please help a new worried chameleon mom!!! sick panther!

JadesMom

JadesMom

New Member

OK so my cousin gave me her panther chameleon about a month ago. She didn't properly care for her so when I got her (I didn't know it yet) she was dehydrated. Now that I know, she has developed more problems since. She now is regularly keeping both of her eyes closed, sometimes she will even walk around trying to grab onto the air with both eyes closed. It's horrible to watch. I have taken her to the vet and I personally feel like it was a waste of money because the vet didn't even know the sexually mature age for her. And then the vet gave me a care sheet for veiled chameleons.... I was livid. And she claimed to be an exotic vet.
Anyway, I know about as much as I can read on chameleons and now need help from experienced owners. I have only seen her eat 2 crickets in the passed week. She may have ate more but I doubt it. I haven't ever seen her drink water. Since I've had her she is a very light pale green with pinkish orange stripe going down her side. She is about 8 months old. Her poo looks like how I read it is supposed to look. The "vet" is having me give her .02 cc of metacam once a day cause she said her sinuses look inflamed and that takes down inflammation, for 10 days. Also she is having me give her .05cc once a day of calcium glubionate, for what reason she didn't make clear. I bought some eye drops that are just to help dry eyes and are not medicated and I've been trying to give her those twice a day. Today and yesterday she seemed to be doing better than she has in a couple weeks. She was walking around and awake today. But as it got towards the evening, she seemed to be going back to not doing well.

As far as her setup goes..... it's been frustrating. She has an all screen cage but given the fact that she's dehydrated I have closed up the entire cage except for the front door to try and keep it really humid while she's trying to get better. But the brand new waterfall I bought her is leaking somewhere and now there is about a half inch of water at the bottom of her cage. There is moss at the bottom so she is OK for now until I figure out how to fix this problem. She has a hide, artificial vines and plants. The humidity stays in the tropical rage on the little dial I have and the temp in the middle of the cage is normally about 75°f. She has an auto mister that mists every two hours for about a minute or a little longer. Which by the way she hates so much, another question I have, she does this head bobbing thing when the mist comes on and she right away tries to get away from it. I don't know what to do.
She has a uvb 5.0 reptisun and a red basking light.

Somebody please help me. I feel like I'm running around with my head caught off and I just don't want to lose her. I hate feeling like I can't help her get better. I hate to see her not feeling good.





 
Sorry your chameleon is not doing well. I would remove the water fountain because it is more trouble than its worth (it would need to be cleaned every day to prevent buildup of bacteria). Misting the leaves, a dripper, or both is sufficient for watering. Usually chameleons will lick the water droplets off leaves.

If your panther is predominantly green, it is probably male because females are primarily pink or brown. A picture would really help here. Does she keep her eyes closed at all times? If so, she won't be able to drink or eat on her own because they need to be able to see to find water droplets and prey. You mentioned that she is dehydrated, are her eyes sunken in? You can help her drink by dripping water above her mouth, and hopefully she will open it and lick the water.

Note that there should be no lights at night. If the temp drops below 50F, you would need a ceramic heat emitter or other heating source that does not emit light.

You can find a lot of good info in the following guide:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/

It would really help people get a better idea of what is going on if you post pictures and copy and paste the following form with answers filled in:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/
 
Thank you for your response! I will fill out the questions and post here, I will also post pictures. I have a ton.

She was mostly green for a while (very close to white) but lately her entire body has been pink and I thought It was because she didn't feel good.

For the most part she's been keeping her eyes closed at all times. The vet that I had mentioned, told me to feed her baby food, chicken or turkey, if she didn't improve soon, so I'm going to go buy some today. Jade is so stubborn though, I can't get her to open her mouth, any suggestions? When I watched the vet do it I almost punched the vet cause it looked like she was hurting my baby. Her eyes are not sunken in. I was reading about showering them? Can you explain that? I've been having her soak in like a half inch water for 15 min but I read that doesn't really help?

I will definitely take the waterfall out, I'm so frustrated with it. I will also start turning the heat lamp off at night. I don't think it gets below 50 in there but I'll check.

I'll be back with pictures and filled out questions. Thanks again!
 
Welcome to the forums. I am sorry to hear that your girl is not feeling well. Some photos and filling out the form above would be very helpful. Do you have a laying bin for her? Females often lay eggs without a male even being around and if not provided a proper laying bin they can become egg bound and die. Where do you live? I might be able to help you locate a more qualified chameleon vet.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/
 


Swelling around neck





what used to be her everyday color





her, now, pink color










where she slept last night and still is right now.



Your Chameleon*- Panther Chameleon, Female, approx 8 months.

How long has it been in your care? About a month and a half

Handling*- How often do you handle your chameleon? Right now, every day to give meds and check on her.

Feeding*- What are you feeding your cham? Crickets
What amount? I just make sure there is always some in her cage
What is the schedule? Whenever she wants
How are you gut-loading your feeders? Orange cubes for crickets.

Supplements*- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Nothing right now, but I do have rep-cal phosphorus free calcium with vitamin D3 that I give to my bearded dragon, (would that work for her?)

Watering*- What kind of watering technique do you use? Automatic mister, once every 2 hours for a little over a minute.
Do you see your chameleon drinking? No

Fecal Description*- white urate, dark brown poo. Half dollar size. Normal solid consistency.
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
No

History*- has had left eye shut since I got her, and the actual eye looks cloudy almost, different from the other. she can open both eyes but only does so when she needs to see what I'm doing. Or when she's scared.

Cage Info:Cage Type*- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) All screen but entirely covered up (except the front) right now while I'm trying to hydrate her.
What are the dimensions? 18x18x36


Lighting*- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? Reptisun 5.0 uvb, and red basking light. In a deep dome fixture.
What is your daily lighting schedule? Turn on uvb bulb in the morning and off when going to bed, always leaving red light on.

Temperature*- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Cage floor- about 65-70
Mid cage- 75-80
Basking/top- 80-85

Lowest overnight temp? 60
How do you measure these temps? Humidity and temp dials that go in cage.

Humidity*- What are your humidity levels? 50-70%
How are you creating and maintaining these levels? Automatic mister and watetfall
What do you use to measure humidity?
Little dial that sticks to side of cage

Plants*- Are you using live plants? No
If so, what kind?


Placement*- Where is your cage located?
On top of my dresser in my bedroom.

Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? No
At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Approx 5'9"

Location*- Where are you geographically located?
Colorado

Current Problem*- keeping eyes shut, lethargic, not eating, dehydrated, seems to be somewhat swollen around the neck.
 
I do not have an egg laying bin, but I will watch the video and get one asap! Thank you! I live in Denver Colorado
 
Sorry your chameleon is not doing well. There are several things that need changing, some of them have been addressed by the other members. I would not put Dry Eyes in her eyes! They contain chemicals that may be more harmful than helpful. Plain saline can be used to flush the eyes, but that is usually used if you suspect there is something in the eye. Seeing both are closed, I do not believe that to be the case. The swelling around her neck is a condition called Gular Edema. It is a build up of fluid in the tissue. It is not fatal, and at this point that is not the biggest worry that you have right now. She could very well have eggs and not having a place to lay could be her down fall. I would have her xrayed for eggs to rule that out. If she has them, that is most likely causing all the problems. Do not soak her in water. It is not really going to do anything. The shower is for hydration to get them to drink. Most people use a tall potted plant, with the chameleon perched on it and bounce the shower head off the wall onto their chameleon and plant. With her eyes being closed, this may not work. If she is not drinking, you can take an eye dropper and drip water on her nose. You might have to do this for several minutes before she will be stimulated to drink. If you get her to turn around, you need to remove that thing hanging on the vine. Chameleons do not go in hideouts like that like other reptiles do. Over time, it is going to rot out from the mister being wood and may begin to mold. I am not sure why you have it hanging there. What you should do is add more foliage all over the cage, especially at the top where you chameleon can perch on a vine and hide behind or in the foliage of the plant. Calcium with no d3 should be given daily, or at most feedings and the d3 calcium along with a multivitamin should be used a couple of times a month. Also, feed your crickets fresh fruits and vegetables like kale, mustard greens, carrots, apples, oranges...etc things of that nature instead of the cubes.
 
I would recommend removing the red light and during the day only using a regular incandescent household light. They don't need heat at night unless it goes below 60F

The following information can apply to your beardie as well...
Regarding feeding/gutloading the insects...I recdommend for crickets, roaches, superworms and locusts using a wide assortment of greens such as dandelions, kale, endive, escarole, collards, etc. and veggies such as carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, etc. This can also be used as a "salad" for your beardie....along with a small amount of fruit such as melon, berries, apple, pear, etc.

For supplements its recommended that you dust at most feedings with a phos. free calcium, twice a month with a phos. free calcium/D3 powder and twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene source of vitamin A.

You've already been advised about the eggs and the fountain (I think).
 
Your Chameleon*- Panther Chameleon, Female, approx 8 months.

How long has it been in your care? About a month and a half

Handling*- How often do you handle your chameleon? Right now, every day to give meds and check on her.
what meds?

Feeding*- What are you feeding your cham? Crickets
What amount? I just make sure there is always some in her cage
What is the schedule? Whenever she wants
How are you gut-loading your feeders? Orange cubes for crickets.
Very poor nutrition from those orange cubes. Worthless really. I don't even use them for hydration. I'd throw all of those out and start over with healthy vegetables to impart good nutrition. You can read more about how to improve and maintain nutrition here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/446-basics-gutloading.html

Supplements*- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Nothing right now, but I do have rep-cal phosphorus free calcium with vitamin D3 that I give to my bearded dragon, (would that work for her?)
Yes, but only every few weeks because of the vitamin D3. As a female she especially needs excellent calcium supplementation. You need plain calcium without D3 to be used every feeding. If she's not developing eggs yet eventually she will be and that will drain her calcium stores rapidly if she's not getting enough on a regular basis.

Watering*- What kind of watering technique do you use? Automatic mister, once every 2 hours for a little over a minute.
good!

Do you see your chameleon drinking? No
Probably because there is nothing in her cage to drink off of. They don't drink directly from the misters themselves, but from the water collecting on leaves of plants. There aren't really any leaves in her cage that could collect water. She needs a nice big plant to take up all that empty space in her cage! It will make her feel more protected, which reduces stress, and allow her to drink like normal. That and a laying bin to be in her cage at all times permanently.

Fecal Description*- white urate, dark brown poo. Half dollar size. Normal solid consistency.
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
No

History*- has had left eye shut since I got her, and the actual eye looks cloudy almost, different from the other. she can open both eyes but only does so when she needs to see what I'm doing. Or when she's scared.
This sounds like an infection or less likely an injury.

Cage Info:Cage Type*- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) All screen but entirely covered up (except the front) right now while I'm trying to hydrate her.
What are the dimensions? 18x18x36


Lighting*- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? Reptisun 5.0 uvb, and red basking light. In a deep dome fixture.
What is your daily lighting schedule? Turn on uvb bulb in the morning and off when going to bed, always leaving red light on.
Go ahead and turn the red light off at night as well. The drop in temperatures actually helps their metabolism function better. As long as the temperature does not drop below 60 then you don't need to worry at all. I use all household white bulbs for my chams' basking bulbs, as do many many others. They are more similar to the light from the sun to simulate more normal environment and behavior. Turn all lights off at night.

Temperature*- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Cage floor- about 65-70
Mid cage- 75-80
Basking/top- 80-85
I would bump it up to 90 at basking while she's trying to fight off infection/illness. She'll move lower if it's too warm for her.

Lowest overnight temp? 60
How do you measure these temps? Humidity and temp dials that go in cage.

Humidity*- What are your humidity levels? 50-70%
How are you creating and maintaining these levels? Automatic mister and watetfallas others have said, remove the waterfall as it is just a breeding ground for bacteria. And since there aren't good surfaces to drink off if she's using that for drinking that could have caused an eye infection while she was down there and gross water droplets splashed in her face.

What do you use to measure humidity?
Little dial that sticks to side of cage
Very inaccurate. Much better to use a digital gauge. For example, my dials are reading "tropical" but the digital next to it is reading 40% right now. You can get a temp and humidity digital gauge in the garden section at Home Depot/Lowes very inexpensively.

Plants*- Are you using live plants? No
If so, what kind?
Live plants will help keep up humidity in this very dry climate and give her both a feeling of protection and place to drink from. The moss at the bottom of the cage is a hazard and should be removed. It is a breeding ground for bacteria and mold in a wet environment like that and she might accidentally grab some of that while hunting for crickets and it can cause digestive problems.

Definitely start with these corrections and come see me for the rest. :)
 
Carol5208-

the eye drops I am using are systane balance and they are a lubricant eye drop. they don't say that they are medicated and they seem to help Jade keep her eyes open more. The vet said to buy those for her, do you still think that I should stop them? I'm not sure if something is in her eyes or they are dry but she does rub them often, the left more than the right.
Unfortunately, I don't think I can take her to get an x-ray because I cant afford it, however, I did make an egg laying bin for her that is now available for her use. I removed the hide, other decorations and the waterfall. You were right about the wood that was in there, it was starting to grow mold. I added more fake vines that have a ton of leaves on them. Do you think I need more than whats is shown in the picture? I bought more, just don't know how much to put or how to get them to stay in place.
I will get calcium without D3 to give to her daily.
Will switch to fruits and veggies for the crickets.
Thank you so much!!





Kinyonga-
Thank you very much for the tips on gut loading. Im sure my Freddy (beardie) will love that salad! haha




Jannb-
Thank you so much for the link to ferretinmyshoes! I will be in soon to see her!




Ferretinmyshoes-
Thank you so much for your response!
The meds she is on are 0.02cc of metacam, the vet said she thinks Jade's sinus' are swollen and that helps with inflammation, for 10 days. I've been giving it to Jade about every other day just because she hates it so much. Advice? Also, 0.05cc of calcium glubionate, also about every other day but that is supposed to be for 21 days. Then of course, the eye drops I mentioned.
I will definitely look into better gut loading.
Does she absolutely need a live plant or will the new vines with leaves I got her suffice? I'd rather not have to try and take care of a plant in there too. I will get her one if you say so.
Does the egg bin I made look right? I used hermit crab coconut soil. perfect for holding a tunnel shape, which I also made a couple for her already. I placed her in the bin but she right away got out. We did that about 3 times so she knows its there.
Her left eye, I think has an infection. I'm not sure why she closes the right one but she rubs the left one a lot, and almost always has it closed. When she opens the left one, it looks cloudy, I can't see the pupil or anything really.
I will make the adjustments with the lights and temperatures asap.
I have removed the waterfall. I don't think that's where she got the infection because I had just got the waterfall and it wasn't in her cage for more than 5 days.
I will get the humidity and temp dial from lowes, thanks for the tip!

The only reason I have the moss in there is because she has fallen quite a few times and it provides cushion if she does. I changed the moss yesterday to all new moss. Is it ok if I leave it in there if I continue to change it often or should I still take it out?

Thank you all again so much!!
 
Hi all....

So I just force fed Jade. It was horrible. I mashed up about 5-7 wax worms, added a little water, forced her the liquid first, then the mash. The wax worms were dusted with repticalcium without d3. I hope none of the liquid got in her lungs, I tried to be as gentle as you can when forcing. Then I gave her, her meds. I know everyone's busy and stuff but I feel like precious time is wasting and I haven't heard back from anyone so I'm just wingin' it. But I feel like I haven't seen her eat or drink pretty much at all. And so I'm going to start forcing unless there's a better way? Please help
 
P.s. she did this kind of gasping thing when I forced her the liquid. She like tilted her head back and up all the way and left her mouth open real wide, she stood like that for a while and then I finally just started to drip more liquid down her tongue and then she closed her mouth. I don't know if that was right or wrong or what. I don't know.
 
Did you ever take Jade in for a vet visit with Dayna (ferret) ? I would have her X-rayed to see if she has eggs. They often stop eating when they have eggs. You have to be very careful when force feeding. They can aspirate on just a tiny drop of water. I use a syringe without the needle and usually when they get a taste of the mashed up worms I can get them to lick if when a put a bit on their nose. To get one to drink, I give extra long warn mistings either outside or in the shower. I mist for like 30 to 45 minutes. I will see if I can find a really good blog about getting them hydrated in the shower and attach it for you. iMO I think you need to get her to the vet and find out what's going on. Also maybe it's just the picture but the soil in the laying bin looks dry. What kind of soil is that?
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ataraxia/594-shower-chamber-treatment.html
 
I do want to get her in the vets and I talked to ferretinmyshoes and I'll get her in next week earliest Wednesday but I can't afford an xray. I used hermit crab coconut soil. It's pretty damp, I've been checking it. How can I mist her in the shower?
 
I don't think she is going to take well to that. She hates it when the mister come on in her cage :/
 
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