Parsons chameleon

[HiroProtagonist]

LOL, people have been saying that since the 90s and the price has only gone up. There have been a couple small true CB clutches hatched here in the US in the past few years but most have been CB imports.

Chris

The internet wasn't quite so prevalent in the 90s. It forces more of a competitive market. See something that looks like it's priced ridiculous...search around and you'll find the resources and information to get your hands on anything for a better price.

 

[Chris Anderson]

The internet wasn't quite so prevalent in the 90s. It forces more of a competitive market. See something that looks like it's priced ridiculous...search around and you'll find the resources and information to get your hands on anything for a better price.

The issue has very little to do with the prevalence of the internet. When you have virtually no supply and extremely high demand, you're going to have high prices and difficulty obtaining animals. By your argument, the current prevalence of the internet would make getting your hands on parsonii for a better price less likely because anyone with them would be more likely to have access to the same demand. If it were as simple to find a better price as you indicate, everyone would be doing it.

Chris

 

[Chris Anderson]

Yep. I've stood inside a huge cage picking from maybe 40 Parson's. I think they were $75 that time. There were no export protections for any of the Madagascar species prior to late 1994.

Hell, there were times when they used to send parsonii to retailers instead of pardalis cause they couldn't get enough pardalis to fill the orders and had high numbers of parsonii.

Chris

 

[Kent67]

Hell, there were times when they used to send parsonii to retailers instead of pardalis cause they couldn't get enough pardalis to fill the orders and had high numbers of parsonii.

Chris

Totally, that was just my own experience.

By the way, I figured I'd bring up these figures again: According to CITES World Conservation Monitoring Centre, 18,737 Parson's chameleons were exported from Madagascar from 1986 to 1998. As the heaviest species of chameleon, they weigh between 300 to 600 grams. If we say it's an average of 450 grams each, that is EIGHT TONS of Parson's chameleons, of which it was estimated roughly 1%(186 pounds)were still alive by Fall 2001.

Many many of the world's best chameleon keepers had very limited success hatching them. That hasn't changed.

 

[dectr6]

Totally, that was just my own experience.

By the way, I figured I'd bring up these figures again: According to CITES World Conservation Monitoring Centre, 18,737 Parson's chameleons were exported from Madagascar from 1986 to 1998. As the heaviest species of chameleon, they weigh between 300 to 600 grams. If we say it's an average of 450 grams each, that is EIGHT TONS of Parson's chameleons, of which it was estimated roughly 1%(186 pounds)were still alive by Fall 2001.

how do we let this happen? In the case of the Parsons, are they actually almost impossible to breed? Is the incubation and hatching the problem? It's unbelievable that that many Parson's could have been imported and now none left at any kind of reasonalble price. Reminds me of Bradypodion thamnobates and Pumilum (sic?). Their were hundreds in the country and were succesfully being bred and hatched and now I don't think there's a single one in the US. This is by FAR my favorite chameleon. The Thamnobates were also supposed to be a very hardy species and fairly easy to keep. No comment necessary...just pisses me off. David

 

[Chuck G]

Just thought I would put my 2 cents in.
I have 5 Parsons ranging from 5 years to 6 months and I don't have any major aspirations of breeding them to make loads of money.
They are so unlike most chameleons, that is why I am fascinated by them and constantly learning every day.I don't know of any breeding going on or hatching of babies in the US. I do know people who have old Parsons that are not interested in breeding. I know people that feed theirs fruit.
There are alot more here than most people think and keepers with different ideas as far as husbandry and upkeep.
These guys will always demand the high dollar because they are rare and a very large chameleon and of course the difficulty in breeding.
I don't expect a major availability to happen through breeding anytime in the near future.
For anyone who has seen one of these guys close up, knows you will absolutely fall in love with them.

 

[Steven Oosterhoff]

Yeaaaaah, but the Europeans are having soooo much success and have Parson's everywhere that once they teach us how to do it, they'll be common and less expensive right? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Their are also American Calumma Parsonii breeders. I was wondering if they could teach me, an European Calumma keeper (still not a breeder), how to breed them ?

For those of you that aren't following this conversation, there's still no "European Breeder" that I know of that has claimed to hatch out all these animals.

You maybe right about that claiming part although I have heard other stories from, for instance, Germany. If somebody doesn’t claim that they successfully hatched out these animal then they didn’t succeed ? There are breeders who just don’t use forums and stay on the background. I know a breeder that I have to always call. We live in 2008 but he never watches his mail.
Claiming that you have had Calumma Parsonii offspring is one thing. Showing how it’s done, with date, info, pictures, movies etc is something else.

 

[Zerah Morris]

It is always amazing how much controversy and emotion surrounds this species. What is more amazing is the amount of misinformation floating around. Geesh would I love to hatch a clutch with parson, globifer, and oshaungs all at the same time, and just for good measure a yellow lip or two in with my white lips. The incredible CB Calumma egg, LOL

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Oohh steven...I would love for some to give me a name of a person who is a breeder. There are a few, very few...who have been lucky and had a clutch of Parsonii, this does not make them breeders. No one has quite figured it out, there has been only a hand full of people have had multiple clutches in the world. The major problem with breeding Parsonii is that the females are super picky as where to lay, it isn't so much of a problem getting them to mate. Many of these animals mate then become egg bound and die. The people in europe that have had some success (if that is what you want to call it) but still have not figured it out. The people who are considered to be successful in europe all use drugs to enduce laying or take their female to have them cut open for the eggs. This is where the problem lies and as long as people depend on drugs to enduce laying they will not figure out what the animal truely needs. Also even after the drug enduced laying many of these animals die because, like I said we have not figured out what they need, we have just figured out how to get eggs. These people are doing it for the money, not the animals

-chris

 

[lbesok]

The major problem with breeding Parsonii is that the females are super picky as where to lay, it isn't so much of a problem getting them to mate. Many of these animals mate then become egg bound and die. The people in europe that have had some success (if that is what you want to call it) but still have not figured it out. The people who are considered to be successful in europe all use drugs to enduce laying or take their female to have them cut open for the eggs. This is where the problem lies and as long as people depend on drugs to enduce laying they will not figure out what the animal truely needs. Also even after the drug enduced laying many of these animals die because, like I said we have not figured out what they need, we have just figured out how to get eggs. These people are doing it for the money, not the animals

-chris

These practices you speak of are despicable. I believe the best way to find the most conducive laying environment optimally would be to observe them laying in the wild Though this would take a lot of money, time and research to successfully accomplish. The Parsons must have some special egg laying preferences that have yet to be discovered. Thanks for sharing!

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I happen to know there are more Parsonii out there than the "public" knows about. Out of my circle of friends I'm the only one who really uses the internet. The few people I know who have Parsonii are honestly afraid of thieves or the psychos (people who send you hate mail for having one). If had a few I don't think I'd be posting pictures or bragging too much at all.


I've waited 12 years now ('96) since my last Parsonii passed away. I'm actually in a financial posistion to where I can care for another. With the 18-22 month incubation period for the species the price will not be coming down in my opinion.

 

[SSimsswiSS]

The few people I know who have Parsonii are honestly afraid of thieves or the psychos

 

[SSimsswiSS]

I happen to know there are more Parsonii out there than the "public" knows about. Out of my circle of friends I'm the only one who really uses the internet. The few people I know who have Parsonii are honestly afraid of thieves.

Very true. My heart races everytime I walk into my enclosers, and don't spot mine in there usual favorite places.

 

[Dean Pulcini]

I had a full grown male montium stolen from my backyard I couldn't Imagen a Parsonii. It took a long time for my Montium to reach his full potential then have it stolen pissed me off. I sat in the dark the next 2 weeks hoping they would return they never did.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I had a full grown male montium stolen from my backyard I couldn't Imagen a Parsonii. It took a long time for my Montium to reach his full potential then have it stolen pissed me off. I sat in the dark the next 2 weeks hoping they would return they never did.

Note my Career in my profile. If I'm ever able to purchase another Parsonii any thief taking a shot at my new family member will find out the hard way what I've learned over the years regarding them. I go to burglaries everday and it's surprising how many parrots/dogs/Herps get stolen....

 

[Vegas Chad]

Note my Career in my profile. If I'm ever able to purchase another Parsonii any thief taking a shot at my new family member will find out the hard way what I've learned over the years regarding them. I go to burglaries everday and it's surprising how many parrots/dogs/Herps get stolen....

Can I call you Gill Grissom?

I would be in the same boat as Dean, camped out in a dark corner of the year with the ol’ shotgun in hand just wait’n for somebody to jump over that wall… Not that I would use it mind you… But the “click click” of a shot gun will put the fear of God into any man.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Can I call you Gill Grissom?

I would be in the same boat as Dean, camped out in a dark corner of the year with the ol’ shotgun in hand just wait’n for somebody to jump over that wall… Not that I would use it mind you… But the “click click” of a shot gun will put the fear of God into any man.

Who needs a shotgun. Try this one on for size.

Alarm system activates, alerts you by cellphone. You check the computer and access your video camera system. Burglar is in the house. Push a button and the rear patio door opens remotely letting in the two large German Shepherds out back. A second button drops the security door to the Herp room, with no windows in there and two dogs on the other side of the security door. Have a seat and wait for the cops.

Ahhh.... technology

 

[Chuck G]

I like your style!

 

[Steven Oosterhoff]

Oohh steven...I would love for some to give me a name of a person who is a breeder. There are a few, very few...who have been lucky and had a clutch of Parsonii, this does not make them breeders.

You are right Chris. My point is where is the info of the people who have had a clutch ?

The people who are considered to be successful in europe all use drugs to enduce laying or take their female to have them cut open for the eggs.

Also even after the drug enduced laying many of these animals die because, like I said we have not figured out what they need, we have just figured out how to get eggs.

I’m not sure about these last two things Chris. Like I said I’ve heard different things from German breeders (or should I say keepers ?). One has past away and I haven’t been able to reach the other ones. The main problem concerning parsons are recourses that can be trusted.

I happen to know there are more Parsonii out there than the "public" knows about. Out of my circle of friends I'm the only one who really uses the internet. The few people I know who have Parsonii are honestly afraid of thieves or the psychos (people who send you hate mail for having one). If had a few I don't think I'd be posting pictures or bragging too much at all.

In the summer I have my parsons open in the garden. Other animals, like birds and cats can attack them , they can escape or easily be stolen............

 

[OldChamKeeper]

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In the summer I have my parsons open in the garden. Other animals, like birds and cats can attack them , they can escape or easily be stolen............

I used to do that until one these supposedly "slow" chameleons (My first Jackson) got out of a large ficus tree in my back yard and covered about 50' to get to the "better" tree ( a frigging huge pine tree) and did all this in under 15 mins.

I normally take my chameleons outside in a large bird cage. They cant get out, cats and birds don't get in, and if anybody can get by my two shepherds to carry off the cage I'd be surprised. Back when I had my Parson's the bird cage worked really well for sunning but even then they stayed in the shade most of the time.