Please help

[Shelly]

My veiled chameleon is only about 8 months old, I’ve only had her a little over 2 months and I don’t think she is going to make the night, or even the end of this post. Please if there is ANYTHING I can do let me know. Wednesday she wasn’t fully herself but I didn’t think much of it, nothing extreme ... but Thursday she didn’t look herself and didn’t drink or eat. And Thursday night she looked extremely pale and her stomach looked bloated. Friday morning I thought she was dead, I was a wreck but then I saw her move the slightest bit so rushed her to the vet. The vet took X-ray confirmed not egg bound which I had feared since she laid eggs a few weeks prior... vet said that it appeared she had calcium deficiency because her bones weren’t quite as dense as they should be and she was dehydrated but said that other than that she looked good. Vet said to get her liguid calcium and gave us a vitamin food powder that is mixed with water and given to her once a day in a dropper for 7 days. Friday she took her dose, I even got her to take some water out of dropper. But by night she only looked slightly better... her color was more normal but she was acting .. almost blind ... reaching for vines that weren’t there and fell off her branches twice. Today, Saturday - in morning she seemed slightly better. But she wouldn’t take dropper - we had to open her mouth to get it in. Took her out again tonight to try to give her some water and liquid calcium w dropper and she was so weak just laying in our hands not even trying to grasp on. We got some water in and then she looked as if she stopped breathing - it was just the faintest of breaths. We put her back in her cage but she’s just laying on bottom where we put her not moving and barely breathing / I have to check if she still is. I’m so heartbroken I really thought there was hope after vet and just praying someone can tell me what to do for her

 

[Curlytails]

Have you got a faecal examination done?
hoping for the best,
curly.

 

[Shelly]

My veiled chameleon is only about 8 months old, I’ve only had her a little over 2 months and I don’t think she is going to make the night, or even the end of this post. Please if there is ANYTHING I can do let me know. Wednesday she wasn’t fully herself but I didn’t think much of it, nothing extreme ... but Thursday she didn’t look herself and didn’t drink or eat. And Thursday night she looked extremely pale and her stomach looked bloated. Friday morning I thought she was dead, I was a wreck but then I saw her move the slightest bit so rushed her to the vet. The vet took X-ray confirmed not egg bound which I had feared since she laid eggs a few weeks prior... vet said that it appeared she had calcium deficiency because her bones weren’t quite as dense as they should be and she was dehydrated but said that other than that she looked good. Vet said to get her liguid calcium and gave us a vitamin food powder that is mixed with water and given to her once a day in a dropper for 7 days. Friday she took her dose, I even got her to take some water out of dropper. But by night she only looked slightly better... her color was more normal but she was acting .. almost blind ... reaching for vines that weren’t there and fell off her branches twice. Today, Saturday - in morning she seemed slightly better. But she wouldn’t take dropper - we had to open her mouth to get it in. Took her out again tonight to try to give her some water and liquid calcium w dropper and she was so weak just laying in our hands not even trying to grasp on. We got some water in and then she looked as if she stopped breathing - it was just the faintest of breaths. We put her back in her cage but she’s just laying on bottom where we put her not moving and barely breathing / I have to check if she still is. I’m so heartbroken I really thought there was hope after vet and just praying someone can tell me what to do for her

I should add I did turn the lights off in the room now as she usually sleeps. Also she was still falling off her branches today... too weak to hold on it seemed

Have you got a faecal examination done?
hoping for the best,
curly.

- no fecal exam ... I’m starting to think I made the wrong vet choice. I panicked and searched for the closest vet near me that said they took reptiles because all the others were over a half hour drive and I was scared she wouldn’t make it that long

 

[Shelly]

I should add I did turn the lights off in the room now as she usually sleeps. Also she was still falling off her branches today... too weak to hold on it seemed

- no ... I’m starting to think I made the wrong vet choice. I panicked and searched for the closest vet near me that said they took reptiles because all the others were over a half hour drive and I was scared she wouldn’t make it that long

I just checked on her... she slightly moved but still laying, she’s pale, stomach bloated and her mouth is slightly open but she is still faintly breathing. I feel so helpless she’s clearly suffering

 

[Curlytails]

can you please fill out the how to ask for help form

 

[Beman]

It does not sound good. I am sorry that you are going through this. I would fill out the form. With the calcium deficiency it sounds like she has MBD as well. It would be good for you to know what the issues are in your husbandry if she pulls through so you can correct them.

 

[Beman]

Here is the link to the form https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

 

[Shelly]

It does not sound good. I am sorry that you are going through this. I would fill out the form. With the calcium deficiency it sounds like she has MBD as well. It would be good for you to know what the issues are in your husbandry if she pulls through so you can correct them.

Thank you I’ll go find that spot now. The vet did go over all that with us as well about the husbandry and we’re planning on making some slight needed changes but I’m scared it’s too late. Going to find that form now

 

[Beman]

Thank you I’ll go find that spot now. The vet did go over all that with us as well about the husbandry and we’re planning on making some slight needed changes but I’m scared it’s too late. Going to find that form now

Honestly it does not sound good at all for her. But should she pull through or pass and you decide to get another Cham the feedback on the information you provide will be very helpful for you in either scenario.

 

[Shelly]

Have you got a faecal examination done?
hoping for the best,
curly.

• Your Chameleon veiled chameleon, female, about 8 months old... in my care for a little over 2 months
• Handling - once a day
• Feeding - 3-5 crickets a day, gut fed mealworms potatoes, carrots, greens
• Supplements - we had purchased the chameleon starter kit - dusting crickets and mealworms daily w calcium and D3 once every 2-3 weeks
• Watering - we mist her 3 times a day. Sometimes more. Sometimes we saw her drink a lot something just a little. Now she doesn’t want to drink or eat at all. We have to force feed as mentioned in first post w dropper. These past few days she seems to absolutely hate when we mist her with water she seems stressed and tries to get away
• Fecal Description - hasn’t gone recently. It was always white never looked different. Never tested for parasites
• History - Bought at a pet store. She laid eggs a few weeks ago

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screen cage 2 1/2 feet high and 1 1/2 feet wide
• Lighting - heat lamp, uvb lamp, 12 hours a day... just replaced heat lamp at 2 months.
• Temperature - temp in cage is about 78 with a hot spot 85 ... lowest night temp is 65
• Humidity 40/50
• Plants - no live ones (going to get if she makes it) she has vines, branches and lots of fake leaves
• Placement - kept on bedside table in corner of room for least traffic and away from other pets
• Location - northwest Connecticut

 

[Shelly]

Honestly it does not sound good at all for her. But should she pull through or pass and you decide to get another Cham the feedback on the information you provide will be very helpful for you in either scenario.

Thank you, I just want to do whatever I can to help her make it. I am a first time chameleon owner and I’m sure I didn’t do everything perfectly as much as I tried to research it all I am still learning things i missed and I feel awful about that. I’ll do whatever I can for her but I won’t be getting another if she doesn’t make it.

 

[Beman]

Ok so with feeding... You are feeding her too few crickets... Mealworms are a no go with Chams because they can actually cause them to become impacted. The gutload was not rich enough with the best foods rich in vitamins.
Supplements... She needed a vitamin supplement ever 2 weeks, as well as calcium without d3 on every feeding. Calcium with d3 is only given every 2 weeks.
Misting... should be done for a minimum of 2 minutes to trigger her to drink. A little dripper can also be used to provide a constant drip on leaves for her to access at any time.
Lighting... This is the big one... Compact bulbs used in dome light figures are virtually useless. A T5 or T8 fixure with a 5.0 linear UVB bulb is needed for them to make calcium in their bodies. With out this the bones break down because the body is sucking the calcium from every source it can get it from. This leads to MBD... which has tons of side effects eventually leading in death if not caught fast and the proper treatment and care is provided. This is where an experienced reptile vet is needed.

So there are issues here... but if she makes it you can correct them. I know this is a horrible thing to go through and I am sorry you are going through it. These are very fragile reptiles with tons of needs.
Here is a link to how to give medicines it is very important because their airway is actually in the front of their mouth with the esophagus in the far back of mouth. If the medicine is not given in the right spot they can aspirate the liquid. http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2014/05/how-to-give-different-medicines.html

Here is the link to the Veiled care sheet https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
Here is the link to the other resources https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/

 

[Curlytails]

the white stuff is the urate composed of uric acid and urea. if it is white, your specimen should not be having issues with dehydration. yellow shows slight dehydration and orange shows severe dehydration. if the urates are white with an orange or yellow end its usually due to a high protein meal.(uric acid and urea are made up of amino acids that are broken down proteins). as Beman said, mealworms are a horrible feeder due to their high chitin levels which make them hard to digest and they can cause impaction in the animal. this is possibly the case for your specimen as you said that it wasnt producing any faeces and seems bloated. how often do you spot excrement in your enclosure and when was the last time you have seen any faecal matter?

 

[Shelly]

Ok so with feeding... You are feeding her too few crickets... Mealworms are a no go with Chams because they can actually cause them to become impacted. The gutload was not rich enough with the best foods rich in vitamins.
Supplements... She needed a vitamin supplement ever 2 weeks, as well as calcium without d3 on every feeding. Calcium with d3 is only given every 2 weeks.
Misting... should be done for a minimum of 2 minutes to trigger her to drink. A little dripper can also be used to provide a constant drip on leaves for her to access at any time.
Lighting... This is the big one... Compact bulbs used in dome light figures are virtually useless. A T5 or T8 fixure with a 5.0 linear UVB bulb is needed for them to make calcium in their bodies. With out this the bones break down because the body is sucking the calcium from every source it can get it from. This leads to MBD... which has tons of side effects eventually leading in death if not caught fast and the proper treatment and care is provided. This is where an experienced reptile vet is needed.

So there are issues here... but if she makes it you can correct them. I know this is a horrible thing to go through and I am sorry you are going through it. These are very fragile reptiles with tons of needs.
Here is a link to how to give medicines it is very important because their airway is actually in the front of their mouth with the esophagus in the far back of mouth. If the medicine is not given in the right spot they can aspirate the liquid. http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2014/05/how-to-give-different-medicines.html

Here is the link to the Veiled care sheet https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
Here is the link to the other resources https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/

Thank you for being understanding. You’ve actually told me more than the vet did! I wish I came here sooner. I was doing a vitamin supplement at the same time as the D3 but it was between 2 - 3 weeks. As for the crickets we put about 10 in her cage and noticed there would be some left at night still so that was an estimate based on that but she did always have access to more. I don’t know if that was good or not. Most of our misting times were longer than 2 minutes - unless we saw her stop drinking and lose interest. Can’t believe the vet didn’t tell me about that lighting I had no idea and I’m going to check out the medication method now. Thank you again I really appreciate it

 

[Beman]

Thank you for being understanding. You’ve actually told me more than the vet did! I wish I came here sooner. I was doing a vitamin supplement at the same time as the D3 but it was between 2 - 3 weeks. As for the crickets we put about 10 in her cage and noticed there would be some left at night still so that was an estimate based on that but she did always have access to more. I don’t know if that was good or not. Most of our misting times were longer than 2 minutes - unless we saw her stop drinking and lose interest. Can’t believe the vet didn’t tell me about that lighting I had no idea and I’m going to check out the medication method now. Thank you again I really appreciate it

Your welcome hun... honestly everything leads back to the lighting with these guys even the lack of appetite. Good luck to you both.

 

[Shelly]

the white stuff is the urate composed of uric acid and urea. if it is white, your specimen should not be having issues with dehydration. yellow shows slight dehydration and orange shows severe dehydration. if the urates are white with an orange or yellow end its usually due to a high protein meal.(uric acid and urea are made up of amino acids that are broken down proteins). as Beman said, mealworms are a horrible feeder due to their high chitin levels which make them hard to digest and they can cause impaction in the animal. this is possibly the case for your specimen as you said that it wasnt producing any faeces and seems bloated. how often do you spot excrement in your enclosure and when was the last time you have seen any faecal matter?

Honestly my husband is the one that cleans her poop so I will ask him. I do mist her daily and spend time w her but I myself was not paying much attention to her fecal/urine until she showed these signs and it all just went down hill so quickly. It’s been a few days though for sure. I’m just so upset to learn that everything I was told when I bought her wasn’t the best care for her. I did try to research a lot myself but clearly I didn’t find it all . I have learned more from the 2 of you tonight than anything. Thank you I really appreciate ur help

 

[Shelly]

Your welcome hun... honestly everything leads back to the lighting with these guys even the lack of appetite. Good luck to you both.

Thank you again

 

[Curlytails]

n

Honestly my husband is the one that cleans her poop so I will ask him. I do mist her daily and spend time w her but I myself was not paying much attention to her fecal/urine until she showed these signs and it all just went down hill so quickly. It’s been a few days though for sure. I’m just so upset to learn that everything I was told when I bought her wasn’t the best care for her. I did try to research a lot myself but clearly I didn’t find it all . I have learned more from the 2 of you tonight than anything. Thank you I really appreciate ur help

No worries! im sure all of us on the forums are glad to help! Also with the husbandry... most pet stores dont really know what they are doing themselves. they just want to make money fast and unfortunately for the animal its almost always a death sentence. this is not to say that your chameleon cannot be helped though. there is always hope.