Phoenix Worms

i think this could be a possible way to tranfer the nutrition of the worm to a chameleon not interested in eating the actually worm. It my lose some calcium and stuff but I think thats a good idea.
 
This is not effective.

Each time something is passed up the food chain, less and less nutrients are absorbed. Substantially less.

Remember back to your highschool years studying biology and the transmission of toxic substances. :)
 
Brad Thanks For The Info./research

So Considering The High Fat Content, Just Like The Label Says On The Cup These Goliath Worms Come In, These Are A Treat Rather Then A Staple For My Chameleon's Diet. I Have Not Grown Them To Desired Size Yet But Will Keep This In Mind. I Also Ordered Darkling Beetle's That Are A Half Inch Black Beetle. If You Ever Have Ordered A Box Of Or Mass Ammount Of Crickets It Is Common To Find A Black Beetle Or Two Mixed In. These Are Darkling Beetle's. My Chameleons Show No Interest In Them But When I Gave Some To My Friend His Veiled Greeedily Smacked Them Up. As Regards The Phoenix Worms, My Distributor Said Refrigerate And The Cup Said Leave Out At Room Temperature. I Left Them Out Over The Weekend And Came Home To A Bunch Of Dead Phoenix Worms. So Refrigerate Is My Next Action And What I Would Advise. Thanks For The Help.
 
Mr. Will Hayward

When Less Nutrients Are Absorbed Each Time Up The Food Chain, How Long Is The Best Time To Gutload Crickets. I Have Heard One Hour And I Have Heard Upto Four Hours. After Exposing Crickets To Collard Greens/scrambled Egg Mixture I Should Give Crickets To Chameleons In Two Hours? One Hour? More? Thanks In Advance, Dave
 
Dave,
I constantly gutload so have no specific time frame.
Did your phoenix worms dry out?
Mine do fine at room temp.

-Brad
 
I forgot about the food chain sorry guys. I guess if your cham don't like pheonix worms, I guess its best to save the cash. Try gutloading and it will be better. If the pheonix worms dry out try addint a couple drops of water. It will rehydrate them. I got some hornworms but my cham is refusing food at the moment guess I'm going to have to keep them a little cool so they don't grow too fast.
 
DESERT DAVE said:
When Less Nutrients Are Absorbed Each Time Up The Food Chain, How Long Is The Best Time To Gutload Crickets. I Have Heard One Hour And I Have Heard Upto Four Hours. After Exposing Crickets To Collard Greens/scrambled Egg Mixture I Should Give Crickets To Chameleons In Two Hours? One Hour? More? Thanks In Advance, Dave
Click to expand...

I feed my crickets very small amounts of foods, but I try to gutload them for an hour before they are eaten. The whole hour is spent eating the fresh gutload since they are pretty hungry. If left any longer than 60 minutes, they stop eating and seem more interested in something else. If they are not eaten immediately (I mostly free range feed) then they'll still have it in them for quite a while.
 
goliath hornworms

Months ago I scoured the internet for days looking for a nutrition chart for hornworms and came up empty. I finally posted on another forum and a hornworm breeder was nice enough to send one to a lab for analysis. These are the results he got:

Fat 3.07%
Calcium 46.4mg/100g
Protein 8.87%
Moisture 85.61%

I found this surprising, since many have claimed the hornworm is high fat, but it actually has more protein than fat. The calcium level is also nice.
 
Wow! What A Great Bunch Of Feedback In Less Then A Week! The Goliath Worms Are Also Known As Horned Worms? I Am Assuming Since The Golath Worms I Have, Have A Large Spear Like Horn Growing From One End. From The Content Breakdown Brad And Will Attest To, These Things Are Chameleon Steroids. However Pricey. Treats! Like The Can Says. So I Mentioned I Gave 2 Sphinx Moths (big Ones, Seperate Days) To My Panther Female. I Know I Am Pushing It But Let Me Say This She Has Shown No Ill Effects And Has A Little More Energy. Anybody Familiar With The Sacks Or Growths That She Has On The Inside (external) Corners Of Her Eyes? If She Didn't Eat From My Hand So Well She Would Never Had Made It This Far. The Bags On Her Eyes Don't Seem To Bother Her Other Then Catching Food. When A Chameleon Set's To Shooot Her Tongue At Prey They Have Both Eye's Focused On It. These Bags Block Both Eyes From Focusing On Prey And I Would Like To Help Her. I Know Pic's Would Be Nice And I Continue To Struggle With That.
THANKS WILL, THANKS FLPANTHER AND THANKS BRAD.
ONE OF MY PREGNANT VEILED'S IS DIGGING AS WE SPEEK AND I AM RELEIVED SINCE IT'S BEEN 6 WEEKS SINCE CONCEPTION. WHAT DO I GET MYSELF INTO? STRESS!
 
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Brad, My Phoenix Worms Turned Black And The Matter In The Can They Came In Is Not Dry But Not Soaking Wet Either. I Rmember Putting In 10 Drops Of Water As Specified On The Can And It Went Downhill From There. I Will Ask The Petsore (who Are Somewhat Educated On Feeder's) What I Did Wrong. I Keep Them In My Office At 70-80 Degrees And Everythingelse Works Fine.
 
I know if you get them fresh (like ordering from the supplier) they tell you the container of worms should last 3+ weeks.
Perhaps these had been hanging around the petstore for awhile.
I had someone tell me the black ones were higher in calcium....that may well be but they are also dead and my chams not going to eat them.
Someone should start documenting all the funny and "interesting" info we get from petstore employees. It could make an amusing coffee table book.

-Brad
 
My cham wasn't interested in the phoenix worm larvae at all, but at the suggestion of the breeder I got the worms from, I've been allowing the larvae to pupate and turn into flies.

My cham goes crazy for the flies.
They have a scary appearance - they look like wasps - and it was with much trepidation that I first fed them to my cham. But the breeder assured me they were safe, and the article Kinyonga posted confirms this:
"Adults superficially resemble wasps, but have no stinger and are harmless"

I don't suppose the flies are anywhere as nutritious as the larvae (I'm not even sure that it's possible to gutload them), but as a treat and a way to stimulate my cham's appetite, they are a real boon.
They are much easier to raise than house-flies (and cleaner and less smelly), but they provide just as much 'flying-prey' stimulation to my cham.

You'll have to have quite fine mesh in your cage to avoid having them escape though...
 
Ugh, Soldier Flies are way too creepy, There's no way I could do it, lol. My chams LOVE Phoenix Worms, so I won't have to worry, but mind you, they'll eat anything that's put in their cups. Good luck with them creepy flies.. :p
 
I have them in my compost pile and feed them regularly to my Cham.She
loves them .My move quite rapid so i think this helps attract her and yes
she fully digest them.If your a gardner like myself I advise keeping a
compost pile or can and you will most likely have these in there during
the hot season.It's a lil nasty reaching in there and getting them but,it's just
old chopped fruit and veggies and Cham food, I tell myself:)
 
It's pretty much accepted that roaches are highly nutritional.
High meat to shell ratio and a softer exo-skeleton contribute to this.
I know of no specific analysis done on B. dubia but have one (somewhere)
on the American cockroach that showed it's protein percentages to be well over twice that of a cricket.

-Brad
 
Brad Ramsey said:
[snip]...I had someone tell me the black ones were higher in calcium....that may well be but they are also dead and my chams not going to eat them.
Someone should start documenting all the funny and "interesting" info we get from petstore employees. It could make an amusing coffee table book.

-Brad
Click to expand...

I think you should start the book! I have "pet store info" to contribute.

We tried Phoenix worms - since we have so many critters, our first order was 1000. Half arrived black; dead; or dying. The rest... well most ended up getting eaten by the beardies. The chams could have cared less - I kept getting these looks like "What do you expect me to do with those brown specks in my dish?" ... or "Do you have a magnifying glass so I can see what is in my dish?"... or "I asked for food - not appetizers!"
As for me... I hated the smell of them!

So... does anyone feed butter worms? I get them from a bait source a few times a year. They are plump; fruity smelling; easy to care for; bright colored to attract the cham or other lizard. The calcium content is high.

Another easy food we feed is house flies. We purchase the pupae, keep them in the fridge until needed. Hatch and release into the cages. The chams absolutely do gymnastics getting to the flies. It's really not too hard to do if anyone is interested. Maybe I could start a thread on it in the "Feeder" section (if one isn't already started).

House flies are a 'god send' to raising jacksons BTW....

~Morgana
 
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