Please, don't be eggbound!?!?!

[solly]

I have a veiled that is about a year old. She has yet to lay a clutch. I am confident that she is carrying infertile eggs, and has been doing so for a little while now - at least a few weeks. She has been showing a lot of turqoise as of late and is quite bloated. She has also been spending time at the bottom of her enclosure. I have a laying bin set up with moist sand. I see marks from her walking in the sand from time to time. From my research, she has shown every sign that she is ready to lay. It just seems that she won't. The only possible thing I can think of prevetning her from laying is that her enclosure is in a traffic area. I can't do anything about it, as I live in a small space. She has adjusted to the traffic and doesn't seem to mind it much, but would that alone be keeping her from laying her eggs? Also, she is still very active. She has not been lethargic at all and is still eating well. Any help is appreciated.

Cage type - sreen terrarium, all sides. 18x18x36

Lighting - Exo-Terra SolarGlo 125w on a timer, 12/12

Temperature - 75-80 ambient, 90-93 basking. 65 ambient night. measured with a digital probe.

Humidity levels - 60-80%. misting twice a day, fogger on for a few hours.

Plants - fake.

Placement - traffic area, no vents, breezes, or drafts. cage stands about 6 feet tall.

Location - Toronto, Canada.

My chameleon - veiled, female, about a year old. in my care for 8 months.

Handling - not often, maybe once a month - when neccessary.

Feeding - a dozen or so large crickets every day - always gutloaded. a few silkworms or hornworms, once a week - which i dust with calcium w/ d3.

Watering - misting twice a day. i have never seen her drink.

Fecal description - brown, white, a little more yellow than normal.

 

[CleaTheChameleon]

I would say to give her privacy put towels over each side of the cage and get out of the room. When my female was infertile i did just that and i have a key to my room so i locked the door and when i wanted to go in i quietly opened the door got what i needed and got out. If you dont have a key(most people dont) just tell you family members not to go in there, They should understand

 

[kinyonga]

Can you post a picture of her please?

 

[solly]

Shitty pic, but here it is.

http://s934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/sollybolly/?action=view&current=DSCI0394.jpg

 

[kinyonga]

She is either carrying a lot of eggs or very fat. An x-ray should show you if its eggs. I really think you need to take her to a vet....I'm concerned that she could be eggbound.

Has she ever done any digging?

IMHO, you are feeding her way too much and overfeeding can lead to obesity and egglaying issues as well as possible constipation and prolapse.

Also, phos.-free calcium should be used on most feedings. I dust only twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder.

I also think that you need to switch to a Repti-sun 5.0 long linear fluorescent tube light instead of the one you are using....just my opinion.

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

I would say that she is either slightly obese or carrying eggs. Due to the fact that she is fed 12 crickets everyday I'd have to say its going to be a big infertile clutch. You have to control their feeding when they are pregnant. I was say probably 10 or 12 crickets every 2 or 3 days very lightly dusted with calcium without D3 at just about every feeding. The more they eat the bigger their clutches are usually. The bigger they are the bigger toll it takes on their body so try to avoid feeding everyday. If she basks under heat most of the day and roams the cage up and down the rest of the time that is normal. My female panther basks 70-80% of the day the week or two before laying. Good luck.


Justin

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

Wow great to see kinyoga posted the basically ezaxct same thing as I was typing my response. Lol. Definately let her be once she stops eating or cuts back eating significantly because in the next few days after that she will lay the eggs. If she stops eating for over 5 or 6 days and still hasn't laid then becomes lethargic and isn't digging anymore or hasn't dug at all then she would most likely be eggbound, but if she is still eating and active then she seems ok. Just give her lots of water.

 

[solly]

In all honesty, that pic makes her seem much larger and more bloated than she actually is. I think the branch is pushing on her stomach and making it look larger. But, thanks for the advice. I felt that I may have been overfeeding her and have already cut back on her feeding. Concerning the calcium... I'm up in the air on this one. I have heard vets and nutritionists say that most cham owners over supplement, especially with calcium, and I've heard some say the opposite. I provide calcium moderately, so that way, I'm somewhere in between the differing opinions.

 

[pssh]

It's not the calcium that you're over supplementing. It's the d3. They can overdose on it. Use plain calcium a few times a week and d3 calcium twice a month. Also, if she's pregnant, you can't cut back on food, she'll need it for the eggs. A vet could determine the problem for you.

 

[solly]

Don't most people cut back on feeding when expecting infertile eggs? I haven't cut back too much... I still feed her everyday, just not nearly as much.

 

[OOOst16]

well first off cover her cage sides with a material so she cant see traffic. i keep my male vield in my dinning room, as he has grown he has got more defensive. i have paper covering the sides so he canont see out ( dont freak hes got plenty of ventilation ) it depends on your cage. but since he could see out of all 4 sides...and there was people walkign around he got scared. so covering 2 sides and levaing the side twards and away from the wall resolved this problem

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

People cut back when tehy don't want a female overproducing, along with lowering the temps a few degrees . The hotter it is and teh more she is fed the more eggs she will produce and the more often she will produce them. Yes she still does need food but if you over feed you will definately be adding some extra eggs into that clutch that is probably already going to be big since she is a veiled. Yes the D3 is what will kill your chams if you give them too much. Since they have UVB lights on them they can still produce d# from the calcium they ingest. Also when I say very lightly dust the crickets I mean to say that the dust should only make them very very slightly lighter in color, they should not be ghost crickets, thats where you run into problems with too much calcium.


Justin

 

[pssh]

I thought you mean that you reduced it to the 'regular' amount and fequency. As long as you're feeding her a small amount everyday she should be fine. However, I'd take her to the vet if I was you to see if she really does have eggs or not... Then you can be sure about the feeding, because if she doesn't have eggs, the extra food could make some...

 

[solly]

Thanks for all the input guys.

I've cut her feeding and have put a towel over the two sides of her enclosure that are visible to traffic. She has been pretty active and her demeanor is still normal, so I'm not going to panic. If I see anything out of the ordinary, I'll get her to the vet asap. My real concern was that she has been carrying eggs for a long time, but the truth is, I can't be certain as to exactly how long she has been carrying, so I can let myself worry too much yet.

Again, thanks a bunch and I'll give you an update soon!

 

[solly]

Update.... She's been given her privacy and has seemed to enjoy it! She caught me peeking once or twice... I hope it didn't bother her much. Most importantly, she hasn't eaten in two days and seems to be fixated on the bin. She won't stop staring at it! I have my fingers crossed!

 

[kinyonga]

OldSkoolxReasons said..."You have to control their feeding when they are pregnant"...as pssh said..."Also, if she's pregnant, you can't cut back on food, she'll need it for the eggs.". The time to cut back is before they are producing eggs, when they are still developing follicles IMHO.

OldSkoolxReasons also said..."they can still produce d# from the calcium they ingest"...they don't produce D3 from the calcium the ingest...they produce D3 from exposure to the UVB and then that D3 enables them to use the calcium in their system. If you give them calcium but you don't provide UVB or D3 supplements they won't be able to use the calcium. If you give them D3 from supplements you can overdo it...exposure to UVB as long as they can move in and out of the UVB is much safer and shouldn't lead to an overdose.

solly said..."Concerning the calcium... I'm up in the air on this one. I have heard vets and nutritionists say that most cham owners over supplement, especially with calcium, and I've heard some say the opposite. I provide calcium moderately, so that way, I'm somewhere in between the differing opinions"...D3 from supplements and preformed vitamin A build up in the system and thus shouldn't be overdone. Its harder to overdo the calcium....as long as you don't make the insects look like ghosts there shouldn't be a problem with it. Here is a good article about it and some about D3 and vitamin A...
An Overview of Calcium Supplementation
By: Matthew Wheelock, D.V.M...
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-section-b-metabolic-bone.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20060421.../index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20060502...rnals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html

solly said..."Don't most people cut back on feeding when expecting infertile eggs?"...the idea is to feed the females well for a couple of days after they lay the eggs (IMHO it doesn't matter if the eggs are fertile or infertile for this)...and then cut back to prevent her from growing too many follicles into eggs. Once they are producing eggs you want them to have the nutrients to build the eggs without depleting their own bodies...so you want to feed them well without overdoing it. This is just my take on it all...what works for me.

solly said..."She caught me peeking once or twice"...its when she's digging or in the hole that she's digging that its important not to let her see you. If she is up in the branches it should be fine for her to see you.

Hopefully she will still lay the eggs and everything will be fine.

 

[solly]

UPDATE... Camille layed her eggs today!!! There didn't seem to be any problems.

A couple questions guys... When should I take the laying bin out? How do I know she's done? Do I continue her normal routine?

 

[kinyonga]

Once she's back up in the branches you can take the bin out and dig up the eggs. If they are infertile its still important to dig them up to make sure she really did lay them and to count how many she laid. I recommend keeping a laying bin in the cage from now on so that she can dig when needed.

 

[solly]

40 eggs! I've attached a pic!