Phoenix and Butterworm questions

[Syreptyon]

Hey guys, so I'm wondering about feeders again. I've posted here a couple times and, as stated before, I'm getting a juvenile veiled soon. I have everything ready except for feeders.

I was reading up on various feeders today and found some links about phoenix worms and butterworms. What do you guys think about them? I read that they're very healthy and you don't even need to dust them. I like that you don't need to gutload them and you can keep one of them in the fridge and one just in your house at room temperature (can't remember which is which). They seem low maintenance.

So I was wondering, can these guys be used as staples in a cham's diet? I've read various threads about them and some people seem to like them and others don't. If you think they can be used as staples, how many would you suggest feeding? They are fairly small and I didn't find any information on that while reading through the forums. Thanks for the help! (I would use other feeders, too, by the way. I know the variety issue would come up)

Oh, and if you don't like them, please explain why

 

[jannb]

You would need to use crickets or dubia for your staple. I use Phoenix worms some along with my crickets, silkworms, hornworms and dubia. Jann

 

[Syreptyon]

Thanks Jann I do intend to use silkworms and dubia for sure

 

[tryme]

I heard butterworms were for treats?

 

[dodolah]

it's fine.
But, it's kinda expensive for staple compared to silkies and crix.
So, I use it as treats.

 

[sandrachameleon]

I offer butterworms about weekly, maybe a little less. They are relatively high in calcium, however they are also high in fat. Good for juvies (not babies), and adults that need to put on weight after an illness, but not a good staple for a healthy adult.

I think pheonix worms (soldier fly maggots) are gross and a pain in the butt to deal with, but they do make a pretty good option for variety purposes for small chams.

If I had to pick four "staples" for my adult chams it would be:
roaches, crickets, silkworms, kingworms (superworms)
For babies it would be:
fruit flies, roach nymphs, baby silkworms, pin heads

 

[Syreptyon]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I've decided to not use them a ton, but at least for enrichment. How many would you say I should feed at a time (for either butterworms or phoenix worms)?

 

[dodolah]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I've decided to not use them a ton, but at least for enrichment. How many would you say I should feed at a time (for either butterworms or phoenix worms)?

just enough
actually, depending on your chameleon age and appetite.
If it's an adult already, you might have difficulty convincing your cham to eat phoenix worms.
They are too small for adult cham to eat.

I usually fed my adult cham 5 or 6 butterworms/ feeding.
and he eat every other day.

 

[sandrachameleon]

I only give a single butterworm at a time per chameleon. This would be in addition to other feeders that day of course.
Unlike many people who offer a whole bunch of feeders at once, I prefer to give two or more "meal times" in a day. So "Breakfast" might be three crickets, "lunch" might be a butterworm, and "dinner" might be a roach or two. The next day the feeders offered would be different.

 

[Syreptyon]

All right! So either as much as is enough or fed as a part of the day's meals