Please help urgent!!!!!

[SilverWolf]

My 4 month old Jackson Chameleon was sleeping on the ground. All the lights were off. All of the sudden I hear strange noises, like a creature moving around in the cage. I turned on the lights and he had his stress colors, and was running around the floor of his cage! He was bumping into the walls, seemed like he was trying to climb but for some reason couldn't, kept falling over, and was acting like he was disorientated. What is this a sign of? I couldn't record it, my phone is dead. What is this a sign of?

 

[SilverWolf]

He fell out of the cage, I opened it to find him! He is like a pale yellowish green color, but he is so young he's always been brown. He just won't sit still! What is going on!!!??? ;(

 

[Action Jackson]

He fell out of the cage, I opened it to find him! He is like a pale yellowish green color, but he is so young he's always been brown. He just won't sit still! What is going on!!!??? ;(

Hard to say what is going on. Perhaps he ate something that affected him, maybe he fell. I hope he gets better.

 

[sharp229]

Was he sleeping actually on the floor of the cage, or on a branch near the bottom? Has he had any other symptoms recently, such as mucous or holding his head up?

Is it possible he is choking on something? Could you fill out the help form and post pictures? It is really hard to say but that sounds very strange.

 

[zsazsa85]

Just like the other member asked : was he sleeping before he just started to move? My cham did that once: she was sleeping, I happened to stay there and suddenly saw her moving on the branch, she ended up falling down. Then she was totally confused, tried to climb on the screen but she fell 3 times again. So I took her out and then she was fine in few seconds. She always had a bump on her had after this accident.
How is he now?

 

[OldChamKeeper]

If you have a disoriented cham I would recommend you place him in a small cage, I use a plastic one with a screen top (cricket cage) and place a towel on the bottom. It's soft, the animal can't bounce around, and hopefully it will be better in the morning.

Making it comfortable and safe is all you can do at this hour.

Possible ideas on cause.... not many. Any chance it was bit by a spider?

 

[laurie]

He may have been sleeping on the floor as he had fallen while he was asleep. Then he woke up on the floor and was confused about where he was. Next you pick him up and he is really not sure what is going on in his little life.

If this just happened once, don't worry. I had one of the sweetest chams in the world fall to the floor, so I picked her up to put her back in her tree. That was the only time she ever bit me. The next day it was like it never happened. That was so long ago, I had forgotten until you described what happened with your Cham.

Let us know if all seems normal in the morning. I am betting he is just fine.

 

[Cait0420]

Was he sleeping actually on the floor of the cage, or on a branch near the bottom? Has he had any other symptoms recently, such as mucous or holding his head up?

Is it possible he is choking on something? Could you fill out the help form and post pictures? It is really hard to say but that sounds very strange.

Mine have been doing this, I'm taking them to the vet Monday but is this a RI? The mucous and head up?

 

[Cait0420]

Mine have been doing the head up and mucous thing, I'm taking them to the vet Monday but is this a RI??

 

[sharp229]

Mucous and holding the head up are signs of RI. Also swallowing constantly, bubbles, etc. Probably not the case in the description by the OP, but I was just trying to verify. Cait, if your cham is having this problem I would start a new thread with pictures/info, although with those signs you will need to see a vet.

 

[Cait0420]

Already booked the vet for Monday, I just didn't know holding head up was a symptom that's all. I started a few threads no replies.

 

[SilverWolf]

Thank you all, so much for your help. For everyone that sees this please take the time to read this. I was crying and very nervous earlier so I wasn't very patient with typing, but I will explain this in as much detail as I possibly can. I will also type in the "How to ask for help" thingy in another post afterwards.

I came home from the store with my family. I noticed, Tricky (my chameleon's name) was still in the same spot as before. He was just sleeping on the floor, where he went before I left. So he didn't fall there, he went there himself. Anyway he has never really done that before, the lowest he goes is to like sleep on the pot rim. Occasionally he'll wake up and move to just an inch or so to get more comfortable. But this time he was on the ground, so I was just somewhat concerned, as cute as it was to see him all curled up like that. He seemed comfortable. Still, I decided to make a post, asking the question. Ultimately, I wasn't too concerned with it though. Today he had ate, five crickets (four dusted with calcium) and drank well, straight from my spray bottle too. He also ate from the cup while it was in my hand (usually he eats from my fingers, just not on his vitamin days, when the crickets are dusted). The crickets were perfect size for him. I see plenty of fecal matter in the cage a the bottom so obviously there's no impactions. So today was ultimately a good day for him. But when I got home, I was checking the forums, and heard a sort of crackling noise. Or rather than crackling, more like something moving in the leaves. I went to check but he was fine. I thought it was a cricket moving. It was actually probably my Xbox making the noise (although it was off). I looked at other posts with my issue of having the chameleon sleep at the bottom, and most people said it was probably due to temperatures. I noticed the temperature was kind of warm for night time, even with the window open. I try to keep it in the 60s (fahrenheit) at night time. It seemed the window opened, this time anyway, didn't really help much so I put a fan blowing at the enclosure. But I made sure that the air wasn't directly hitting him, just the enclosure.

Then back to the forums. BUt this is where it all started. I heard noises in the enclosure. The lights were off other than my laptop. I stopped and listened, and there it was again. A loose cricket? no, the cricket isn't big enough or strong enough to make such noises, it sounded just like, Tricky running around. Then it sounded like he fell and was running around. I quickly turned on the light, to see what was going on. He wasn't there! I checked and he was running, desperately trying to climb up the corners of the cage but kept sliding off, falling. Running, arming his horns (unintentionally, I"m sure) into the sides of the cage. his coloration was nothing like I've seen. Well it was similar to stress colors, but had no spots and was a pale, greenish yellow color, like old paper. And brown, as well. He did this a whole lot. He was crawling UNDER the paper towels! I opened the bottom part of the enclosure, to see if I could help, but he made it out on his own. I quickly messaged my friend on Skype, quickly asking him to pray (it was the only thing I could do so quickly), but then I quickly went back to check. I couldn't find him in the cage. I listened, and noticed where the sound was coming from. The small creak I left opened, was just enough for him to fall out! I set my hand which he walked on, but fell off again. I picked him up again and set him in the leaves (fake leaves) hoping he'd be secure, but he just fell off again. Where he landed, is where he is now. He just sat there with this eyes open, and his colors went back to his sleeping colors. I was so nervous and that is when I made the post.

I left the room, left the window open, turned off the lights…I went back to check a few times to find his eyes closed. I was hoping and that he was just sleeping. I went to go look at him, and when staring at him long enough, with the lights on, he'd move his eyes, and when making a sudden movement, he'd make a NORMAL and HEALTHY reaction from what I know of him. I use the terms normal and healthy as this is what is typical of him. Just kind of lift his hand up, and act like he's going to walk away. But then I quickly left and turned the lights off. So it appears he's sleeping now.

This was such a worrisome experience, as I looked up a similar post with an older jackson chameleon, but only, the ending result was fatal. Everything else other than the last part of the post was the case with, Tricky, and you can understand why I was crying. Now I've gained my composure, and I did everything I could. Right now he does seem fine, but I'm going to go check on him again in a moment. In the next post I'll pose a picture of my little friend, which I will take momentarily without disturbing him. Thank you for your patience, whoever reads this.

 

[Cait0420]

Hope your guys ok

 

[sharp229]

I am glad to hear Tricky is doing better. With the long post you had me worried something bad had happened If he shows any signs of getting disoriented again I would follow OldChamKeeper's advice to keep him safe until tomorrow.

Not sure what scared him or why he was sleeping on the bottom of the enclosure if he is otherwise normal. Maybe someone else has experience with this? Many chams sleep on a thin branch near the bottom so that they can easily escape predators in the night, but I wouldn't think the actual floor.

In any case I will pray for Tricky and hope he is doing better tomorrow.

 

[SilverWolf]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Jackson Chameleon, male, 4 months. Been in my care since April 8th.
Handling - Not often. Only when he walks on it willingly to reach food, or in emergencies like described earlier.
Feeding - Small to medium crickets now, still mostly small. 4 - 6 a day. Looking into blue bottle flies, and increasing both size and amount of crickets.
Supplements - Exoterra. Calcium, powdered on crickets twice a week. Multivitamin, powder on crickets once a month.
Watering - I mist VERY often to ensure the humidity is always around 70-80%, and I mist every time I see the humidity reach 50%. I try to mist to the point where there are drops of water dripping from the sticks and leaves. I have seen him drinking off of the leaves, and he drinks from my spray bottle.
Fecal Description - Brown fecal matter, no undigested bug parts, and urates are white.
History - Came from a breeder in Texas, btpets.com. The breeder seems to know what he is doing and has shipped hundreds of Chameleons before. Some people here seem to have gotten their Jackson Chameleons from him.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Zoomed screen cage, 18x18x36.
Lighting - Reptisun 5.0, Zoomed 60w Daylight Blue bulb. Both are on 10-12 hours during day, off all night.
Temperature - Temperature at basking spot around 85 degrees fahrenheit. Restof the cage around 75 or so in fahrenheit, and the temperature drops to about 70 degrees fahrenheit at night time. Measured with thermometer from Petco.
Humidity - 60 - 80 Percent. Misting with spray bottle very often. Measured with humidity gauger from Petco.
Plants - Live Croton, codiaem hybrid. Lots of foliage, but there is a lot more near the bottom now.
Placement - Cage about 58 inches off ground, on a sort of dresser (more of cubby holes though) and next to some gaming consoles and a television, that do not seem to affect the temperature. Also next to a window, but blinds generally closed.
Location - California.

Current Problem - I've already described the problem in previous post, don't want to again. Here is a picture of him.

 

[sharp229]

Does the calcium you use have D3 or is it just plain calcium? I am not as familiar with Jacksons, but based on the care sheets everything looks very good with the exception of the live croton.

Crotons are not on the chameleon approved plant list from flchams and they are on the toxic plant list on this site:

http://www.chameleonsonline.com/toxic-plants.php

Not sure how authoritative that site is and they don't back up their data, but other sources also show croton as being toxic. If you are sure he hasn't eaten any then this is probably not related to the issue.

Sleeping on the bottom of the cage like that is definitely not normal though. Does he stay on the bottom during the day or only at night?

 

[SilverWolf]

The calcium has no d3 and no phosphorous. Only the multivitamins have d3, which he only has once a month.

Yes, I am aware, but the crotons only seem to be an issue when chameleons eat vegetation. Tricky, being a jackson chameleon, never eats vegetation. Never bites on the leaves, only drinks water off of them. But after this incident, just to be safe, I am going to look into getting a better plant for him. For now, I really don't see how it could be an issue. Never bites on them.

He does venture down there sometimes, but hardly ever sleeps right on the floor. The only time he crawls near the bottom (rarely, but almost never right on the floor) is to hunt some crickets, or just for a moment to explore, then climbs right back up. He has slept near the bottom before on just a few occasions, but only on a leaf, or vine. Once, for a few minutes, on the rim of the pot. This is the first time he slept on the floor. He only ever stays down there, when he does, during the night time. Here is his normal sleeping spot that I've noticed: https://www.chameleonforums.com/att...utomatic-misting-systems-tricky-day-25-1-.jpg

 

[sharp229]

That sleeping spot looks normal, not sure why he would sleep on the ground sometimes, hopefully someone else has some insight. Maybe it is just his personality?

Even though veileds are the only chams I know that regularly eat leaves, other species can chew on them from time to time. It may not be a problem with him but it would still worry me.

 

[SilverWolf]

Yes I completely understand. I highly doubt he will chew on the leaves. If you research about Jacksons eating fruit or vegetables, you will find they just don't. Only one person ever here has mentioned they love hibiscus flowers, but I've never heard, read, or seen this from any other source. Nevertheless, I will be switching plants soon.

Tricky is officially back to his normal sleeping colors. I just checked on him. He looks even better to me than in that picture I just posted. Thank you for caring so much. I hope he is back to his regular self tomorrow. I certainly wonder why he was disorientated though.

 

[SilverWolf]

Just wanted to let everyone know, that as of this morning, Tricky is no longer on the ground and is on a stick now. I am very relieved. There is sunlight coming into the enclosure, but the actual basking and UVB light don't come on for another hour (they're on a timer). I think I'll just turn them on now though, to warm him up.

Thank you so much for everyone who cared, prayed, and tried their best to provide valuable information. I will post a picture of him, here soon so you can all see how he is for yourself. There also seems to be a new white urate so again, hydrated and healthy.