Petsmart Veiled

Running a pet store isn't for people who love animals.
Here is a very basic example. You have a Veiled Chameleon that sells for around $75 at most retail operations (Internet is always cheaper, but you have to factor in shipping, etc. so most retail stores around here get 40-50 more than you could online). In reality you paid 25 dollars for the animal. It has a problem, and has to go to the vet. The vet visit would be $100. So, do you take the 25 dollar tax write off and euthanize the animal in your rodent freezer, leave it dying on display until you can pass it off on an unsuspecting customer at a sale price and make $25, or take it to the vet and completely lose your shirt.

Everyone says they would do differently if they ran a pet store, but you'll notice those people don't stay in business very long. The only way to effectively run a pet store is as a business, not a charity. That isn't an excuse to be unethical, or cruel, but there has to be a realization that animals will die in your care every week. You have to sell products that you make a good margin on, even if they aren't the best, and at the end of the day you do what it takes to keep your lights on and the paychecks clearing for your employees.

The reason I'm not a vet is because you HAVE to be able to turn away a dying animal if they owner doesn't have money to pay you, or you'll go out of business.

One petsmart in my area actually pretty good in keeping their chameleon.
Screen cage, dripper, and uvb. According to the staff (this is anecdotal- as I have no way to proof this is true beside believing what he said), just a week ago, they got a fine from the government for not providing the chameleon with a bowl of water, substrate, and a proper enclosure- obviously, they meant a glass terrarium.

I absolutely believe this to be true. This is what happens when the government tries to regulate something that they can't possibly keep up on. I have watched customers in stores complain of the exact same thing, I'm sure one of them was motivated to call the humane society and report them for keeping the animal in such "Cruel" conditions. Try explaining to a person that a snake would rather be in a small dark box than a big display aquarium in a high traffic store.. they will not believe you. They get angry, call the aspca on you, and then mail another check to peta without realizing that peta wants to take their pets away.

The solution is slow. Hundreds of thousands of animals will die cruel deaths in miami warehouses. Most pet stores thrive on the business generated by customers killing animals, and then wanting another one. In 2008 the US pet trade was a 43.2 billion dollar industry, with reptiles being kept in 4.7 million households. Forums like this don't even begin to reach or represent the number of people keeping these animals out there. Local herp clubs are the most positive tool we have to accomplish change. Organized groups of reptile enthusiasts supporting the good stores and educating each other at a regional level will force the big box retailers to compete on quality instead of price.
 
Importing these unfortunate creatures must be dirt cheap, that I dont understand.
If a store sells a veiled for $35, how much did he pay?
Right there seems to be where tougher legislation is required, make it more expensive/difficult to import, it may raise prices, but it might raise their game aswell.

Dosent everyone want to encourage more private captive breeding? Is it cheaper for petstores to import than buy from local breeders? Thats an issue.

can someone tell me which species are imported, which are not and how much it cost petstores for both in the US?

Im assuming veilds are a dime a dozen there?

Most stores wont' sell a veiled for $35, 50-75 is more likely. They are primarily captive bred specimens, but in order to compete with import pricing, they are generally sold at what seems to be about 3 weeks old to minimize breeder costs. I think current wholesale rate is between $15-25 for them.

Most of the panthers I see in stores locally are about 2 months old, and the wholesale cost is in the $80 range these days... they sell for about $180 for a baby upwards to 400 for something that is pretty colorful and 5-6 months old.

Other than that you're looking at wild caught for everything else chameleon oriented, and for any adult animals that weren't traded in from a customer. Jacksons can't cost more than $25 for a wild caught specimen wholesale as they tend to retail for around $75-125 here. You can typically figure that a store is doubling to tripling its money, more than that if you're dealing with a petsmart or petco.

I've argued that the prices of these animals needs to remain high, but the market will bear what it will bear. There is a price where the breeders can't make any money, so they just stop breeding. Nearly every veiled chameleon in a pet store is too young to be there, but the breeders can't afford to raise them to proper size. It will always be cheaper to pay a poor villager a few pennies per animal and toss them on a boat than to properly feed and raise a baby up to an appropriate size. We also NEED wild caught bloodlines for diversity, so we don't want that to go away.
 
Hundreds of thousands of animals will die cruel deaths in miami warehouses.

Each year? If thats even 20% mortality thats a hell of alot of animals? Does this refer to imported wildcaught? If it does, how the hell can wild populations sustain this rape, and for how long?

We wont have WC bloodlines in the genepool if there arnt any left to plunder. This is worse than I thought, especially given relatively isolated places (madagascar islands etc)
where they cant exactly be thriving as it is.
Are the rarer species becoming more often Captive bred now? I know some are still only imported (according to folk here).
Is demand for those species growing and driving importation?

Whats the most expensive Cham (WC) ? Hopefully more cham keepers are doing their part (learning to breed the rarer species into commonality in captivity) I know Id try if it were possible. I take my hat off to anyone who makes an effort.
 
I've seen numbers somewhere that suggest that 90% of all WC animals don't make it from their capture to the end of their first year in captivity.

This isn't some crazy new revelation. Things are actually better than they've ever been. It's just a very slow process.

Chameleons are pretty heavily regulated at this point, a lot of other animals aren't.
 
Im also wondering about quarantine. With the import of so many animals, so cheaply, so often, is there no compulsary quarantine? I would've thought quarantine proceedure would increase cost for the importer, and hence the buyer/seller?
I never hear anything about quarantine here, either store owners waiting, nor for that matter, of buyers (members here) quarantining new additions.
I see 'my new x cham' threads, where folk proudly show off the new addition in a cage next to existing chams!

Is there no concern about disease with incoming fauna to the US? Can you tell me anything about that?
 
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