Please help me identify solutions to stressed veiled

[rangothechameleon1]

Hey yall,

I’ve got a female veiled chameleon who is about 8-9 months old. We got her at about 4 months old in August from PetSmart thought she was a male (that’s what petsmart told us) until we researched it a month later.

She did go through a bout of bone sickness because we weren’t feeding her properly but we addressed it early and were able to get her back to normal activity and mood.

Other than that period, since we have had her she has for the most part stayed a vibrant green except when something scared her and then she would only turn a little black. Now she seems to have had this black coloration from stress for the last 5 days and she also seems a little bigger than she should.

Looking for any ideas or advice from people with experience raising female veiled chameleons

Diet:
100% house crickets from petsmart (always gut loaded with some grain mixes and calcium fortified cricket quenchers) 2 times per day and around 5 crickets each time

Since she started appearing bigger and appeared stressed I’ve reduced to 1 feeding per day about 5 crickets

UVB:
Stays in all day, tube style light on right side of the top of the cage (pictured)

Heat lamp:
Before I had it on 12 hours a day but since she started appearing bigger and stressed I’ve been shutting it off at mid day

Fogger:

Since I got this I’ve been pretty much running it all day and night some days more than others on the left side of the cage so she can cool off if she needs or get some water plus I spray with a bottle multiple times per day

Cage:

I know we have the small 16*16*36 cage but it’s what we can afford right now and she hasn’t had problems that appeared to visibly stress her up till now



This whole setup is pretty low budget but I’m working with limited resources right now. Any advice on alternatives that aren’t 500 dollars would be great!

 

[kinyonga]

She is quite likely producing eggs. You need a proper egg laying bin in her cage at all times now or she could very likely become eggbound.

(In your cage photo, I can’t see clearly what the plants are planted in…but the soil in there isn’t likely giving her room to dig.)

Although you have given us some information, it would be better if you could answer the questions (with as much detail as possible) in this thread…
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. What supplements are you using and by what schedule? I agree that she does look like she’s working on some eggs and advise giving her the largest lay bin that you can fit in her enclosure. Here’s my blog on caring for our ladies. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/veiled-chameleon-laying-101.2488/ and here’s the questions that it would be best for you to answer so we can provide more complete assistance.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[rangothechameleon1]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

A: Veiled Chameleon, Female, approx 8-9 months (according to petsmart who also said she was a male)

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

A: Once per week

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

A: 100% house crickets from petsmart, 5-10 per day, 5 in the morning 5 in the evening, crickets are fed with calcium fortified orange gel quenchers and cricket feed from petsmart 24 hours before feeding. All crickets are dusted with calcium power without D3 before feeding.
I’ll typically place crickets around enclosure so my chameleon has to move around to find them.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

A: zoo med repticalcium without d3
5-10 crickets I feed her everyday are dusted before feeding

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

A: using an Amazon bought fogging machine to give moisture in cage. It is off to the side and spraying diagonally such that she can avoid the fog if she wants and can rest under it if she wants more moisture. It also drips quite frequently so she can get the water directly if she wants. I also spray the cage with a spray bottle covering all the leaves about 3-4 times daily. Two times in the morning before she wakes up and before I leave for work and also before and after she goes to sleep at night.

The fogging machine is on close to full blast at night through a half inch diameter tube and during the day I have it on minimum just do it drips occasionally and she can cool off if she needs

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

A: her poop is consistently one piece of light to dark brown poop coupled with about an equal or smaller amount of white liquid poop.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

She got MBD (not diagnosed by professional) about 2 or 3 months into owning her I believe it was a month ago now when we fixed that problem.

This was due to me not dusting her crickets and not gut loading them which I have since made sure to do. She seems to be completely recovered from that as it lasted about 2 or 3 weeks from the start of the problems to her being back to normal.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

A: cage is a full screen cage, I believe repribreeze. 16” by 16” by 36”

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

A: ZooMed brand T5 UVB, as well as a ZooMed 50watt basking lamp both are located directly on top of the reptibreeze screen about 2-3 inches from the basking branch. Lights stay on from about 8 in the morning till it gets dark at 6-7 pm so about 11 hours. I’ve been shutting the heat lamp off midday since she started to look gravid because I heard that it may cause her to grow more eggs and I want to keep the number down. That’s why I’ve also been cutting her food in half

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Daytime temperature is around 75-80 degrees by the basking spot.

Nighttime temperature is 65-70 degrees at the same elevation. Measured with a small probe we got with the reptibreeze cage

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

Not sure about humidity levels. Like I mentioned above, I’m using a digger to blow a stream of humidity but it’s kind of hard to maintain humidity in the screen cage. I also spray 4 times per day all the false leaves to build up humidity. Just measuring humidity by eye

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Just using false plants to give her a sense of security and hiding spots.

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Cage is below a ceiling fan that is almost always off. I am not sure if it is better to have that running or if having a full screen cage is fine.

She is in a room that is only really occupied during the morning and nighttime in the back corner of the house. Not a high traffic area and all sides facing people are covered with false leaves hanging on the screen walls.

The top of the cage is about 5’ 6” high so the basking branch is about 5’3” my daughter is about 4’ tall so she is plenty below the chameleon and besides my daughter really no one is in the room ever unless I’m getting food or cleaning the cage for the chameleon.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

DALLAS TEXAS

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

She started to get dark spots along her body which appears to be stress. I just put a laying bin and after I added more leaves to cover her enclosure she seems less stressed and now has a box to lay her eggs. Will update post when I see updates.

 

[rangothechameleon1]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

A: Veiled Chameleon, Female, approx 8-9 months (according to petsmart who also said she was a male)

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

A: Once per week

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

A: 100% house crickets from petsmart, 5-10 per day, 5 in the morning 5 in the evening, crickets are fed with calcium fortified orange gel quenchers and cricket feed from petsmart 24 hours before feeding. All crickets are dusted with calcium power without D3 before feeding.
I’ll typically place crickets around enclosure so my chameleon has to move around to find them.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

A: zoo med repticalcium without d3
5-10 crickets I feed her everyday are dusted before feeding

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

A: using an Amazon bought fogging machine to give moisture in cage. It is off to the side and spraying diagonally such that she can avoid the fog if she wants and can rest under it if she wants more moisture. It also drips quite frequently so she can get the water directly if she wants. I also spray the cage with a spray bottle covering all the leaves about 3-4 times daily. Two times in the morning before she wakes up and before I leave for work and also before and after she goes to sleep at night.

The fogging machine is on close to full blast at night through a half inch diameter tube and during the day I have it on minimum just do it drips occasionally and she can cool off if she needs

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

A: her poop is consistently one piece of light to dark brown poop coupled with about an equal or smaller amount of white liquid poop.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

She got MBD (not diagnosed by professional) about 2 or 3 months into owning her I believe it was a month ago now when we fixed that problem.

This was due to me not dusting her crickets and not gut loading them which I have since made sure to do. She seems to be completely recovered from that as it lasted about 2 or 3 weeks from the start of the problems to her being back to normal.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

A: cage is a full screen cage, I believe repribreeze. 16” by 16” by 36”

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

A: ZooMed brand T5 UVB, as well as a ZooMed 50watt basking lamp both are located directly on top of the reptibreeze screen about 2-3 inches from the basking branch. Lights stay on from about 8 in the morning till it gets dark at 6-7 pm so about 11 hours. I’ve been shutting the heat lamp off midday since she started to look gravid because I heard that it may cause her to grow more eggs and I want to keep the number down. That’s why I’ve also been cutting her food in half

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Daytime temperature is around 75-80 degrees by the basking spot.

Nighttime temperature is 65-70 degrees at the same elevation. Measured with a small probe we got with the reptibreeze cage

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

Not sure about humidity levels. Like I mentioned above, I’m using a digger to blow a stream of humidity but it’s kind of hard to maintain humidity in the screen cage. I also spray 4 times per day all the false leaves to build up humidity. Just measuring humidity by eye

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Just using false plants to give her a sense of security and hiding spots.

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Cage is below a ceiling fan that is almost always off. I am not sure if it is better to have that running or if having a full screen cage is fine.

She is in a room that is only really occupied during the morning and nighttime in the back corner of the house. Not a high traffic area and all sides facing people are covered with false leaves hanging on the screen walls.

The top of the cage is about 5’ 6” high so the basking branch is about 5’3” my daughter is about 4’ tall so she is plenty below the chameleon and besides my daughter really no one is in the room ever unless I’m getting food or cleaning the cage for the chameleon.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

DALLAS TEXAS

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

She started to get dark spots along her body which appears to be stress. I just put a laying bin and after I added more leaves to cover her enclosure she seems less stressed and now has a box to lay her eggs. Will update post when I see updates.

 

[MissSkittles]

Give me a little bit of time and I’ll go over your husbandry.

 

[MissSkittles]

I’ll be using bold and breaking this into two parts.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

A: Veiled Chameleon, Female, approx 8-9 months (according to petsmart who also said she was a male) Many of the chain pet stores often get it wrong.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

A: Once per week It would be of benefit to work on building trust. This s a great blog about that. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

A: 100% house crickets from petsmart, 5-10 per day, 5 in the morning 5 in the evening, crickets are fed with calcium fortified orange gel quenchers and cricket feed from petsmart 24 hours before feeding. All crickets are dusted with calcium power without D3 before feeding.
I’ll typically place crickets around enclosure so my chameleon has to move around to find them.
First, I’m afraid you are overfeeding her. She should be getting only about 3-4 feeders, either every other day or preferably, three days a week. However, from her plumpness she has likely already started forming a clutch of eggs and so you don’t want to reduce her diet that far until she lays them. She needs the nutrition to continue forming them. I would advise though to reduce her to one feeding in the morning only so she has all day to digest her food properly.
Secondly, you want to provide much more variety of food to her. Crickets are a good staple, but add some different feeders, like dubia/discoid roaches, silkworms, bsfl, grasshoppers, etc. Graphic below.
Then you want to care for your buggies better so that they are as healthy as possible and will be more nutritious. The various cubes, gels and just about every insect food you can buy at the chain pet stores will keep the bugs alive for a bit, but not healthy. Give fresh (preferably organic) produce, avoiding spinach and kale.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

A: zoo med repticalcium without d3 This is good to use to lightly dust at every feeding, but she also needs a source of D3 and a multivitamin. The easiest way to do this is to use either Repashy calcium plus LoD or Reptivite with D3 lightly dusted at one feeding every other week (or twice a month if you prefer).
5-10 crickets I feed her everyday are dusted before feeding

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

A: using an Amazon bought fogging machine to give moisture in cage. It is off to the side and spraying diagonally such that she can avoid the fog if she wants and can rest under it if she wants more moisture. It also drips quite frequently so she can get the water directly if she wants. I also spray the cage with a spray bottle covering all the leaves about 3-4 times daily. Two times in the morning before she wakes up and before I leave for work and also before and after she goes to sleep at night.
You never want to fog during the day or when temps are above 68F. Heat plus high humidity increases risks for respiratory infection. You want to instead spray or mist the leaves twice a day, for two minutes each time and right before lights go on and off. If needed, you can add a shorter 1 minute spray or use a dripper for about 15 minutes a day. Go by the color of the urate. All white to with a little touch of yellow on one end is perfect. Dark yellow or orange is a sign of needing to increase hydration.
The fogging machine is on close to full blast at night through a half inch diameter tube and during the day I have it on minimum just do it drips occasionally and she can cool off if she needs YouTube only want to fog at night if you have temps below at least 68F. This is a way to enhance hydration, similar to natural hydration in the wild thru fog.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

A: her poop is consistently one piece of light to dark brown poop coupled with about an equal or smaller amount of white liquid poop. It’s always a good idea to have a fecal check, especially if she came from a chain pet stores and/or you are getting her feeders from a chain pet stores.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

She got MBD (not diagnosed by professional) about 2 or 3 months into owning her I believe it was a month ago now when we fixed that problem. You know I am going to ask how it was that you knew she had mbd? I do see an indicator of mild mbd in her front leg. I also have to ask for more specifics of how you fixed the problem.

This was due to me not dusting her crickets and not gut loading them which I have since made sure to do. She seems to be completely recovered from that as it lasted about 2 or 3 weeks from the start of the problems to her being back to normal.

I have an appointment I need to run off to. If no one else finishes this, I’ll do so when I get back.

 

[MissSkittles]

Part two coming up.

 

[MissSkittles]

Do pardon if I repeat anything that may have already been said.
Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

A: cage is a full screen cage, I believe repribreeze. 16” by 16” by 36” This is needing to be upgraded to at least a 2x2x4’ or bigger if you can. I’m all for providing them as much space as we can. I’m blessed to have the space to give all of mine double sized enclosures and they do use it…even my girls. Providing a pic below for you to see the difference in sizes of the 16x30” vs the 24x48”. You also get to see how my enclosures were when I was new and learning.

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

A: ZooMed brand T5 UVB, Ok, but what is the strength of your uvb bulb? It is written on the end of the bulb and will be either 5.0 or 10.0 if ReptiSun. as well as a ZooMed 50watt basking lamp both are located directly on top of the reptibreeze screen about 2-3 inches from the basking branch. Wayyy too close! You want a distance of about 8-9” from lights to basking branch (provided your uvb is the correct strength). Lights stay on from about 8 in the morning till it gets dark at 6-7 pm so about 11 hours. Good. Just a tip - timers are awesome if you don’t already have one. I’ve been shutting the heat lamp off midday since she started to look gravid because I heard that it may cause her to grow more eggs and I want to keep the number down. Yes, but not quite. When temps are too warm (over 80F) and combined with being fed too much is when they will produce a large number of eggs. However, it’s fine to turn off the basking light at mid day as chameleons in the wild don’t spend all day basking…just a portion of the day. Some keepers reproduce this. That’s why I’ve also been cutting her food in half Do you mean she’s been getting more than 10 feeders daily? It’s possible that you started this too late for it to make a difference. Until they actually lay their first clutch of eggs, it’s a challenge to figure out when to reduce their feeding enough.

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Daytime temperature is around 75-80 degrees by the basking spot.

Nighttime temperature is 65-70 degrees at the same elevation. Measured with a small probe we got with the reptibreeze cage Both your day and night temps are perfect.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

Not sure about humidity levels. Like I mentioned above, I’m using a digger to blow a stream of humidity but it’s kind of hard to maintain humidity in the screen cage. I also spray 4 times per day all the false leaves to build up humidity. Just measuring humidity by eye You need to get a hygrometer. The ideal range for daytime is between 30-50%, which is much dryer than we think. I already told you about not using a fogger during the day.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Just using false plants to give her a sense of security and hiding spots. Veileds like to nibble their plants and especially the girls. My girl has the saddest looking plants from her devouring them. It takes only one nibble of a fake leaf to cause a bowel obstruction, which can be fatal if not caught early enough. I’m attaching graphics of safe plants. Pothos is fantastic for chams. I like having a tall center plant, like schefflera or money tree and then my smaller plants around. I’ve taken my fake plants and attach them to the front of my enclosures to give my chams a sense of privacy. I’m also attaching a pic of one of my enclosures to give you an idea of a good set up. You’ll need to figure out a way to attach things without using the fragile screen. There are Dragon Ledges, which are awesome. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ Lately I’m using garden trellis that I secure to the enclosure frame.

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Cage is below a ceiling fan that is almost always off. I am not sure if it is better to have that running or if having a full screen cage is fine. Just make sure that the ceiling fan doesn’t effect your basking temps.

She is in a room that is only really occupied during the morning and nighttime in the back corner of the house. Not a high traffic area and all sides facing people are covered with false leaves hanging on the screen walls.

The top of the cage is about 5’ 6” high so the basking branch is about 5’3” my daughter is about 4’ tall so she is plenty below the chameleon and besides my daughter really no one is in the room ever unless I’m getting food or cleaning the cage for the chameleon. Ok, good. Chams feel safest when we are below them.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

DALLAS TEXAS

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

She started to get dark spots along her body which appears to be stress. I just put a laying bin and after I added more leaves to cover her enclosure she seems less stressed and now has a box to lay her eggs. Will update post when I see updates.
There’s stress darkening of patterns and then there’s being gravid, which also darkens the colors and patterns. See my blog for some examples I included in it of my two girls who displayed their markings very differently. It will also help with the laying process and all. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/veiled-chameleon-laying-101.2488/ Do ask if you have any questions or I haven’t been clear about anything. I’ll keep an eye out for your answers to the questions I asked.