veileds are like gum with how they go from long and thin to short and hump-backed! That might play a part, too.
Click to expand...
You mean like this?

431C163A-C9E4-43AC-84C4-BDC046399E4F.jpeg
C439AF63-2037-485E-9484-4CBA34679E5B.jpeg
 
You don't have to buy locally during most of the year weather does affect shipping. A chameleon that has not been stressed in a pet store due to the amount of traffic will do better than a stressed individual in general. One night of shipping is less damage than weeks of strangers staring into the cage and asking to hold it. Consider a reputable breeder.
 
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