Petsmart Veiled

[insert name here]

So I just stopped by petsmart to pick up some catfood and saw that they wanted 200 dollars for a juvenile vieled. And he was in a tank with a 98 degree temp.

They also had ball pythons that looked emaciated they were so skinny in a tank with 102 degree temps. And day geckos at 98 degrees.

 

[chambabysitter1]

Sounds like petsmart. The best you can do is inform the staff, inform locals, and not support the business.

 

[Minihuey]

yeah i feel hella bad whenever I go to petsmart. All the lizards look miserable. I remember seeing a full size female veiled in a cage filled with peat moss and she was all wet from the water bowl so the moss got all over her and inside her eyes. It was pathetic

 

[blackbetty]

I walk by.. There was a jacksons there a few months back..and in 2 days, it was gone and replaced with another.. that tells me it died..it was so dark and trying to claw its way out..no humidity, high temps, no way to even mist the tank in the glass enclosure it was in.. So sad..I just cant even look anymore.

 

[Minihuey]

Where are they even getting their chameleons from?

 

[Syn]

If you're talking about the one off Baseline, I've talked to the owner before.

She's just interested in her yearly bonus if the profit is over X amount of dollars.

 

[insert name here]

I was referring to the one on Power and McKellips. That is disguting though. If you are going to be in the business of animals at least show a little care for them.

 

[naich]

thats funny cause the petsmart around here is the opposite...beardies at at like 85 degrees and chams at room temp with no uvb...what jerks they straight up told me that it was a top of the line uvb brnd...but no name was on the bulb??? funny thing was that it had the same brand logo ontop of the cages as it did in the bathroom!

 

[Corruptedmuffin]

Where are they even getting their chameleons from?

Sandfire Ranch is who send in the reptiles

 

[Syn]

I was referring to the one on Power and McKellips. That is disguting though. If you are going to be in the business of animals at least show a little care for them.

That one's even worse. I've never personally talked to the manager except for one time, giving her a card with my email on it telling her if she doesn't change the setup for the chameleon that I wasn't going back there and I would make sure that no one else did.

*shakes head* Never got an email! Stubborn @$^$*%&(*^ #%^&$(.

 

[jojackson]

This has to be the 'millionth' bad report about 'petsmart', what I dont understand, is if they are that bad, why dont 200 million US petlovers do something about it?
Why dont animal welfare organisations/SPCA etc etc do something about it?
I take it Petsmart is a multimillion dollar corporation that can afford 'Good' *cough* lawyers, but really, petitions to congress or whatever politicians there, with enough signatures might get something done, atleast a definitive guide to petstore practices,
some legislation to back it maybe.
If I run a filthy restraunt, there are inspectors that can order I clean up my act, or shut me down, the same should apply to petstores.

 

[Chamero]

Stop supporting them...which means stop buying dog food from them. Don't even browse there.

 

[jojackson]

Must be millions of people who dont, so obviously boycotting them is ineffective.

 

[chequepoint]

Great ideas! Lets convince the government that even pet chains can't effectively handle reptiles in the pet trade and that banning them will be a good thing!

Pet stores aren't designed to care for any animal for more than a week or two, and the conditions in a pet store are like heaven compared to how they're kept at any importer or wholesaler.

Finally, the care of the animals is largely dependent upon the quality of the low level employees. The managers job is the bottom line. The bulk of the floor staffs job is assisting customers, its how they handle the rest of their time that shows what kind of employee they really are. They can either care for the animals, read up on them, etc. or slack.

The other factor is that no matter how they care for the animals, they will be flooded with complaints of how they are kept. If they keep chams in screen cages without water bowls, they'll get letters and angry customers demanding to know why this tropical reptile isn't getting the humidity and water and heat that it clearly needs. My friend's pet store doesn't go a week without someone up in arms over the fact that the snakes are kept in sterlite boxes in a rack, not in beautifully designed terrariums. Your complaints are going unheard because you're the 50th lunatic customer that has bothered them that day, no matter what condition they keep the animals in.

 

[jojackson]

It should go for importers and wholesalers also.
So, its easier to do nothing eh. No wonder it continues.
Sure some do it right, but this thread is about those that dont, not your freind.

How hard can it be to ensure a petstore follows guiderules for a particular species.
Such stores could carry certification to define them from those that dont.
Its not nessesary that the 50 idiots you mention know what there on about, If the store carrys certification, theres nothing they can do.

People who DO know how reptiles should be kept will choose the certified stores.

Why dismiss the entire issue because some folk will complain either way? what a cop out!

Lets convince the government that even pet chains can't effectively handle reptiles in the pet trade and that banning them will be a good thing!

NO, lets convince them that reptile hobbiests are responsible people, who want to ensure the wellbeing of reptiles in the pet trade, and that we can police our own hobby responsibly, so they DONT ban them! Allowing the unchecked abuse of petstore reptiles WILL eventually be used for fuel by those wishing to ban them, even if you dont care, others will.
I bet you'd be among the first to complain loudly if they did ban herps based on that, If you dont support the hobby, you have no right to complain.

I bet your glass is half empty isnt it!

 

[chequepoint]

Who decides what appropriate care is for your mythical certification program? Whoever writes their care sheets is often misguided at best. Vets? Most vets are years behind whatever the hobbyists are doing in the reptile field. Most Hobbyists can't agree on standards of care, and even if they could, they're amateurs by definition and no one would write a law based around the expert advice of some guy with a few animals in his spare bedroom and a blog. Do we base it on what the perceived American methods are, or do we account for the often vastly different techniques in europe? What happens when things change rapidly? The hobby is drastically different now than it was 10 years ago. It wasn't until THIS YEAR with the Repti Breeze cages that there was a suitable screen cage even available for distribution to 99% of the pet stores in this country.

All of this will drive the price of animals up, are you going to be happy to pay more? We saw last year that people didn't care what conditions an animal was kept in, as long as they could get a panther for $99. It effectively ripped $50-$100 off the average price of every panther on the market.

Sometimes doing nothing is the appropriate solution. If chameleons die in captivity at these pet stores, eventually the bottom line focused managers will stop ordering them, or force their employees to educate themselves in proper husbandry. Every time some well meaning idiot on this forum tries to rescue one, they might as well kill 3 more by their own hand.

 

[chequepoint]

I bet your glass is half empty isnt it!

My glass is at 50% of its maximum capacity. Perception is not reality. Reality is reality. The only regulation that ever proves effective is self regulation motivated by economics. That will only be achieved through consumer education, not government regulation.

 

[jojackson]

Who decides what appropriate care is for your mythical certification program?

What?, everyone is either a vet or ameature with a blog? no in between? herpetoligist of various feilds?
what kind of people do you think come up with 699 type bills, Im betting most are none of the above.

All of this will drive the price of animals up, are you going to be happy to pay more? We saw last year that people didn't care what conditions an animal was kept in, as long as they could get a panther for $99. It effectively ripped $50-$100 off the average price of every panther on the market.

With the number of wild animals torn from their habitats every year Its probly a good thing, More expensive =less idiot buyers./sellers, more private captive breeding.

If chameleons die in captivity at these pet stores, eventually the bottom line focused managers will stop ordering them, or force their employees to educate themselves in proper husbandry.

Eventually?

Every time some well meaning idiot on this forum tries to rescue one, they might as well kill 3 more by their own hand.

I would think the same applies to ...

people didn't care what conditions an animal was kept in, as long as they could get a panther for $99.

Probly truth, but a bit tough to chew anyway, this forum is a great example. Misguided or poorly thought compassion for petstore herps DOES keep it happening, but I still think we need to be pro-active as herp hobbiest. There is already too many do gooders opposed to people keeping reptiles, If we all take the passive approach , eventually a 699 type bill will be put in place despite petitions and once a precedent is set it will be an uphill battle for us. Better an expensive legal cham than a VERY expensive illegal one. (trust me)

My glass is at 50% of its maximum capacity. Perception is not reality. Reality is reality. The only regulation that ever proves effective is self regulation motivated by economics. That will only be achieved through consumer education, not government regulation.

A man after my own heart, but a hell of a cynic!

 

[dodolah]

I agree with Chequepoint.
I wouldn't call his remark as cynical. His is realistic.
The way I see it solved is by speaking their language: "Money."
It is sad, but purchasing the "poor" animal to rescue it from the petstore inappropriate care only motivates the store to restock.

Educating the whole country about something that they do not care will take a very long time and requires extremely complicated bureaucracy.

One petsmart in my area actually pretty good in keeping their chameleon.
Screen cage, dripper, and uvb. According to the staff (this is anecdotal- as I have no way to proof this is true beside believing what he said), just a week ago, they got a fine from the government for not providing the chameleon with a bowl of water, substrate, and a proper enclosure- obviously, they meant a glass terrarium.

To them, there is only 1 standard care for everything related to reptile.
Goes to show how little they knew about chameleon.

I agree that something must be done. But, in the meantime, not supporting the shop is the realistic way to do it.
This is not gonna change overnight.
Therefore, I no longer take my business to those places anymore.
I buy everything online or to the shop where I believe they treated their animal well.

At least, I managed to convince one other shop to stop selling chameleons.

The manager seems perplexed since the chameleons they kept keep dying one by one
I just gave him a bit of a nudge to no longer carry reptiles specifically chameleons as it is not profitable..
They no longer carry them for a year now (so far so good).

This is gonna be a long fight no matter what.

 

[jojackson]

At least, I managed to convince one other shop to stop selling chameleons.

The manager seems perplexed since the chameleons they kept keep dying one by one
I just gave him a bit of a nudge to no longer carry reptiles specifically chameleons as it is not profitable..
They no longer carry them for a year now (so far so good).

There you go, well done! Thats pro-active is it not. Every reptile keeper should atleast try to make a difference, since if we dont, nobody else will. By all means boycott, but dont assume no petstore owner will listen to reason, especially if you point out the bottom line.

Maybe its just me, but if I ran a petstore Id make sure it was top notch, afterall You cant sell a dead animal, and an obviously sick one wont be easy either. If my animals are healthy and in good condition, it reflects on my store, customers will remember my animals were healthy and conditions clean and reflecting sound husbandry knowledge, as opposed to the one down the road.
They may still go to 'Dodgypets' and buy a cheap animal that will die, but rarely twice.
Money is everybodys bottom line, you get what you pay for. Those who spend a little more for a healthy animal from me, are paying less in the long run.
Why this eludes dodgy petstores and the poor fools who keep them in buisness is beyond me.
Importing these unfortunate creatures must be dirt cheap, that I dont understand.
If a store sells a veiled for $35, how much did he pay?
Right there seems to be where tougher legislation is required, make it more expensive/difficult to import, it may raise prices, but it might raise their game aswell.

Dosent everyone want to encourage more private captive breeding? Is it cheaper for petstores to import than buy from local breeders? Thats an issue.

can someone tell me which species are imported, which are not and how much it cost petstores for both in the US?

Im assuming veilds are a dime a dozen there?