Parson's or Melleri: Opinions, please!

Andie

Andie

Avid Member
Dear Parson's & Melleri keepers,

Some day, down the road, in the (probably very) distant future, I dream of one day owning one of these gorgeous creatures. My question is thus;

Which one? Which one is easier to keep? Which one has a better temperament?

Now that I'm completely spoiled by my sweet Pixel, who is the most mellow, friendly guy ever, I realize how important temperament truly is. That being said, I think that temperament is more important to me.

When I'm interested in something new, I'm a total geek for research, so why not start now?!
Keepers of these two breeds, please chime in and share your thoughts. I would be so grateful.
 
Melleri have an amazing intelligence and are like no other chameleon, but I also consider them very difficult chameleons to keep and even more than parsonii. Parsonii are not very active, can be rather boring, and need cycling to breed. I have kept both and currently keep parsons and a veiled. If I had to pick one of several species I've worked with, melleri would be my choice, hands down. Their personality is like no other and they are very interactive and rewarding animals.
 
I also like melleri and have kept several, but I haven't kept a captive parsonii, just "met" several in the wild. I think melleri have interesting behaviors as they can be slightly more social...they can tolerate being kept in small groups in VERY large habitats. Because they seem to be a bit more socially sophisticated than most other species, they can be more responsive to their humans. This is not to say they tolerate a lot of handling like a bearded dragon....they are still chams, so territoriality, patience, and realistic expectations are still very important. There are pleasant melleri and totally evil melleri that can blacken your thumbnail with a bite. I have a small scar on my lower lip from a melleri bite (long story involving a big hornworm, choking, CPR, and a late night vet trip).

Both species will need a lot of space, a lot of water, a lot of large food, and close attention to thrive. And, there's also the unpleasant fact that you will be paying over $1000 for a parsonii and a anywhere from $100 to $300 for a melleri. Unfortunately you will find inexpensive, wc melleri in terrible condition that are beyond saving, so you have to be very careful about what you are getting.
 
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Any Parsons I had came in WC and most in terrible condition so I stopped getting them. All were full grown adults when I got them and likely quite old from the look of them. All the Mellers but one were WC and not in good condition upon arrival as well.
At the time I got both species all chameleons sold where WC.
I would think things would be different if I tried again now with CB's....but I would still not consider either to be as easy as veileds or panthers. I would encourage anyone who is thinking of it to be sure they have kept enough chameleons to have a good idea of what they need in general before trying either species.
Just my two cents worth.
 
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My daughter kept Melleri both CB and WC and they are fairly hard to keep. Parsons are extremely laid back and very friendly. You get super attached really fast. They require a really large space and a ton of water so you need good drainage. They also require cooler temps and cold temps in the winter. May sure to have an excellent vet because parsons tend to need one quite often so you would want a very experience chameleon vet that's able to do surgery if and when needed.
 
If parsons need a lot of space, Meller's need double that at least.

Both species are considered more advanced but there is definitely a lot more that is known to generate success with parsons compared to Meller's. It's like we're still figuring Meller's out.

The good news is there may be hope for captive bred melleri in the next year in the US.
 
Here I go again! I must just get strange chams! I have a parsons downstairs, Titan is the most laid back cham I have ever know. He is in a well planted, very large enclosure, everything is automated, my part is to feed him, and clean up after him. If there is a mean or disagreeable bone in Titan, I have never seen it! I expected more interacting with him but he is like a perfect statue. He is not thrilled to be picked up, but has never opened his mouth, or made any threatening moves. When you pick Titan up you need to be ready for his grip!! Oldchamkeeper yells at me for not wearing a glove! I am going to get one. I interact with Titan less than any of my other chams. He is a very lovely living piece of art. Not at all what I expected, but a truly lovely creature.
 
@laurie Parsons definitely have a grip you won't forget! They are mellow. The only time I saw one move quickly was when I was medicating him with itraconazole...he hated the taste so much that the first time I gave it to him he tried to wipe it off his tongue with the plant leaves. Every time thereafter when he saw the syringe he ran as fast as a chameleon can run away from me! Poor thing.
 
To decide between the two species going from temperament alone. I have found Calumma parsonii parsonii to have a a easy going personality. Trioceros melleri the ones I have kept I have experienced this species have had a more of an aggressive and inquisitive personality. Warning if your having idea's these two species do not mix well. There has been a couple disaster from mixing these two species. Lastly both of these species are high maintenance species to provide and keep for long term.

Calumma parsonii parsonii comes with more variation as a species to choose from than Trioceros melleri.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 
Keep in mind too, there are few commercially produced cages that an adult parsons can live comfortably in and to my knowledge there is not a commercially produced cage large enough for melleri.
 
Motherlode Chameleon said:
To decide between the two species going from temperament alone. I have found Calumma parsonii parsonii to have a a easy going personality. Trioceros melleri the ones I have kept I have experienced this species have had a more of an aggressive and inquisitive personality. Warning if your having idea's these two species do not mix well. There has been a couple disaster from mixing these two species. Lastly both of these species are high maintenance species to provide and keep for long term.

Calumma parsonii parsonii comes with more variation as a species to choose from than Trioceros melleri.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Click to expand...

Jeremy why do you think parsons are high maintenance? I have not had Titan near as long as you have had Rhinos, but I have never seen a Cham as laid back, and little work as Titan. Maybe it is because of his very large fully automated enclosure!
 
JoeDigiorgio said:
Keep in mind too, there are few commercially produced cages that an adult parsons can live comfortably in and to my knowledge there is not a commercially produced cage large enough for melleri.
Click to expand...
I used an old parrot cage for mine and plan to upgrade to an aviary when he gets larger. My vote is melleri, but I'm biased. No experience with a parsoni, yet.
 
laurie said:
Jeremy why do you think parsons are high maintenance? I have not had Titan near as long as you have had Rhinos, but I have never seen a Cham as laid back, and little work as Titan. Maybe it is because of his very large fully automated enclosure!
Click to expand...

Laurie

Off the top of my head. They require the huge room size enclosures. I think they require larger enclosures than Trioceros melleri. The really need a huge selection of feeder insects. You do not hear about it much however when Parsonii go on a hunger strike out of burmation season (it happens) they can be almost impossible to have them start feeding again. Calumma parsonii parsonii water, humidity, and temperature requirements is less forgiving than Trioceros melleri. There commitment because of their longer life expectancy is much longer than a Trioceros melleri. Then when medical problems happen they are known as some of the most expensive for chameleons. That is just a couple reason why I think Calumma parsonii parsonii are high maintenance. There are other reasons. Breeding is much more problematic/difficult for Calumma parsonii parsonii as well (other than sexing Trioceros melleri) incubating and hatching fertile eggs has not been as difficult with Trioceros melleri as with Calumma parsonii parsonii eggs.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 
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laurie said:
Jeremy why do you think parsons are high maintenance? I have not had Titan near as long as you have had Rhinos, but I have never seen a Cham as laid back, and little work as Titan. Maybe it is because of his very large fully automated enclosure!
Click to expand...

Motherlode Chameleon said:
Laurie

Off the top of my head. They require the huge room size enclosures. I think they require larger enclosures than Trioceros melleri. The really need a huge selection of feeder insects. You do not hear about it much however when Parsonii go on a hunger strike out of burmation season (it happens) they can be almost impossible to have them start feeding again. Calumma parsonii parsonii water, humidity, and temperature requirements is less forgiving than Trioceros melleri. There commitment because of their longer life expectancy is much longer than a Trioceros melleri. Then when medical problems happen they are known as some of the most expensive for chameleons. That is just a couple reason why I think Calumma parsonii parsonii are high maintenance. There are other reasons. Breeding is much more problematic/difficult for Calumma parsonii parsonii as well (other than sexing Trioceros melleri) incubating and hatching fertile eggs has not been as difficult as hatching Calumma parsonii parsonii eggs.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Click to expand...

I taught Laurie how to care for a Parson. To be honest, and not to slight you I'll add, I've found Parsons one of the easiest to keep IF YOU KNOW HOW. I say that in caps for those fools reading this thinking they can keep a Parson for their first cham.

As with many reptiles, it comes down to their environment. If in captivity we can provide the animal with what it needs to live, they live. On the other hand there are many beginners who foolishly think the animal will just adapt to the cage they put them in regardless of the climate outside their house.

Humidity and Temp are in my experience actually forgiving with Parsons. My humidity fluctuates quite a bit and the temps too from a high of 90F to a night time low of 52F (anything less and I bring mine inside) The one thing they are not forgiving about however is water, they need more than any other species I've ever seen. Melleri on the other hand seem to have some serious issues with humidity or a lack of.

The original question however was from the OP, and it was about temperament. The Parson's win that one but like Laurie said, they don't expend a lot of energy and roam. They tend to find a spot they are comfortable at, and sit there. It's what they do.

Meller's like to roam.

Both will tolerate people, but regardless of how pixel is with you, Chams prefer to be left alone. Living art is a good way of looking at it. You look at your artwork, you don't play with it. They really don't like it.
 
Motherlode Chameleon said:
Laurie

They require the huge room size enclosures. I think they require larger enclosures than Trioceros melleri. The really need a huge selection of feeder insects. You do not hear about it much however when Parsonii go on a hunger strike out of burmation season (it happens) they can be almost impossible to have them start feeding again. Calumma parsonii parsonii water, humidity, and temperature requirements is less forgiving than Trioceros melleri. There commitment because of their longer life expectancy is much longer than a Trioceros melleri. Then when medical problems happen they are known some of the most expensive for chameleons. That is just a couple reason why I think Calumma parsonii parsonii are high maintenance. There are other reasons. Breeding is much more problematic/difficult for Calumma parsonii parsonii as well (other than sexing Trioceros melleri) incubating and hatching fertile eggs has not been as difficult as hatching Calumma parsonii parsonii eggs.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Click to expand...

Wow! There is so much in this post I don't agree with. Instead of trying to scare people away from owning Parson's I think you try to offer advice on how to properly keep them. There is little doubt that Parson's will become more and more popular as prices continue to come down.

What follows is my opinion.
Parsonii can get large and therefore have larger housing needs than smaller chameleons but to say they require huge enclosures is just not true. You could say almost all chameleons need large enclosures. Let's face it, keeping Chameleons like Panthers is a 2x2x4 cage is like keeping them in jail. The vast majority of keepers do it so it is what it is. Parsonii for the most part sit on their but most of the time. I'm not sure how active Melleri are as I haven't owned any.

They don't need a huge selection of feeders anymore that most chameleons. A staple feeder like roaches with occasional other feeders works fine.

Parsonii do stop eating sometimes but they will come around to food when they are ready or if enticed with a bug like a mantis or stick bug. It's also true they will go off their food during brumation but this isn't a big deal and seems to be part of their natural cycle.

I'm not sure what expensive medical care you're referring to but with proper care and a watchful eye they are very hardy and suffer from few medical issues.

As far as breeding, incubation and hatchling rearing, they do have specific requirements but if met they aren't huge issues. Melleri are notorious for their difficulties in sexing, breeding, hatching and caring for hatchlings. I pretty sure more Parsonii have been hatched in the US than Melleri.

I think it just comes down to what you like. Pick a species you like, learn its care requirements and go for it.
 
Nursemaia said:
I used an old parrot cage for mine and plan to upgrade to an aviary when he gets larger. My vote is melleri, but I'm biased. No experience with a parsoni, yet.
Click to expand...

He doesn't try to push his face through the slats of a bird cage? I could never successfully keep a chameleon in a bird cage and I know at least 2 other people who also failed miserably with bird cages.

I'm jealous because cheap used bird cages are pretty common around me and I always pass them up even though I am tempted to use them for quarantines.

Motherlode Chameleon said:
Laurie

Off the top of my head. They require the huge room size enclosures. I think they require larger enclosures than Trioceros melleri. The really need a huge selection of feeder insects. You do not hear about it much however when Parsonii go on a hunger strike out of burmation season (it happens) they can be almost impossible to have them start feeding again. Calumma parsonii parsonii water, humidity, and temperature requirements is less forgiving than Trioceros melleri. There commitment because of their longer life expectancy is much longer than a Trioceros melleri. Then when medical problems happen they are known as some of the most expensive for chameleons. That is just a couple reason why I think Calumma parsonii parsonii are high maintenance. There are other reasons. Breeding is much more problematic/difficult for Calumma parsonii parsonii as well (other than sexing Trioceros melleri) incubating and hatching fertile eggs has not been as difficult with Trioceros melleri as with Calumma parsonii parsonii eggs.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Click to expand...


Particularly when talking about wild melleri, which are going to be even more common very soon, nothing short of something very large and custom will work.
 
Actually now that the topic is on my mind, I am quite sure that melleri far and away have the largest caging requirements of any chameleon.

Not to scare anyone away, particularly since captive bred melleri could potentially be available again in the next year, but I'm pretty sure melleri are a much more demanding species than parsons. Lots and lots of people keep parsons very successfully and very very few have done the same with Meller's.
 
OldChamKeeper said:
I taught Laurie how to care for a Parson. To be honest, and not to slight you I'll add, I've found Parsons one of the easiest to keep IF YOU KNOW HOW. I say that in caps for those fools reading this thinking they can keep a Parson for their first cham.

As with many reptiles, it comes down to their environment. If in captivity we can provide the animal with what it needs to live, they live. On the other hand there are many beginners who foolishly think the animal will just adapt to the cage they put them in regardless of the climate outside their house.

Humidity and Temp are in my experience actually forgiving with Parsons. My humidity fluctuates quite a bit and the temps too from a high of 90F to a night time low of 52F (anything less and I bring mine inside) The one thing they are not forgiving about however is water, they need more than any other species I've ever seen. Melleri on the other hand seem to have some serious issues with humidity or a lack of.

The original question however was from the OP, and it was about temperament. The Parson's win that one but like Laurie said, they don't expend a lot of energy and roam. They tend to find a spot they are comfortable at, and sit there. It's what they do.

Meller's like to roam.

Both will tolerate people, but regardless of how pixel is with you, Chams prefer to be left alone. Living art is a good way of looking at it. You look at your artwork, you don't play with it. They really don't like it.
Click to expand...

When Calumma parsonii parsonii are thriving they can be easy to take care of. However when something is off with them they can have problems. In the mid 1990's all those easy to take care of wild caught Parsonii did not last to in captivity and is something I won't forget. Whole colonies going down in a year or two meaning I think my statement is accurate. I would hate to watch that happen again to any keeper. That is something I won't forget. Are we past those days maybe. However can Parsonii have disastrous problems yeah they can.

As far as husbandry my arrangement is not the same as most everybodies. My My Orange Eye Rhinos roams regularly. He does sit a bit however he does spend a lot of time in his enclosure roaming. He has shown less tolerance to high temperatures and had some issues with fluctuation in humidity that you probably would not have in other terrarium (that I did not have with Trioceros melleri).

Action Jackson said:
Wow! There is so much in this post I don't agree with. Instead of trying to scare people away from owning Parson's I think you try to offer advice on how to properly keep them. There is little doubt that Parson's will become more and more popular as prices continue to come down.

What follows is my opinion.
Parsonii can get large and therefore have larger housing needs than smaller chameleons but to say they require huge enclosures is just not true. You could say almost all chameleons need large enclosures. Let's face it, keeping Chameleons like Panthers is a 2x2x4 cage is like keeping them in jail. The vast majority of keepers do it so it is what it is. Parsonii for the most part sit on their but most of the time. I'm not sure how active Melleri are as I haven't owned any.

They don't need a huge selection of feeders anymore that most chameleons. A staple feeder like roaches with occasional other feeders works fine.

Parsonii do stop eating sometimes but they will come around to food when they are ready or if enticed with a bug like a mantis or stick bug. It's also true they will go off their food during brumation but this isn't a big deal and seems to be part of their natural cycle.

I'm not sure what expensive medical care you're referring to but with proper care and a watchful eye they are very hardy and suffer from few medical issues.

As far as breeding, incubation and hatchling rearing, they do have specific requirements but if met they aren't huge issues. Melleri are notorious for their difficulties in sexing, breeding, hatching and caring for hatchlings. I pretty sure more Parsonii have been hatched in the US than Melleri.

I think it just comes down to what you like. Pick a species you like, learn its care requirements and go for it.
Click to expand...

I am just posting my experiences. I apologize if that scares you. I am not trying to scare people away fro owning Parsonii. I am attempting to prepare prospect owners to be as prepared as they can be.

Out of all the clutches of Trioceros melleri and Calumma parsonii parsonii I have seen laid and hatched I recall higher hatch rates for Trioceros melleri. My Parsonii demand a large selection of feeder insects.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 
Seems like action Jackson beat me to it. I'm no expert on Parsons, I'll have my first one soon, but SOOO many people just say how they're difficult and not for a first time keeper, but then are vague about any care. It's really weird how elitist some people in this hobby, when most reptiles in general arent difficult if you have the space/resources. Aquariums, especially reefs can be much more difficult, and to even go further keeping cephalopods. But even with that I didn't see many people discouraging others from keeping them and withholding info on their care. Instead people were blunt about the costs, time, space, etc and said if you can do the research and provide that, go for it. Just don't understand where this uptight attitude for reptiles comes.
 
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