Please help respiratory infection in 1 1/2 yr old veiled.

[Ryleyflynn]

Really desperate for some help with my guy gangus. Seen 2 different “exotic” vets in the past few weeks because he has been gaping at the mouth constantly. As in he has his mouth open more than closed- as of today. I assumed a respiratory infection. Brought him in and they said to give him a bath and increase humidity. Can you hear my eyes rolling? Also gave him 2 doses of panecure. Finally got them to prescribe baytril 2 weeks later after they gave me CARNIVORE CARE to keep his weight up. So absurd. In the mean time, I gave reptaid a shot for the 14 days. Saw no improvement in appetite or the gaping. He won’t eat or drink ANYTHING. Today is the third day of Baytril along with benebac and I’m seeing no improvement. I know baytril is strong, and a broad spectrum antibiotic that may not work. I don’t know what else I should be doing to aid in recovery. I mix bee pollen and water and use a syringe to help his immune system. I used a fogger overnight (which I never use) to hopefully aid in hydration. Today I have him outside in his old cage so he can get some natural light and fresh air. Please, any advice would be appreciated. Background- Been in my care around 6 months, he is in a 2x2x4 screened cage. 5.0 T5 HO UVB and a 60 watt incandescent frosted bulb for heat. Basking temps 85-87. He has a pothos, dragon tree, bird of paradise and a croton. And a couple small fake leaves in the corner. I spray his cage down twice a day for a minute at 8 am and 8 pm. He used to drink from a water bowl. I handle him once a week at most. But, administering the medication has been hard when he’s in the cage so I have to get him out for that. He usually eats gut loaded Dubai’s, super worms, horn & silk worms. The past month, he would only eat hornworms. Now nothing at all. His poop looks very normal as well as urate. I supplement calcium 4x a week w/o d3 and with d3 once/month with no phosphate. Reptivite once/month.

 

[Sonny13]

Hi, I’m no expert on this and someone will jump in quickly. However it seems that your basking temps are a bit on the high side. Normally they recommend 80. and considering you just mist twice a day, morning and evening, humidity can’t be that high. The water bowl would be a no-go either, its bacteria sensitive. What’s his color all day? It could be more from the heat then respiratory. Thus he point his nose in the air as well? Or do you hear a popping sound, when he’s breathing?

 

[Sonny13]

Maybe useful for others that jump in, to fill out this form https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ if you haven’t done it already. Thanks!

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[kinyonga]

Please post a few photos of your chameleon from the side so I can see all of it please!

 

[Ryleyflynn]

Hi, I’m no expert on this and someone will jump in quickly. However it seems that your basking temps are a bit on the high side. Normally they recommend 80. and considering you just mist twice a day, morning and evening, humidity can’t be that high. The water bowl would be a no-go either, its bacteria sensitive. What’s his color all day? It could be more from the heat then respiratory. Thus he point his nose in the air as well? Or do you hear a popping sound, when he’s breathing?

Hmm, okay. Gonna lower temps a bit. Humidity stays around 50%. I feel like any water source would be bacteria sensitive if not Cleaned properly or regularly? Can I ask what you use? His colors are definitely more dull when he’s in his cage. When he comes out vibrant yellow and green. No noise when he’s just still, but when he’s climbing around I can hear him struggling to breathe. No popping sound just multiple harsh breaths when he pulls himself up.

 

[Ryleyflynn]

Please post a few photos of your chameleon from the side so I can see all of it please!

Please post a few photos of your chameleon from the side

The fake plants have been taken down and a ficus is being added right now for more coverage

 

[kinyonga]

I'm trying to look at his arms and whole body...can you post a couple more showing them more clearly please.

 

[Sonny13]

50% should be okay during daytime and 70% till max for the night, after temps have dropped should be perfect. Myself using a fogger at night, however it’s not a direct must (some are for and are against) I’ve good results with it. And I one time extra at night.

. I feel like any water source would be bacteria sensitive if not Cleaned properly or regularly?

True, can’t argue that! Normally chameleon drink drops from leaves or from the mister. However not a point discussion for now.

Okay, he’s gasping outside his basking area, that would rule out heat.

considering you just mist twice a day, morning and evening, humidity can’t be that high.

I meant with this, normally a respiratory infection is result of a too high daytime humidity and that couldn’t be your case.

Hopefully someone else with experience, like @kinyonga, can help you further,

 

[ERKleRose]

50% is the max for veiled daytime humidity. 30-50% is the range, but the lower end of that is best.

 

[Beman]

If you could fill out the help form with detail that would be great... One thing from the cage pics that I am seeing is your boy can not get close enough to the UVB lighting. You need a basking vine or branch 8-9 inches below a T5Ho fixture with a 5.0 bulb.

 

[Ryleyflynn]

If you could fill out the help form with detail that would be great... One thing from the cage pics that I am seeing is your boy can not get close enough to the UVB lighting. You need a basking vine or branch 8-9 inches below a T5Ho fixture with a 5.0 bulb.

Really! Wow, I was told to move any branches further from the uvb. I will definitely add another branch. Thank you!

 

[Ryleyflynn]

I'm trying to look at his arms and whole body...can you post a couple more showing them more clearly please.

I tried to attach to this reply! Also the heat lamp was not on when he was on it in first pic.

 

[Beman]

I tried to attach to this reply! Also the heat lamp was not on when he was on it in first pic.

Can you fill out the form that was posted above for you? Little man is obese and from the pictures it looks like he has edema. I believe there is a lot more going on then just an RI... Have you actually heard wheezing? I am honestly wondering if the gaping is due to him being so overweight and pressure on his lungs. @kinyonga what do you think?

 

[kinyonga]

Did the vet do by bloodwork?

I tend to agree that your chameleon is overweight. That could be the reason he's gaping.

 

[kinyonga]

Sometimes the gaping can be do to heart issues or even kidney or liver issues...no way to tell for sure without a vet's help.

 

[Ryleyflynn]

Can you fill out the form that was posted above for you? Little man is obese and from the pictures it looks like he has edema. I believe there is a lot more going on then just an RI... Have you actually heard wheezing? I am honestly wondering if the gaping is due to him being so overweight and pressure on his lungs. @kinyonga what do you think?

Yes, do I just post in replies? Wow, he weighs 130 grams.. I guess he’s cutting back now. I have also wondered about edema, I hear wheezing a lot when he’s moving, not as much when he’s still.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."Really desperate for some help with my guy gangus. Seen 2 different “exotic” vets in the past few weeks because he has been gaping at the mouth constantly. As in he has his mouth open more than closed- as of today. I assumed a respiratory infection. Brought him in and they said to give him a bath and increase humidity. Can you hear my eyes rolling? Also gave him 2 doses of panecure."...why a bath? Did they say he has a respiratory infection? Why panacure? Did they do a fecal test? Did they say anything about his obesity?

You said..."Finally got them to prescribe baytril 2 weeks later after they gave me CARNIVORE CARE to keep his weight up."...he should be eating something but he needs to be on a diet. Did they do bloodwork?

You said..." In the mean time, I gave reptaid a shot for the 14 days. Saw no improvement in appetite or the gaping. He won’t eat or drink ANYTHING. Today is the third day of Baytril along with benebac and I’m seeing no improvement. I know baytril is strong, and a broad spectrum antibiotic that may not work. I don’t know what else I should be doing to aid in recovery"...what's the antibiotic for? Why not just give him the water?

You said.... "I mix bee pollen and water and use a syringe to help his immune system"...are you careful that he doesn't aspirate it?
How often have you been feeding him and how much do you feed him at each feeding? I wouldn't be using too much bee pollen. Too much of anything isn't good.

You said..."I used a fogger overnight (which I never use) to hopefully aid in hydration"... Are you using the fogger or not?
What color have his urates been? Has he been pooping before he stopped eating? Is he nibbling the plants? Please remove the fake plants. Do you have a substrate in the cage?

You said.... "Today I have him outside in his old cage so he can get some natural light and fresh air"... That's good.

You said..." Please, any advice would be appreciated. Background- Been in my care around 6 months, he is in a 2x2x4 screened cage. 5.0 T5 HO UVB and a 60 watt incandescent frosted bulb for heat. Basking temps 85-87."...I would lower the temperatures to the lower 80'sF.

You said..."He has a pothos, dragon tree, bird of paradise and a croton. And a couple small fake leaves in the corner. I spray his cage down twice a day for a minute at 8 am and 8 pm. He used to drink from a water bowl"...water bowls can be full of bacteria and are not recommended.

You said..."I handle him once a week at most. But, administering the medication has been hard when he’s in the cage so I have to get him out for that"...not a problem.

You said..."He usually eats gut loaded Dubai’s, super worms, horn & silk worms. The past month, he would only eat hornworms. Now nothing at all"... How much does he eat in a week? How often have you been feeding him?

You said..."His poop looks very normal as well as urate"...white urates?

You said..."I supplement calcium 4x a week w/o d3 and with d3 once/month with no phosphate. Reptivite once/month."...should be twice a month with the phos free calcium/D3 powder and vitamin powder. Does the vitamin powder have prEformed vitamin A in it? D3?

So, he is wheezing when he breathes? Excess stringy saliva in his mouth?

Please be aware that I'm not a vet....I can only give my opinion.

 

[Beman]

Yes, do I just post in replies? Wow, he weighs 130 grams.. I guess he’s cutting back now. I have also wondered about edema, I hear wheezing a lot when he’s moving, not as much when he’s still.

Yes, copy and paste it into your reply then fill it out with as much detail as possible. I would love to know how your getting the weight. 130 grams does not add up for what I am visually seeing in the images.

 

[Ryleyflynn]

You said..."Really desperate for some help with my guy gangus. Seen 2 different “exotic” vets in the past few weeks because he has been gaping at the mouth constantly. As in he has his mouth open more than closed- as of today. I assumed a respiratory infection. Brought him in and they said to give him a bath and increase humidity. Can you hear my eyes rolling? Also gave him 2 doses of panecure."...why a bath? Did they say he has a respiratory infection? Why panacure? Did they do a fecal test? Did they say anything about his obesity?

You said..."Finally got them to prescribe baytril 2 weeks later after they gave me CARNIVORE CARE to keep his weight up."...he should be eating something but he needs to be on a diet. Did they do bloodwork?

You said..." In the mean time, I gave reptaid a shot for the 14 days. Saw no improvement in appetite or the gaping. He won’t eat or drink ANYTHING. Today is the third day of Baytril along with benebac and I’m seeing no improvement. I know baytril is strong, and a broad spectrum antibiotic that may not work. I don’t know what else I should be doing to aid in recovery"...what's the antibiotic for? Why not just give him the water?

You said.... "I mix bee pollen and water and use a syringe to help his immune system"...are you careful that he doesn't aspirate it?
How often have you been feeding him and how much do you feed him at each feeding? I wouldn't be using too much bee pollen. Too much of anything isn't good.

You said..."I used a fogger overnight (which I never use) to hopefully aid in hydration"... Are you using the fogger or not?
What color have his urates been? Has he been pooping before he stopped eating? Is he nibbling the plants? Please remove the fake plants. Do you have a substrate in the cage?

You said.... "Today I have him outside in his old cage so he can get some natural light and fresh air"... That's good.

You said..." Please, any advice would be appreciated. Background- Been in my care around 6 months, he is in a 2x2x4 screened cage. 5.0 T5 HO UVB and a 60 watt incandescent frosted bulb for heat. Basking temps 85-87."...I would lower the temperatures to the lower 80'sF.

You said..."He has a pothos, dragon tree, bird of paradise and a croton. And a couple small fake leaves in the corner. I spray his cage down twice a day for a minute at 8 am and 8 pm. He used to drink from a water bowl"...water bowls can be full of bacteria and are not recommended.

You said..."I handle him once a week at most. But, administering the medication has been hard when he’s in the cage so I have to get him out for that"...not a problem.

You said..."He usually eats gut loaded Dubai’s, super worms, horn & silk worms. The past month, he would only eat hornworms. Now nothing at all"... How much does he eat in a week? How often have you been feeding him?

You said..."His poop looks very normal as well as urate"...white urates?

You said..."I supplement calcium 4x a week w/o d3 and with d3 once/month with no phosphate. Reptivite once/month."...should be twice a month with the phos free calcium/D3 powder and vitamin powder. Does the vitamin powder have prEformed vitamin A in it? D3?

So, he is wheezing when he breathes? Excess stringy saliva in his mouth?

Please be aware that I'm not a vet....I can only give my opinion.

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, 1.5 yes, been in my care 7 months.
• Handling - once/week max, now everyday to administer meds.
• Feeding - Dubai’s, horn & silk worms, wax worms. He hasn’t eaten his typical 5-7 feeders/day in around 1 month. Now he will only eat silk & horn worms which I know should only be used as treats. Try to give around 9 am. Gutload with watercress, Papaya, yellow squash, sweet potato
• Supplements - repticalcium with no d3 4x/week and fluckers repticalcium once/month and will be bumping to twice a month.
• Watering - I hand spray once for 30 seconds lights on and again for 30 when lights go out. I clean and supply fresh water every morning with small clear cups. I haven’t seen him drink from leaves, I had a dripper which seemed pointless, I have seen him drink from the still water many times.
• Fecal Description - brown and solid form but soft, white uratea and he usually has a dropping every other day if not every day
• History - previous owner had him on a diet of super worms and crickets, he no longer eats either when offered ( I know this wasn’t a healthy diet and switched it 6 months ago when I got him)
• • Cage Type - 2x2x4 screened cage
  • Lighting - 22’ zoomed 5.0 T5 uvb, lights on at 8am off at 8pm. Temperature - basking spot was around 85° have lowered it to 80, use 2 digital thermometers at top and bottom, lowest temp is 70 and can get as low as 66 at night.
  • Humidity - humidity can get up to 60 during the day and increases after spraying obviously. I have a acurite reader for measuring.
  • Plants - Weeping fig, pothos, grape vine ivy and a bird of paradise. All fake plants have been removed.
  • Placement - cage located in my bedroom, door is kept closed all day, no traffic but I do keep the window open occasionally to air it out, the top of the cage is about 5 1/2 feet from the ground
  • Location - NH

 

[Ryleyflynn]

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, 1.5 yes, been in my care 7 months.
• Handling - once/week max, now everyday to administer meds.
• Feeding - Dubai’s, horn & silk worms, wax worms. He hasn’t eaten his typical 5-7 feeders/day in around 1 month. Now he will only eat silk & horn worms which I know should only be used as treats. Try to give around 9 am. Gutload with watercress, Papaya, yellow squash, sweet potato
• Supplements - repticalcium with no d3 4x/week and fluckers repticalcium once/month and will be bumping to twice a month.
• Watering - I hand spray once for 30 seconds lights on and again for 30 when lights go out. I clean and supply fresh water every morning with small clear cups. I haven’t seen him drink from leaves, I had a dripper which seemed pointless, I have seen him drink from the still water many times.
• Fecal Description - brown and solid form but soft, white uratea and he usually has a dropping every other day if not every day
• History - previous owner had him on a diet of super worms and crickets, he no longer eats either when offered ( I know this wasn’t a healthy diet and switched it 6 months ago when I got him)
• • Cage Type - 2x2x4 screened cage
  • Lighting - 22’ zoomed 5.0 T5 uvb, lights on at 8am off at 8pm. Temperature - basking spot was around 85° have lowered it to 80, use 2 digital thermometers at top and bottom, lowest temp is 70 and can get as low as 66 at night.
  • Humidity - humidity can get up to 60 during the day and increases after spraying obviously. I have a acurite reader for measuring.
  • Plants - Weeping fig, pothos, grape vine ivy and a bird of paradise. All fake plants have been removed.
  • Placement - cage located in my bedroom, door is kept closed all day, no traffic but I do keep the window open occasionally to air it out, the top of the cage is about 5 1/2 feet from the ground
  • Location -

Yes, copy and paste it into your reply then fill it out with as much detail as possible. I would love to know how your getting the weight. 130 grams does not add up for what I am visually seeing in the images.

Wow. I feel stupid. I meant 230. I assume you are correct about him being overweight then?