PLEASE HELP!

[Shanar808]

You may have to call a vet unless anyone here has experience with that and chimes in. I do not have any experience with that, but I do know that I give bee pollen to boost the immune system of my chameleon and I add a couple tbsp per gallon food grade hydrogen peroxide to the humidifier to fog my chameleon and ensure that no bacteria spores are coming out and it’s known to help with emphysema in humans. It is what I would do but I cannot say if it’ll help you, and if u try something new ALWAYS be cautious.

 

[Shanar808]

Btw, you will want the high humidity cold nights (at 65 degrees or less) and low humidity (under 50-60%) days.

 

[WhoopeeTheCham]

Respiratory infections are caused from high heat and high humidity (and inadequate airflow). so I would remove at least the taped plastic from her cage service door for better airflow. I’m no help beyond that because I have no experience with respiratory infections. @JacksJill

So I was having a problem holding her humidity up high enough thats why I added that bit of plastic on the bottom and it has brought it up to 50% consistently she is currently at 69 degrees for the night. And I slowly went up in temp in her basking area to the low 90's from the mid 80's. Do you still think I should take it off?

 

[ERKleRose]

So I was having a problem holding her humidity up high enough thats why I added that bit of plastic on the bottom and it has brought it up to 50% consistently she is currently at 69 degrees for the night. And I slowly went up in temp in her basking area to the low 90's from the mid 80's. Do you still think I should take it off?

If you still need the plastic, put it on her cage‘s swinging main door to establish a chimney effect instead of the service door. Granted, I have no idea on how to deal with this, so I’d wait for members with more RI experience to comment

 

[JacksJill]

She needs antibiotics I don't know of any other treatment for RI.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I have no idea. @Klyde O'Scope will probably help more with the legalities of it. Especially since they told you she was captive-bred when she’s actually wild caught. Do they offer a health guarantee or anything?

First, IANAL. I've read through this thread twice, but I don't see much of anything in
WhoopeeTheCham's favor. It appears to be another case of caveat emptor and information asymmetry. Did the seller actually say this particular animal was CB? I didn't see that in the thread. What—exactly—does this health guarantee say? My guess is that it's not spelled out (and I hope I'm wrong), which makes it meaningless.

Unfortunately, this is another object lesson in vetting breeders carefully, and asking questions before making a purchase.

I hope this chameleon is ok in the end. Until it can be seen & treated by a vet, try to keep it drinking & eating.

 

[WhoopeeTheCham]

I

First, IANAL. I've read through this thread twice, but I don't see much of anything in
WhoopeeTheCham's favor. It appears to be another case of caveat emptor and information asymmetry. Did the seller actually say this particular animal was CB? I didn't see that in the thread. What—exactly—does this health guarantee say? My guess is that it's not spelled out (and I hope I'm wrong), which makes it meaningless.

Unfortunately, this is another object lesson in vetting breeders carefully, and asking questions before making a purchase.

I hope this chameleon is ok in the end. Until it can be seen & treated by a vet, try to keep it drinking & eating.

I was passes back and forth to multiple diffrent people and was in the store for a couple of hours asking questions. They were super busy. I was told by an employee that she was a captive and then to return a couple days later to be told by the manager that she was a wild caught. I did finally get a hold of a vet this morning. And they seam to think that she is severely stressed. Because she is not leaving her mouth open. And she is not making continuous clicking and popping sounds. I have also not heard her cough again. They want me to keep an eye on her and try not to induce any more stress. So we are not traveling to the vet right now but if I see anything I'm taking her immediately. They are said as long as she is eatting a drinking which she is. She ate last night. And the health guarantee was 1 line saying I have 48 hours to bring her back if she falls ill.

 

[Beman]

If it is a respiratory infection then waiting for treatment for the next symptom to appear is not what you want to do. These progress and take them down rapidly by the time we see major signs like putting the nose in the air. By that point they are struggling to breathe.

If your hearing popping, wheezing, sneezing, anything like that than I would really seek treatment. And I would highly suggest taking in a fresh fecal to be tested since she is wild caught.

Here is more info. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-respiratory-infection/

 

[kinyonga]

"Hydrogen peroxide released to the atmosphere will react very rapidly with other compounds found"...
"Hydrogen peroxide can be toxic if ingested, inhaled, or by contact with the skin or eyes. Inhalation of household strength hydrogen peroxide (3%) can cause respiratory irritation"...
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tf.asp?id=305&tid=55

 

[WhoopeeTheCham]

If it is a respiratory infection then waiting for treatment for the next symptom to appear is not what you want to do. These progress and take them down rapidly by the time we see major signs like putting the nose in the air. By that point they are struggling to breathe.

If your hearing popping, wheezing, sneezing, anything like that than I would really seek treatment. And I would highly suggest taking in a fresh fecal to be tested since she is wild caught.

Here is more info. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-respiratory-infection/

That's what I thought too. Well I raised her humidity way up!!!

And she is no longer looking to her lights. She is displaying beautiful colors right now. She seams extremely comfortable and is not showing any other signs. This little one has me so confused. I know they can hide their sickness I was hoping this close up would give you guys some more insight.
d

 

[Shanar808]

"Hydrogen peroxide released to the atmosphere will react very rapidly with other compounds found"...
"Hydrogen peroxide can be toxic if ingested, inhaled, or by contact with the skin or eyes. Inhalation of household strength hydrogen peroxide (3%) can cause respiratory irritation"...
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tf.asp?id=305&tid=55

Yes, any use of H2O2 is very specific in dilution amounts. I do not recommend anyone use this method lightly. A resource for more information on it can be found here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3108576/
Btw is your chameleon day sleeping or is it bedtime? Day sleeping is very serious.

 

[WhoopeeTheCham]

Yes, any use of H2O2 is very specific in dilution amounts. I do not recommend anyone use this method lightly. A resource for more information on it can be found here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3108576/
Btw is your chameleon day sleeping or is it bedtime? Day sleeping is very serious.

I have not seen her day sleep, but I also work full time. She likes to snuggle down about an hour before her lights go off. I was just thinking that's normal because of the winter. I was also thinking she is a little dehydrated because of her eyes. But I watched her get up this morning and crawl to her drinking spot and start drinking. Tomorrow morning I'm really gonna encourage her to drink and eat some more because she didn't eat anything today. But she ate yesterday.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I was passes back and forth to multiple diffrent people and was in the store for a couple of hours asking questions. They were super busy. I was told by an employee that she was a captive and then to return a couple days later to be told by the manager that she was a wild caught.

Again, IANAL. For future reference, and anyone else reading this, it's best to get such representations in writing—an email exchange should be sufficient. When contacting or having an exchange with a breeder or vendor, leave the entire discussion intact—do not delete any portions or reply blankly. If the vendor deletes or replies blankly, it should send up a flag. I'm not saying it always means shenanigans, but it could. Such a lengthy chain may seem messy or unwieldy, but if a problem arises, it's your best evidence of what was said by both sides, and you'll be glad you have it. It can also keep facts straight better than memory.

And the health guarantee was 1 line saying I have 48 hours to bring her back if she falls ill.

That still sounds vague. Does that mean if the animal becomes sick 3 months after purchase you then have 48 hours to bring her back? Or does it mean if she becomes sick within the first 48 hours, or what? Wording can mean everything—or nothing. In the end it really comes down to the ethics & good faith of the parties.

Aside: I really wish civics were still taught in high schools, along with basic contract law.

 

[WhoopeeTheCham]

UPDATE ON WHOOPEE!

For those of you who are following I would like to share my knowledge I received today. My brand new mister already took a dump(FYI don't buy a reptirain) so I went searching high and low for a mist king. I came a across a wonderful gentleman named Aaron who is the owner of DNA Slithers and critters he was amazing in point me in the right direction. Then I went to Nature Box Pet Emporium and they were absolutely amazing. They had a gentleman who works there that raises carpet chams. I have been told my girl is not sick! I repeat is not sick! Yaaa... I showed him all of my pictures of her and went over my husbandry and.... she..... is.... gravid.... and full of eggs. Which means they are more than likely fertilized. Super, super, super exciting.... that means my whoopee could essentially help the carpet cham CB and bring them to cham lovers like yourself. this explains why she hasn't really been eatting, why she is super dark when I am near but will change beautiful colors when she can't see me. What I thought was a cough is her actually hissing at me and trying to get me to go away. So I immediately got the mistking and set up a laying bin for her. He also told me that she is really close to laying because of her belly size. With that being said because of all the stress she has been under she may become egg bound, or may even die. He said this last shipment was not a good one. however if whoopee does die I can take her to the vet I found and they can excise her eggs. I'm really hoping it doesn't come to that. SO.... here are some more pictures from today and last night.

Also we talked about my husbandry. He said I am on point. I'm gonna make 1 minor tweak and put an exhaust fan in her enclosure because she does really well at 80% humidity and a 90 degree basking spot, but that closes up 3 sides and the front is 1/3 enclosed. I have airflow but he recommended it as an added safety precaution and it's an amazing idea especially if you live in Colorado. Welp more to come on the story of WhoopeeThe Cham. Thank you to all who helped me over the last couple of days I have learned so much on the fly. I guess you never really know what it's gonna be like until that baby is in his or her enclosure. Thanks again everyone! Much love!

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Which means they are more than likely fertilized. Super, super, super exciting.... that means my whoopee could essentially help the carpet cham CB and bring them to cham lovers like yourself.

That's (hopefully) wonderful news, but please don't do like the people who sold her to you and misrepresent them. CB generally means Captive Bred, and being Wild Caught, these hatchlings will be CH—Captive Hatched, or WC/CH—Wild Caught/Captive Hatched. She was bred in the wild—not under controlled environment or conditions or part of any breeding program.

EDIT: Nothing wrong with that, as long as folks are honest with each other & know what they're getting.

cb vs wc/ch

 

[kinyonga]

Definitely gravid...hope she lays the eggs in a hole. Carpet chameleons are notorious for dropping eggs on the ground without burying them.
Good luck!

 

[WhoopeeTheCham]

Definitely gravid...hope she lays the eggs in a hole. Carpet chameleons are notorious for dropping eggs on the ground without burying them.
Good luck!

I'm hoping she lays in her box too. I made sure to pick a box that would take up more than 1/4 of her floor space. I just hope her box isn't too far down. Because how small she is an how large her enclosure is I have also heard large enclosures can be a problem with this breed. I also had to pin a thin sheet about a foot and a half away from her enclosure to give her some solid privacy as she is in my bedroom I don't want to disturb her. Do you have any other recommendations to help her successfully lay her whole clutch? Like I know her laying box is supposed to be wet enough to support a hole but can it be too wet? I have a pothos plant planted in her laying box with a branch also coming out of the box. And I also added an exhaust fan to pull stagnate air out of her enclosure. Any other recommendations are greatly appreciated. I am so glad I can ask you guys questions. Thank you for helping put my mind at ease.

 

[kinyonga]

The lay bin can be too wet and then she won't want to lay her eggs there. It should be just moist enough to hold a tunnel.

If your cage is all screen why would you want to add a fan? Can you post a photo to show me the whole cage so I can see where the fan is please.
Ask all the questions you want to...we always do our best to answer.

 

[WhoopeeTheCham]

The lay bin can be too wet and then she won't want to lay her eggs there. It should be just moist enough to hold a tunnel.

If your cage is all screen why would you want to add a fan? Can you post a photo to show me the whole cage so I can see where the fan is please.
Ask all the questions you want to...we always do our best to answer.

Because like I said I live in Colorado (our humidity is like a desert) so when I first started this endeavor I was told to purchase an all screen enclosure (not smart but I'm learning). This was not holding humidity levels and I could not bring it above 20% so I covered 3 sides with a clear shower curtain. That brought me up to 40% (still not high enough for a carpet according to a breeder: not the one I got her from) so I experimented and covered 1/3 of the front of her enclosure. And this has allowed me to pull my humidity up to 65% to 90% spikes. Sorry I'll have to take pictures later. I'm trying very very hard not to disturb her at all. But it's a tiny 4inch fan that sets at the top of her cage and pulls air out of her enclosure it doesn't move a whole lot of air. (this was also recommended by the breeder) because of our weather conditions. Sorry I hope that didn't sound condescending.

 

[WhoopeeTheCham]

Hey guys me again! I just wanted to give you guys an update. After adding the sheet over her enclosure she is eatting like a little piglet now. Lol. I know... I know I still haven't shown you the fan set up. My bad I have been leaving before her lights go on and getting home at night after her lights go off. I gave her 3 silkworms, a wax worm, and 6 dubia roches and she ate it all (Or atleast her feeder dish is empty) . She still has beautiful gravid colors from what I can tell at least and she looks as though she has explored her laying bin. Can you guys tell me other then her size what is another sign to be looking for after she has laid her eggs? Like colors, eatting, moving around her cage, nesting box changes anything you can think of even if it not related to a carpet cham. Any experience or advice is greatly appreciated.