PLEASE HELP! Eyes closed. Crusted and already saw a vet!

[Cwitch]

Hi, I'm new here and really hoping to receive some guidance (this is going to be a long one, sorry in advance).
I rescued a male, adult veiled chameleon that was in really bad shape back in July and was not provided any information on him. I named him Pascal. It appears that he was too close to the heating element in his last enclosure and severely burnt his veil. Also, it seems that maybe he had a vitamin deficiency? Because the ridges on his back are not all formed correctly, and some of his teeth were different colors but not like mouth rot. He was having issues with his eyes crusting when I first got him, so I took him to an exotic vet in Roseville, Ca. and they prescribed him ceftazidime (per/ 1cc every 72 hours) and tobramycin (1 drop per eye, every 24 hours). It seemed to help a little, but his eyes were still crusting but it was infrequent. I moved back to Oregon and took him to another vet, and they stated that this is going to be a lifelong condition for him and to "deal with it." Then Wednesday, November 6, 2024, I saw Pascal's right eye looking as though it had pus or a film over it and the left was crusted over, and he was refusing to open it. I immediately called the vet for an emergency appointment and unfortunately, the way they triage is the doctor reviews the notes, and they call you back if they will take your emergency. As of Friday, they had not called me. I was giving him baths, which seemed to help loosen the crust and allow him to open his eyes on his own.

I was able to get into another vet who prescribed him ofloxacin (1 drop each eye, 2-3 times daily). I'm running the shower (indirectly) for him, hoping that the steam and backsplash will hopefully help him open and clear his eyes. He was opening his eyes in the shower, and I know it's only been four days, but I haven't seen an improvement with the eyedrops. He is also drinking in the shower. I am open to constructive criticism on anything I can do better, or what I need to do to get him feeling better. Thank you in advance!!!

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species: Veiled Chameleon sex: Male, and age of your chameleon: unknown How long has it been in your care? a little over 3 months.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon: rarely, but due to having to administer medication daily. He doesn't seem to mind being held and often doesn't want to go back in his enclosure when you try to put him back in there.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham: a variety. Crickets, dubai roaches (my son raises them), horned worms, wax worms, BSFL, occasionally silkworms and butter worms.
What is the schedule: 8:30am automatic lights and mister. On days I work, I've already fed the cham before he's woken up. On days I'm off, I feed him around 8:30-9am.
How are you gut-loading your feeders: Fresh fruits and vegetables, Repashy bug burger
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule: M/W/F: Zoomed Repti Calcium without D3, Tuesday: Lugarti Reptile Probiotics & Lugarti Reptile Protein Powder Thursday/Sunday: Zoomed Reptivite- Vitamins with D3 Saturday: Lugarti bee pollen
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use: Mist King auto mister. How often and how long to you mist: 1am (30 sec), 6:45am (45 sec), 8:45am (15 sec), 12:45pm (30 sec), 4pm (30 sec), 6:45pm (15 sec), 8:45pm (30 sec), 10:45pm (30 sec)
Do you see your chameleon drinking: yes, but unsure if he has been because of his eyes.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings: brown and white. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites: not that I am aware of.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Burns to veil, possible vitamin deficiency?
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?): Exo Terra screen cage. What are the dimensions? 24x18x36
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using: ReptiZooT5 UVB 24" With Bulb T5 HO Bulb, Zilla heat lamp- 100 Watt
What is your daily lighting schedule: 8:30am - 8:30pm
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot): 75-92 regulated by thermometers and automatically turns off. Lowest overnight temp: 73 How do you measure these temps: multiple thermostats
Humidity - What are your humidity levels: 67% during the day (unsure at night, I just got a new hygrometer) How are you creating and maintaining these levels: Misting multiple times a day What do you use to measure humidity: hygrometer
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? : Yes, 2 pathos
Placement - Where is your cage located: on top of a table. Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas: Next to a window on a table away from fan and vents. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor: About 5'6" feet from the floor.
Location - Where are you geographically located: Brookings, OR.
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
Please see above.
Cage Info: 24x18x36 Exo Terra cage with drip pan under screen floor, 2 live plants in cage, many fake plants and foliage, many vines and branches throughout enclosure, one closer to right/ top for basking, ledge feeder, Lugarti dripper.

 

[Gloriawood]

Hello and welcome!!! I am sorry Pascal isn’t feeling well. I do not have time to do a full review right now, but what jumps out at me is the supplements. I’m sure someone else will be along later today that can do an in-depth review for you.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule: M/W/F: Zoomed Repti Calcium without D3, Tuesday: Lugarti Reptile Probiotics & Lugarti Reptile Protein Powder Thursday/Sunday: Zoomed Reptivite- Vitamins with D3 Saturday: Lugarti bee pollen

repticalcium without D3 should be used every feeding expect twice a month (one day every other week). At these feedings you will use reptivite with D3. I would cut the probiotics and protein powder. The reptivite has all the multivitamins and extra stuff he needs. I would also be careful with the bee pollen. It is good for them, but can easily be over done and cause issues. I’ve seen lots of keepers have better luck feeding it to their bugs rather than their chams. I’m not a vet, but I’m willing to bet his eye issues are from incorrect supplement schedule. Most of the time this is what causes eye issues. IF this is the case, it may be quite a while before you see improvement after changing it. He just has to work the extra supplements out of his system. This can take a while. I would also up your misting times. 2 minutes in the morning and 2 before bed. This is long enough to trigger his drinking urge and to clean his eyes. You may even consider 3-5 min in the morning to really give him a good chance to clean those eyes out.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. You’ve already gotten some great feedback. I just want to add a bit more and warning that I talk a lot.
First, showers are not at all good for chameleons. Besides causing much stress, even what we perceive as lukewarm, can be scalding hot to a chameleon. Instead, do as @Gloriawood suggested with much longer misting times of at least 2 minutes twice a day and make the morning one much longer if needed. Your daytime humidity is much too high at 67% and with your high basking temp, creates a risk for respiratory infection. If you decrease the frequency of your misting as advised, that should bring your humidity down to the ideal range of between 30-50%. Basking temp is a bit high at 92. It’s better to keep it at 85 max. It’s very hard to tell from your pics, but the distance between your basking area and lights should be 8-9”. Your enclosure is a bit smaller than the recommended size of 2x2x4’. For chams, I believe bigger is even better if possible.
Great advice already on your supplements and if you didn’t know already, the ReptiVite with D3 is perfect for helping eye problems as it contains the preformed type of vitamin A which we know chameleons are able to utilize. Definitely stop using the protein supplement. A diet too high in protein can cause gout and kidney issues. I would advise against giving that to your feeders as well. The bee pollen has anecdotally been linked with edema. That you can give to your feeders occasionally. Also, I would advise against feeding daily. Although much of his casque is gone, it does look a bit wide at the base and definitely his cheeks are puffed with excess fat. Veileds are very prone to obesity as they will just eat forever. A good diet would be to give him about 3 feeders either every other day or even 3 days a week. I feed all of mine every Mon, Wed & Fri and one of the days on the weekend will give a treat, like a superworm, hornworm or whatever I happen to have. You do have a very nice variety of feeders. I don’t know if you’ve yet noticed, but our veiled friends like to nibble at their plants. Because of this it’s important that they have only clean, safe and real plants. It takes only one bite of a fake leaf to potentially cause a bowel obstruction. I like to put a taller center plant, like a schefflera, weeping fig or other similar and then lots of pothos and others that are veiled safe. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Even if you only use pothos, that’s fine. If you place one on the floor and train it upwards, the leaves will grow larger. I put my fake plants on the outside of the door to provide a little extra sense of privacy. I do advise removing the black Exo Terra vine. Those tend to shed tiny particles that always make their way into chameleon eyes. And we’re back at his eyes. Honestly, I can’t tell you what is wrong with them. I can’t even tell you if the problem is actually his eyes, his sinuses or something else. I almost have to wonder if the problem is somehow related to the burn he had. That burn took off most of his casque and went pretty low and close to the vital parts of his head. I doubt that you really have much information about what type of treatment he received for it and how prompt it was. Another thing to consider is how the excess fat stored in his casque and cheeks might be affecting his eyes. Chameleons are more sensitive to being overly chunky and it really can cause problems for them. It sounds that you haven’t really found a vet who has much experience with chameleons. Unfortunately they are few and far between and many of us have to travel a little bit for our good vets. I’m attaching the vet list we have and I hope it’s of some help to you. It looks like they haven’t been vouched for since 2012. Maybe @jannb knows of a good vet in Oregon near you. I really hope you can get it all figured out and healed for your guy.
Also, I know I’m only pointing out things that could use improvement, but really you’ve got an excellent start and that is not an easy thing. There’s tons of old and incorrect info out there that too many fall victim to.

 

[jannb]

Here’s a list of reptile vets in Oregon.

Oregon​

Beaverton — Southwest Animal Hospital
Corvallis — West Hills Animal Hospital (Dr. Vickstrom)
Eugene — Santa Clara Animal Hospital
Portland — Avian and Exotic Veterinary Care
Portland — Northwest Neighborhood Veterinary Hospital (Dr. McCormack)

 

[ERKleRose]

Welcome on here! You’ve got almost everything covered by these great keepers! The only thing I’ll add is that his uvb needs to be replaced with a different brand fixture and bulb, as ReptiZoo doesn’t have good bulbs or fixtures. If possible, get the Arcadia ProT5 uvb kit with the 6% Arcadia uvb bulb (replace the bulb yearly). The other option is a Zoo Med 5.0 T5 bulb and fixture (replace bulb every 6 months). You’ll want the distance from basking branch to uvb bulb to be 8-9” apart! Let us know if you want links, and I wish you luck at the vet!

 

[Cwitch]

Hello and welcome!!! I am sorry Pascal isn’t feeling well. I do not have time to do a full review right now, but what jumps out at me is the supplements. I’m sure someone else will be along later today that can do an in-depth review for you.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule: M/W/F: Zoomed Repti Calcium without D3, Tuesday: Lugarti Reptile Probiotics & Lugarti Reptile Protein Powder Thursday/Sunday: Zoomed Reptivite- Vitamins with D3 Saturday: Lugarti bee pollen

repticalcium without D3 should be used every feeding expect twice a month (one day every other week). At these feedings you will use reptivite with D3. I would cut the probiotics and protein powder. The reptivite has all the multivitamins and extra stuff he needs. I would also be careful with the bee pollen. It is good for them, but can easily be over done and cause issues. I’ve seen lots of keepers have better luck feeding it to their bugs rather than their chams. I’m not a vet, but I’m willing to bet his eye issues are from incorrect supplement schedule. Most of the time this is what causes eye issues. IF this is the case, it may be quite a while before you see improvement after changing it. He just has to work the extra supplements out of his system. This can take a while. I would also up your misting times. 2 minutes in the morning and 2 before bed. This is long enough to trigger his drinking urge and to clean his eyes. You may even consider 3-5 min in the morning to really give him a good chance to clean those eyes out.

Thank you for the recommendations! I will definitely be changing the supplement schedule and see if that has any impact in the meantime. I'm wondering if it's exacerbating the eye issues that he already had, because when I rescued him, he was having crusty eye problems as well. Thank you again.

 

[kinyonga]

You’ve been given lots of good information and advice so far.
So good of you to rescue this chameleon!

I’m not a vet and only speak from experience and what I have learned in keeping chameleons, etc.

I’m wondering if that swelling on his left cheek is an infection? Maybe something to do with the burnt casque?

 

[Cwitch]

Hi and welcome. You’ve already gotten some great feedback. I just want to add a bit more and warning that I talk a lot.
First, showers are not at all good for chameleons. Besides causing much stress, even what we perceive as lukewarm, can be scalding hot to a chameleon. Instead, do as @Gloriawood suggested with much longer misting times of at least 2 minutes twice a day and make the morning one much longer if needed. Your daytime humidity is much too high at 67% and with your high basking temp, creates a risk for respiratory infection. If you decrease the frequency of your misting as advised, that should bring your humidity down to the ideal range of between 30-50%. Basking temp is a bit high at 92. It’s better to keep it at 85 max. It’s very hard to tell from your pics, but the distance between your basking area and lights should be 8-9”. Your enclosure is a bit smaller than the recommended size of 2x2x4’. For chams, I believe bigger is even better if possible.
Great advice already on your supplements and if you didn’t know already, the ReptiVite with D3 is perfect for helping eye problems as it contains the preformed type of vitamin A which we know chameleons are able to utilize. Definitely stop using the protein supplement. A diet too high in protein can cause gout and kidney issues. I would advise against giving that to your feeders as well. The bee pollen has anecdotally been linked with edema. That you can give to your feeders occasionally. Also, I would advise against feeding daily. Although much of his casque is gone, it does look a bit wide at the base and definitely his cheeks are puffed with excess fat. Veileds are very prone to obesity as they will just eat forever. A good diet would be to give him about 3 feeders either every other day or even 3 days a week. I feed all of mine every Mon, Wed & Fri and one of the days on the weekend will give a treat, like a superworm, hornworm or whatever I happen to have. You do have a very nice variety of feeders. I don’t know if you’ve yet noticed, but our veiled friends like to nibble at their plants. Because of this it’s important that they have only clean, safe and real plants. It takes only one bite of a fake leaf to potentially cause a bowel obstruction. I like to put a taller center plant, like a schefflera, weeping fig or other similar and then lots of pothos and others that are veiled safe. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Even if you only use pothos, that’s fine. If you place one on the floor and train it upwards, the leaves will grow larger. I put my fake plants on the outside of the door to provide a little extra sense of privacy. I do advise removing the black Exo Terra vine. Those tend to shed tiny particles that always make their way into chameleon eyes. And we’re back at his eyes. Honestly, I can’t tell you what is wrong with them. I can’t even tell you if the problem is actually his eyes, his sinuses or something else. I almost have to wonder if the problem is somehow related to the burn he had. That burn took off most of his casque and went pretty low and close to the vital parts of his head. I doubt that you really have much information about what type of treatment he received for it and how prompt it was. Another thing to consider is how the excess fat stored in his casque and cheeks might be affecting his eyes. Chameleons are more sensitive to being overly chunky and it really can cause problems for them. It sounds that you haven’t really found a vet who has much experience with chameleons. Unfortunately they are few and far between and many of us have to travel a little bit for our good vets. I’m attaching the vet list we have and I hope it’s of some help to you. It looks like they haven’t been vouched for since 2012. Maybe @jannb knows of a good vet in Oregon near you. I really hope you can get it all figured out and healed for your guy.
Also, I know I’m only pointing out things that could use improvement, but really you’ve got an excellent start and that is not an easy thing. There’s tons of old and incorrect info out there that too many fall victim to.

@MissSkittles first and foremost, you rock. Thank you. Yes! A LOT of information, but I appreciate it and am grateful. I think I was an example of falling victim to a great deal of misinformation, sadly. Thank you for all of the recommendations, and I apologize for the delay in responding. I never even considered his casque possibly being a contributing factor to his eye issues. I, unfortunately, have no idea what treatment he received, how prompt, or how closely they followed the recommendations from the vet (assuming he went). Thank you again for taking the time to respond and I am actively working to fix these issues, one by one!

 

[Cwitch]

Here’s a list of reptile vets in Oregon.

Oregon​

Beaverton — Southwest Animal Hospital
Corvallis — West Hills Animal Hospital (Dr. Vickstrom)
Eugene — Santa Clara Animal Hospital
Portland — Avian and Exotic Veterinary Care
Portland — Northwest Neighborhood Veterinary Hospital (Dr. McCormack)

@jannb thank you for the recommendations! Unfortunately, and sadly, because we're so rural, all of these are minimum 4 1/2 hours away. But I do appreciate your time to respond to my post.

 

[Cwitch]

Welcome on here! You’ve got almost everything covered by these great keepers! The only thing I’ll add is that his uvb needs to be replaced with a different brand fixture and bulb, as ReptiZoo doesn’t have good bulbs or fixtures. If possible, get the Arcadia ProT5 uvb kit with the 6% Arcadia uvb bulb (replace the bulb yearly). The other option is a Zoo Med 5.0 T5 bulb and fixture (replace bulb every 6 months). You’ll want the distance from basking branch to uvb bulb to be 8-9” apart! Let us know if you want links, and I wish you luck at the vet!

Thank you, @ERKleRose! I heard the Arcadia kits are where it's at. I'll look them up tonight. I appreciate the help!

 

[Cwitch]

You’ve been given lots of good information and advice so far.
So good of you to rescue this chameleon!

I’m not a vet and only speak from experience and what I have learned in keeping chameleons, etc.

I’m wondering if that swelling on his left cheek is an infection? Maybe something to do with the burnt casque?

@kinyonga Thank you very much for the support. I honestly feel bad because he was in such bad shape and I read so much misinformation online, I clearly didn't help as much as I thought. @MissSkittles mentioned possibly the burnt casque too, which is really interesting because I've been reading how important it is to them and their health. I'm going to bring it up to the vet at his follow up appointment. Thank you so much for the recommendation, I really appreciate it.

 

[Cwitch]

Thank you all for the recommendations and support. I apologize for my delay in responding, I was trying to read and incorporate all of your advice (chipping away at one thing at a time) and take care of him still while adulting. I just wanted to update everyone. The vet recommended saline eye flushes, the ofloxacin (1 drop each eye, 2-3 times daily), and she had made the recommendation to have his temp at 92 (due to him being sick). I lowered it, due to the recommendations here, not to discredit her but I'm fully aware she has not treated chams before. If he doesn't make significant improvements, she's wanting to add an injectable antibiotic. I increased the length of the misting in the morning and evening, got the humidity down to 50% (it fluctuates, but often slightly lower.) He was not eating at all, but I was able to hand feed him a few feeders today with the help of my fiancé. He's now opening his eyes and attempting to bulge and clean them on his own. He's still not active in his enclosure but I'm hoping this is progress. I was trying to find an online chameleon vet (at the advice of my friend) but I'm hitting a roadblock. There's another exotic vet two hours away that I think I'm going to try if this persists. I just don't really know what else to do. Thank you all again. I sincerely appreciate everyone's time, thoughts, and consideration.

 

[Gloriawood]

Thank you all for the recommendations and support. I apologize for my delay in responding, I was trying to read and incorporate all of your advice (chipping away at one thing at a time) and take care of him still while adulting. I just wanted to update everyone. The vet recommended saline eye flushes, the ofloxacin (1 drop each eye, 2-3 times daily), and she had made the recommendation to have his temp at 92 (due to him being sick). I lowered it, due to the recommendations here, not to discredit her but I'm fully aware she has not treated chams before. If he doesn't make significant improvements, she's wanting to add an injectable antibiotic. I increased the length of the misting in the morning and evening, got the humidity down to 50% (it fluctuates, but often slightly lower.) He was not eating at all, but I was able to hand feed him a few feeders today with the help of my fiancé. He's now opening his eyes and attempting to bulge and clean them on his own. He's still not active in his enclosure but I'm hoping this is progress. I was trying to find an online chameleon vet (at the advice of my friend) but I'm hitting a roadblock. There's another exotic vet two hours away that I think I'm going to try if this persists. I just don't really know what else to do. Thank you all again. I sincerely appreciate everyone's time, thoughts, and consideration.

Sounds like you are doing everything you can. Just take it one day at a time, and ask as many questions as you need. @MissSkittles and @kinyonga are the best around so you are in good hands. It’s a lot of info, so just keep doing like you are and making changes one by one. I’m rooting for you and Pascal!