Pics of my enclosure

[Tooboo]

Of course good Drainage is very important too, the earth should never become to marshy.

On impaction: Small amounts of earth occasionly shot whilst hunting, normaly won't harm your chameleon (Im talking 'bout earth not Retibark or similar crap). If it deliberately starts too eat earth, then you must consider your supplementation.

I'm aware there isn't just one way of chameleon husbandry, but as soon as people start to cry out "no substrate", or "no glass", I would like to put in my point of view.

with best wishes,
albacheck[/QUOTE]

Thanks Albacheck, this makes me feel a bit better. We do make sure the earth does not become marshy, and it is not reptibark. I must agree there is not just one way of chameleon husbandry, rather we should keep in mind the needs and try our best to meet these needs. I do monitor the humidity and temps daily, and will be moving him out of this enclosure once he is big enough for his screen cage, which I am in the process of building. bacteria will grow anywhere, the drainage is the soil, the plants... the lights will dry out the soil and the humidity will wet it again. This is a link I received from a forum member I think people need to review, focuses on glass cages and the fact that there is no "law of husbandry". http://www.chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=62

Thanks again for everyone's advice and input, I do take it all into consideration and will apply the "no substrate" suggestion to the screen cage when it is finished.

 

[martyllian]

Where in the north do you live, and where did you find that Tiny ficus?

I want one, all I can find are 5 ft tall ones around Illinois and Northern Michigan

 

[Tooboo]

I live in Ontario, the breeder I got my cham from gave me the ficus.

 

[crablady]

I agree.
In Germany the majority of Chameleon owners use a "special" type of substrate:
Basically what we do, is we go to the next forrest and dig out a barrow full of fresh forrest earth and chuck it into the enclosure.
Some people might cry out: "What the hell are you doing? Don't you know that this dirt is full of bacteria, slugs and other creepy-crawlies?
Yes, and thats excellent

I'll touch upon this topic later.
Let's first have a look at the clean US-way, without any substrate:
Because the bottom of the enclosure is wet, doodoo, leafs and dead feeders start to mold and a monoculture of bad germs can develop so that we consantly have to clean and disinfect our enclosure.
Meaning that we have to take out all of the plants and the chameleon out of its home every day, in order to clean it, which is connected with a lot of stress for the chameleon, shortening its lifespan and a lot of work for the keeper too.

Lets imagine we use a normal substrate like potting soil. The substrate will suck up most of the substrate, but dead feeders and poo still continue to rott unseen in the corners, so we still have to clean or swap the substrate regularly.

Now it's time to comeback to our forrest earth. In nature there is a variety of invertebrates and microorganisms called destruents, who rapidly start decomposing pieces of dead plants, or animals. And we can make use of them, through introdduncing them to our terrarium. These microorganisms prevent bad germs from reproducing in big amounts, and decompose poo and leafs in less than a week. If you're concerned about parasites, i can reassure you that it is very unlikely, that there are any parasites in the earth that could harm your chameleon, since most parasites are specific concerning their host. Additionaly the level of humidity is raised.

Of course good Drainage is very important too, the earth should never become to marshy.

On impaction: Small amounts of earth occasionly shot whilst hunting, normaly won't harm your chameleon (Im talking 'bout earth not Retibark or similar crap). If it deliberately starts too eat earth, then you must consider your supplementation.

I'm aware there isn't just one way of chameleon husbandry, but as soon as people start to cry out "no substrate", or "no glass", I would like to put in my point of view.

with best wishes,
albacheck

This is how i keep hermit crabs. Although i don't go out and get a barrow full of dirt for my hermits. i use EE, i do however, go out to my garden and dig up earth worms and rolly polly bugs. the rolly pollies eat both mold and crab poo! there are those that completely empty their hermit tanks every few months and clean everything and put it brand new clean EE. time consuming and killing all those good bugs that have built up! At the very most, all i do now is remove a small section at a time if i feel the need.

i'm new to chameleons so i'm going along with the sterile route for now, until i've gained the confidence to make my own judgements. i have my cresties in fully planted vivariums again implementing natures cleaner.and i plan to create a more natural environment eventually for my african fat tails too. i have a drainage layer of river pebbles in my cresties vivs but unfortunaltely i the hermies would just dig and make a mixed up mess of it all. Therefore i do need to keep an eye on how wet it gets.

 

[Sancho]

I live in Ontario, the breeder I got my cham from gave me the ficus.

Just do the following and you will be perfect

1.) Get a screen cage
2.) NO Substrate! Just use paper towels at the bottom of the cage

 

[Com4550]

That may well be good advice for someone who lives in a reasonable climate but here in the UK there's no way you could provide good housing tempertures and humidity on that advice.
We have to use part glass with substrater to obtain the temps and humidity, that apart I have been keeping Chameleons for aroud 10 years now and never had any problems with them eating it. But then I may have been lucky.

 

[Tom Carlier]

Is it common in the US that you don't use any substrate at all?
I know that in Holland and some other countries in Europe that they all use substrate too maintain the humidity, for the plants, for the females for their eggs.

I haven't heard of any breeder or keeper that they lost a chameleon because they used a substrate except for bark.

I second this !

In Belgium it is the same way.


Only had 2 chams yet, but none of them ate the substrate,

and I have never heard a story before of anyone who lost a cham due to impaction by substrate other than bark...

And cocopeat is easy to keep clean, doesn't stink or grow fungus or anything.
I just remove all bits and pieces that fall on the substrate. And replace it every few months

The plants are doing great in it, it keeps humidity high and if my cham falls of his branch, atleast he makes a soft landing...

Greetz

 

[casperpetersen]

all of my chams montium, roperi, cf dilepis, spinosus, tuberculata have substrate
soil or sand or a mixture between sand and soil ... and every one I know use some sort of substrate... I have never had any problemsand if you are afraid of some sort of nastyness just use springtails (Collembola) they will "take out some of the trash"

 

[ggazonas]

Now I don't know if this counts but I had a live plant in my enclosure and it started to die and dropped all its leaves. They are dried and big enough my cham can't swallow them. In this case I use the leaves as a sort of substrate to cover the bottom of the enclosure. Not to get off topic but is this okay?

 

[Sang]

its alright, but a tidy clean bottom is better, debris allows things *crickets , insects* and or bacteria to hide/manifest/grow.... i have seen my guy eat a dry leaf.



i know its not the prettiest thing , but a clear/open bottom is ideal.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Its true there are no laws or rules - each keeper has to determine what is best for their chameleon, their situation. Cocopeat is commonly used on the bottom of chameleon enclosures in europe. Some of those people dont even remove /replace / clean very often, if at all. For many of them, this has not meant the death of the chameleon. Bark has caused impaction, so avoid that for certain. I personally feel no substrate is a much better way to go. There are better ways to keep humidity up (such as not using an all screen cage).

 

[Eyal]

In Sweden we have rules/laws on reptile, rodent, dogs and cat husbandary. IF we do not follow these rules/laws we can get caught by some policemen, and we need to give our animal away.

Look, i see the problem using substrate to chameleons since they are highly weak against bacteria and fungus etc. But using substrate to other reptiles i see no problem with. I mean when i read about people in the US having snakes at home, they do not use any type of substrate. Some even use a concrete floor, so it will be easy cleaning. Well... then I ask myself, why? It look natural with substrate, the humidity increases.

But to chameleons, i would suggest a no. But not for its a risk being impacted. But for the risk of bacteria and fungus. There is always a risk for a cham to get impacted. And all the other animals, mammals and birds.

 

[ggazonas]

its alright, but a tidy clean bottom is better, debris allows things *crickets , insects* and or bacteria to hide/manifest/grow.... i have seen my guy eat a dry leaf.



i know its not the prettiest thing , but a clear/open bottom is ideal.

I understand the reasoning for the clean bottom, but like it was said before moving the chameleon around and his cage furniture places alot of stress on the animal. I'm not condoning the use of substrate because I lost my very first cham when I was younger to impaction ( and when I called the pet store up that I bought him from whom didn't mention this they then told me I wasn't suppose to do this, but I digress) But in my situatiob the leaves are large and I have seem him accidentally get the leave and not the cricket, however he tends to let the leaf go. Anyways for me I find it easy to remove leaves with poo.

I guess in y case I could do a total cleaning of the bottom of the cage every so often.