Mike Fisher
Established Member
Please put a cover on that electrical box. The danger should be obvious.
Parsonii Yellow Giant
- Thread starter ken8913
- Start date
Please put a cover on that electrical box. The danger should be obvious.
SaintJimmy
Avid Member
This might sound rude, but maybe he is not very good at english? Someone needs to set this man straight.
These chameleons need immediate change or I believe they are in for a short or long suffering.
These chameleons need immediate change or I believe they are in for a short or long suffering.
Mike Fisher
Established Member
That's been beaten like a dead horse already, even the mod stepped in. It appears he got these, but has very limited resources to keep them. Even the housing situation he is faced with now is not going to be helpful to keep them healthy. Donation to a zoological institution or experienced keeper over there seems like the best option, but seems unlikely. Best we can do is keep offering advice to improve their care.
The thing that does not make sense to me is the prices that he quoted that the animals sell for in HK, the number that he bought, and his current living conditions. Something doesn't jive.
Mike, probably he has few thousands for hobby but may be not $10000 US for square meter outside of centre. 3/4 million for what is considered here small flat can be technical problem he has.
Chameleopatrick
New Member
There have been many pictures on this site with questionable chameleon habitats. But quite honestly the pictures in this thread are sickening. The worst display of chameleon husbandry I've ever seen. Ever.
Is it possible to close this thread? This whole situation is a perfect example of how NOT to keep your precious chameleons.
What a tragedy.
What's next ? A picture of an electrical fire burning up the Parsonii?
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Maki
Member
Hello,
A little information about these wonderful guys:
http://www.arkive.org/parsons-chameleon/calumma-parsonii/
They are considered Near Threatened, possibly becoming endangered in the near future.
Where did you get him?
A little information about these wonderful guys:
http://www.arkive.org/parsons-chameleon/calumma-parsonii/
They are considered Near Threatened, possibly becoming endangered in the near future.
Where did you get him?
Maki
Member
Oh no! This is what I was hoping to avoid! Everyone who posted something negative to this thread just lost out in helping this individual 1) preserve this Cham and 2) get another person interested in reptiles also interested in conservation!
I hope you do return and post again!
SaintJimmy
Avid Member
I do hope he comes back. What I meant about the language was not to scare him away, only to see if having someone talk to him in his native language would help him understand how important it is.
I just want to help.
Although it does need major changes to the environment.
I do not want Parsons chameleons to die because I intended to make it easier for him to read our instructions!
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
Chris was exactly correct that what we did was alienate a new member to the detriment of his animals. We can rant and rave about our higher level of devotion, motivation, and resources to our hearts' content but it is all wasted breath now.
I can appreciate that someone in HK could believe a shop owner's claims that all his livestock is LEGAL when it isn't. Just because law enforcement isn't great in Asia does not excuse purchasing smuggled animals. The payoffs continue to be worth the risk. If someone truly researches the species they want to work with they will soon find out what their CITES status is (and can decide if they will honor it or not).
I can appreciate that he has an interest in this species (its big, its rare, its valuable, etc etc etc so its tempting to grab them when they come on the market).
I can appreciate that he may well want to breed them legitimately.
I can appreciate that life in HK is different than the USA.
What concerns me most about all this is that the OP knew before purchasing additional chams that he didn't have the space in his tiny HK apartment for more animals like this, but couldn't or wouldn't pass them up and bought them anyway. The critically valuable female is dead...the male could follow right after her. The most critical time to be prepared for a new animal is BEFORE purchase, but second best is NOW during acclimation, not at some future convenient time regardless whether its in HK or Vancouver. Your male parsoni isn't going to wait patiently for the necessary space to appear...it's in trouble now.
I can appreciate that someone in HK could believe a shop owner's claims that all his livestock is LEGAL when it isn't. Just because law enforcement isn't great in Asia does not excuse purchasing smuggled animals. The payoffs continue to be worth the risk. If someone truly researches the species they want to work with they will soon find out what their CITES status is (and can decide if they will honor it or not).
I can appreciate that he has an interest in this species (its big, its rare, its valuable, etc etc etc so its tempting to grab them when they come on the market).
I can appreciate that he may well want to breed them legitimately.
I can appreciate that life in HK is different than the USA.
What concerns me most about all this is that the OP knew before purchasing additional chams that he didn't have the space in his tiny HK apartment for more animals like this, but couldn't or wouldn't pass them up and bought them anyway. The critically valuable female is dead...the male could follow right after her. The most critical time to be prepared for a new animal is BEFORE purchase, but second best is NOW during acclimation, not at some future convenient time regardless whether its in HK or Vancouver. Your male parsoni isn't going to wait patiently for the necessary space to appear...it's in trouble now.
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Mike Fisher
Established Member
Proper reptile keeping does not care what language you speak. I do not want you to stop posting.
It is important for you to understand that the more photos you post of the chameleons staring directly into an exposed light bulb positioned in front of their climbing branch, or climbing near a electrical junction box with the wiring exposed the more upset we will be.
We want to see photos of your chameleons being taken care of properly, that is all. Please do not post any more photos until you can get them set up properly. It is hard to see them like that. It is inflammatory.
pohchunyee
Avid Member
Dear djfishygillz,
This is not a foolish idea. It takes USA so many years to enforced law on smuggling etc. So much money and resources are poured in. If you were a developing country where such resources were not readily available, it is hard to enforce the law. Now the animal already in Asia and sold to an end user. Do you rather alienate Ken to a point that he could not improve the housing of the parsonii and ended up dead or support him and maybe one day he will be one of the breeder for parsonii?
I totally agreed with Chris on this. We are here to support Ken to make sure he provide a nice place for his chameleons and not crucify him. I lived in USA for 8 years. The law are well enforced there. I am still having cultural shock because things are still being smuggled in my country. Being supportive does not mean i dont care for the animal. Being supportive is the first step to help someone to gain knowledge on the animal and improve the housing and care on it.
Dont kill the preacher, help him to preach better!
pohchunyee
Avid Member
LOL... you totally don't get what I mean. Of course with the heavy law enforcement NOW, all panther and veiled are exported to USA with proper documentation. What about before the law was strictly enforced ? How do people get the first group panther and veiled in USA? Hmmm.......
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
If I remember correctly at the time the first individuals of those species showed up in the USA their CITES category was "least concern" and the import/export permitting requirements were minimal or only specific to the taxonomic family level. Veileds (as non-Malagasy origin) might have been even less controlled. Bringing in those founder animals wouldn't have been difficult.
I'm sure Chris can correct me if I'm mistaken.
djfishygillz
Avid Member
I will support him to the worlds end when I see new cages and better care. I just think talk is cheap and I saw no action. But yeah I was pretty much told to shutup by the mods so I will not continue to post on this. Have a good one.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I perfectly well got what you mean Hmmmm... before the Madagascar ban and the first imports of Veileds into the USA (If I recall correctly Ron Tremper was the first to import Veileds to the USA and legally too) they were both legally imported and in smaller amounts. The keepers who received them were extremely accomplished at breeding these two species. Thus meaning they did not even need to import many from Madagascar or from Yemen due to their accomplished breeding. OK.
This is completely the opposite case for the majority of keepers even now of Calumma parsonii parsonii. Calumma parsonii parsonii has always been extremely difficult to breed in captivity. Calumma parsonii parsonii a spectacular species was being sold at extremely low prices similar to what is being seen here from Asia. Smugglers/importer were bringing as many in as possible with no regard to the health of the animals long term at all and selling as many of them as they could cheep as possible. This is a species that is thought to live 20 to 30 years and average life expectancy was 6 months to a year for most of these wild caught imported Parsonii.
I won't endorse the same error we made in the past as the saying goes "a mistake made and nothing learned is a mistake made again". These wasted Pasronii stopped when the ban happened which was absolutely necessary and the price of Parsonii went way up preventing novices from being tempted to buying such a sensitive species. I think this situation here could have been solved if Asian markets adopted a similar or went along with the same protocol. If they can charge $100,000 USD for a Chilli Red Asian Arowana they are absolutely capable of charging $4,000 for a Golden/Yellow Giant Parsonii Chameleon. Along with by doing that they would most likely guarantee that the chameleons go to capable and experienced keepers. Thus this whole thread would never had been an issue.
Jeremy A. Rich
junglefries
Avid Member
confused
Rather than abusing the poor guy like almost everyone accused him of doing to his chams, why not offer some common sense. Unload a couple of his chams, and free up the necessary space needed. Then continue to help him with the extra space. Teach him how to separate a room with minimum screening and 2x4's. He could easily have gotten several cages by sectioning off a room. He could even make a pass thru with doors. I see a hugely wasted opportunity here. I hope a lot of people here don't talk to their kids the same way. They will never have any self esteem. What a waste.
Rather than abusing the poor guy like almost everyone accused him of doing to his chams, why not offer some common sense. Unload a couple of his chams, and free up the necessary space needed. Then continue to help him with the extra space. Teach him how to separate a room with minimum screening and 2x4's. He could easily have gotten several cages by sectioning off a room. He could even make a pass thru with doors. I see a hugely wasted opportunity here. I hope a lot of people here don't talk to their kids the same way. They will never have any self esteem. What a waste.
xbrokenbabydoll
New Member
He's really pretty! Love the yellow in him 
He looks huge
He looks huge Similar threads
