Peculiar Egg Laying?!

Ethen44

Ethen44

New Member
My female ambilobe panther chameleon has just laid a single egg in her potting soil for her plant. She obviously has more, as she is still plump. But I was just wondering why she would only lay one?! I've never even heard of them laying eggs in multiple places...furthermore, this egg wasn't burried. I have a medium for her consisting of coconut husk (grounded up finely) mixed with peet moss. It's plenty moist, and about 6 in deep. Perhaps she doesn't like this? Any help or tips would be nice, this will be my first clutch of eggs to tend for. Came a lot quicker than I anticipated! She's been prego for only 16 days now!
 
did you bump her cage or disturb her while she was laying? id put a blanket/ shower curtain over her cage for some privacy if you dont already have one
 
If it were me I would make a tunnel with your fist and make sure the tunnel holds (is moist enough not to collapse) and go get a bag of play sand and a 5 gallon bucket at lowes or home depot and make a larger bin filling it with very moist sand almost all the way to the top and make another tunnel with that and replace the other one, then cover her cage with a garbage bag or something so she can't see you and cut a peep hole to check in on her, is she becomes eggbound you will need to get her to the vet right away. good luck
 
She is only 16 days prego, is it possible to be egg bound this early? She started digging around yesterday, I feel that if I were to switch the egg laying medium she may become startled even farther. I put up a blanket around her cage to give her some privacy. The medium has been checked and is plenty moist, and I added extra peat moss for extra hold on the tunnel...my only fear is that it isn't deep enough, even though the egg she did happen to lay was on the surface of my plants potting soil...this is just so strange! It's such a perfect little egg though:) I'll keep you updated on what goes on from here, if she hasn't laid them by tomorrow I'll switch the medium as suggested. Thank you!

Ooo btw, does anyone have a link to an in depth breeding/egg care site or post?Thanks! ~ Ethen :)
 
she is really not due for another two weeks. I don't think she laid the egg I think she dropped it. I am just wondering why:confused: the fact that she is digging is a good sign that she may lay :) I don't know how big your bin is, you said 6 inches deep. Although many people use larger bins I know someone who uses small ones like that without problems. I have one female who always uses her pot that is only 8 inches high although she had larger alternatives, so I stopped offering her other ones lol. Please keep us posted on her progress :)

If you can fill this out we can get a look at her husbandry and it may help
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/
 
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1.My girl is a furcifer paradalis, 11 months old, been in my care for 9 months now.
2.She is never handled, I only will hold my male.
3.Her diet consists of 2 types of crickets, dubia roaches, red riders (or turkistan roach), and the occasional super worm.
4.I dust every other meal lightly with calcium (no d3) and a multi vitamin bimonthly
5. Mist her 3-4 times a day, increased to 5-6 since copulation
6. Fecal matter is moist, dark with white towards the end.
7. Her cage is 48x24 custom built, plenty of air flow. Screen
8. I use reptibulb's 5.0 uv, basking spot is at 89 degrees, bottom is 76, middle temp is 78-80 with 60% humidity
9. I use a pothos plant and a yucca, also have one dracenia.
10. Cage is in a room specially indicated to house chameleons, no drafts, humidity is about 60% and the room temp varies from 73-80 degrees.

Hope this helps :)
 
Does she get calcium with D3 twice a month? everything else seems spot on (assuming you are properly gut loading your colonies:p) what specific brand names are your supplements? she should have calcium with D3 at twice a month (or is she getting alot of outdoor sun?)
 
suzi said:
she is really not due for another two weeks. I don't think she laid the egg I think she dropped it. I am just wondering why:confused: the fact that she is digging is a good sign that she may lay :) I don't know how big your bin is, you said 6 inches deep. Although many people use larger bins I know someone who uses small ones like that without problems. I have one female who always uses her pot that is only 8 inches high although she had larger alternatives, so I stopped offering her other ones lol. Please keep us posted on her progress :)

If you can fill this out we can get a look at her husbandry and it may help
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/
Click to expand...

I need to clarify on some of what you said. Gestation time in chameleons is temperature dependent. When kept for longer-day durations where the ambient temp is well into the 80's and the days long, gestation in panthers can be as short as 13-14 days, and produce high quality eggs. In cooler temps, and/or shorter days, the same female may take up to 34 days to gestate.

Dropping 1-2 eggs prematurely on the surface, up to 5 days before actual laying, is not uncommon. It is not normal either, but is not in itself cause for alarm. Present her as large of an area to lay as you can. with as many options as you can, and let her do her thing.

Good luck.
 
suzi said:
If it were me I would make a tunnel with your fist and make sure the tunnel holds (is moist enough not to collapse) and go get a bag of play sand and a 5 gallon bucket at lowes or home depot and make a larger bin filling it with very moist sand almost all the way to the top and make another tunnel with that and replace the other one, then cover her cage with a garbage bag or something so she can't see you and cut a peep hole to check in on her, is she becomes eggbound you will need to get her to the vet right away. good luck
Click to expand...

She is very capable of digging herself. It is important to make sure that your medium is appropriate, as you note, by digging a test-tunnel. But there is no need to pre-start one for her. None.
 
Chameleon Company said:
She is very capable of digging herself. It is important to make sure that your medium is appropriate, as you note, by digging a test-tunnel. But there is no need to pre-start one for her. None.
Click to expand...

I agree that you don't need to start tunnels for them, I do however sometimes do this and give them an option. Sometimes they use it and sometimes they don't when they do it is a lot easier on them if they are having a problem and to me dropping eggs could indicate a possible problem, not a necessity but could be helpful and doesn't hurt.
 
Sometimes if a chameleon is bred to late in the cycle it will lay eggs earlier than it would normally lay them.

Dropping eggs is not usually a good sign although the odd chameleon seems to do that and still be okay.

IMHO there is no harm in digging a tunnel for it...some will actually continue to dig a tunnel that has been started for them.
 
kinyonga said:
Sometimes if a chameleon is bred to late in the cycle it will lay eggs earlier than it would normally lay them.

Dropping eggs is not usually a good sign although the odd chameleon seems to do that and still be okay.

IMHO there is no harm in digging a tunnel for it...some will actually continue to dig a tunnel that has been started for them.
Click to expand...

Not sure how one determines "earlier or later" ? As I said, gestation is very much temperature dependent, and I will add, has zero correlation to some concept of "earlier or later ? When I breed panther females in the warmest part of the year here, they all lay in 13-17 days after breeding. In the cooler and shorter-day winters, add 12 days or more to it. There is no evidence of "to late in the cycle" (actually, the proper English is "too late ..."). Sorry to be blunt, but where do you folks get this data ? You use the word "normal" ? What do you base "normal" on ? Its absurd !!!
 
If the female is mated only once and the first clutch produced after the mating consists of some fertile eggs and some infertile followed by a fertile clutch how do you account for the first clutch containing both fertile eggs and infertile ones?

For her to have produced both, a batch of follicles had to be ovulating and it would make sense that at the point of mating the remaining follicles that were not too far along to accept sperm were fertilized with the left over sperm fertilizing the next (2nd) clutch that is laid. If she was not too far along in the cycle all the first batch would have been fertile.

(Not saying that temperature might not play a part in things too.)
 
There is a cycle of hormones during the stages of reproduction....the previtellogenic stage where no follicles are visible, the vitellogenic stage where there are round follicular structures that have not yet ovulated and then gravid stage with the presence of oval egg structures at which point the shelling has already occurred.
 
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kinyonga said:
If the female is mated only once and the first clutch produced after the mating consists of some fertile eggs and some infertile followed by a fertile clutch how do you account for the first clutch containing both fertile eggs and infertile ones?

For her to have produced both, a batch of follicles had to be ovulating and it would make sense that at the point of mating the remaining follicles that were not too far along to accept sperm were fertilized with the left over sperm fertilizing the next (2nd) clutch that is laid. If she was not too far along in the cycle all the first batch would have been fertile.

(Not saying that temperature might not play a part in things too.)
Click to expand...

Each egg within a clutch, and each clutch, will be affected by the health, and more specifically, the vitamin and mineral stores of the female. A female in tip-top shape will invariably produce a clutch with both a high-fertility rate, and then consequent, high hatch rate. When the female is less-prepared, both the fertility rate, and then the hatch rate of those fertile eggs, will drop. Possibly to zero.

However, with such as a sperm-retention clutch, its a new drawing board if the female's condition has changed, hopefully for the better. It is very possible for a first original clutch to perform poorly, but then the next sperm-retained clutch to perform much better. This will not be a random thing though. There will have to have been an improvement in the nutrition-husbandry between clutches.

Of course, it is more common that a female with less-than-desired husbandry will produce a marginally successful first clutch, and then crash worse on the second, as the husbandry has remained the same, and the first clutch depleted her too much to produce an equal, much less better, second clutch.

In our experience, the overwhelming determination of both egg fertility, and then successful hatch, is the health of the female, especially with regard to the finesses of nutrition. Both those rates decline proportionally with the nutritional preparedness of the female.
 
You said...."Each egg within a clutch, and each clutch, will be affected by the health, and more specifically, the vitamin and mineral stores of the female"...can't disagree with that!

You said..."A female in tip-top shape will invariably produce a clutch with both a high-fertility rate, and then consequent, high hatch rate. When the female is less-prepared, both the fertility rate, and then the hatch rate of those fertile eggs, will drop. Possibly to zero."...so are you saying that any clutch that has infertile eggs in it is due to the female lacking nutrients rather than the egg being too far down the reproductive tract to have been fertilized?

You said..."Of course, it is more common that a female with less-than-desired husbandry will produce a marginally successful first clutch, and then crash worse on the second, as the husbandry has remained the same, and the first clutch depleted her too much to produce an equal, much less better, second clutch"....but this doesn't account for the first clutch having some fertile and some infertile eggs followed by a clutch of all fertile eggs like the scenario I was asking about. This has been reported many times without there being any improvement to the husbandry being involved as you were suggesting. You're saying that the second clutch would be worse.
 
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