Poor aim - what’s up?

[TruffleMonster]

Start with the supplement change... If you can get baby to get pissed and gape at you to see the inside of his mouth and tongue that would give you a better idea. My bet is injury due to the feeders maybe being too large for him and getting nipped or supplements.

I can definitely try that. I’m not sure I’d know how to tell it was injured… what would I be looking for? Just redness or irritation?

 

[Beman]

I can definitely try that. I’m not sure I’d know how to tell it was injured… what would I be looking for? Just redness or irritation?

Redness or irritation. His mouth itself should be a pale yellow. Their tongue almost has a clear pink hue to it. And you should see the veins and ligaments in it. If you see red or black spots this would indicate injury.

And you have never fed hornworms off branches right?

 

[TruffleMonster]

Redness or irritation. His mouth itself should be a pale yellow. Their tongue almost has a clear pink hue to it. And you should see the veins and ligaments in it. If you see red or black spots this would indicate injury.

And you have never fed hornworms off branches right?

Yes, we have. Should we not?

 

[Beman]

Yes, we have. Should we not?

Bingo... This could be the cause as well. So hornworms have an intense grip we recommend hand feeding these. If you stick them in the cage on branches then they latch on. When the cham goes to retract often the hornworm does not release its grip. This can cause damage to the tongue. Typically they need time for the tongue to heal.

I would still look at doing the different supplements though just because of your lighting. I am afraid long term the repashy calcium plus at all feedings is going to be too much for baby.

 

[TruffleMonster]

Oh wow, ok, thank you! And yes, new supplements are on the way!

Bingo... This could be the cause as well. So hornworms have an intense grip we recommend hand feeding these. If you stick them in the cage on branches then they latch on. When the cham goes to retract often the hornworm does not release its grip. This can cause damage to the tongue. Typically they need time for the tongue to heal.

I would still look at doing the different supplements though just because of your lighting. I am afraid long term the repashy calcium plus at all feedings is going to be too much for baby.

Wow, ok, good to know. Thank you! New supplements are on the way too. Whatever the issue is, hopefully we’ll see some positive change soon.

 

[TruffleMonster]

Bingo... This could be the cause as well. So hornworms have an intense grip we recommend hand feeding these. If you stick them in the cage on branches then they latch on. When the cham goes to retract often the hornworm does not release its grip. This can cause damage to the tongue. Typically they need time for the tongue to heal.

I would still look at doing the different supplements though just because of your lighting. I am afraid long term the repashy calcium plus at all feedings is going to be too much for baby.

To be clear calcium plus was not all feedings, just every couple of weeks. But still going to switch to the slightly lower D3 one that was recommended.

 

[Beman]

To be clear calcium plus was not all feedings, just every couple of weeks. But still going to switch to the slightly lower D3 one that was recommended.

Thank you I got confused with your post, my apologies. lol ok perfect 2 times a month is all you need. Then calcium without D3 all other feedings. I am really leaning towards an injury. See how he does over the next week. Hopefully you will see an improvement.

 

[TruffleMonster]

Thank you I got confused with your post, my apologies. lol ok perfect 2 times a month is all you need. Then calcium without D3 all other feedings. I am really leaning towards an injury. See how he does over the next week. Hopefully you will see an improvement.

Thanks again for all the help! I’ll post a follow-up in a week or so, hopefully we’ll see some progress

 

[Snuits]

Try crickets, roaches, grasshoppers, etc for main staples, they hold more gutload and supplement. Have you been gutloading your BSFL? If not, that could be the issue. While BSFL are healthy, they shouldn't be used as a staple feeder

How come BSFL shouldn't be used as a staple?

 

[Lindasjackson]

Probably because it doesn’t have a good balance of all the nutrients needed?

 

[Chameleoking]

Black soldier fly larvae are a high-value feed source, rich in protein and fat. They contain about 40-44% DM protein. ... The larvae are rich in calcium (5-8% DM) and phosphorus (0.6-1.5%

 

[ERKleRose]

How come BSFL shouldn't be used as a staple?

They don't hold a lot of gutload, plus lots of chams will not digest them and poop them out whole and alive, because they're so small they aren't chewed up, therefore eliminating any nutrients they could get in them. They've been overmarketed as the best food to feed because they're so high in calcium, but staples of roaches, crickets, grasshoppers, etc. are better. Though there should be no staples, just tons of variety of healthy insects!

 

[Snuits]

They don't hold a lot of gutload, plus lots of chams will not digest them and poop them out whole and alive, because they're so small they aren't chewed up, therefore eliminating any nutrients they could get in them. They've been overmarketed as the best food to feed because they're so high in calcium, but staples of roaches, crickets, grasshoppers, etc. are better. Though there should be no staples, just tons of variety of healthy insects!

Okay, thank you for replying. Do you feed BSFL or no?

 

[ERKleRose]

When I have a baby cham I feed the larvae, I mainly pupate them and feed them as flies

 

[Snuits]

Okay cool lol thanks.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

Okay cool lol thanks.

I usually feed them as larvae but I’m starting to pulpate them and it’s really cool to see him catch them

 

[Lindasjackson]

I feed both the larvae and the pupated flies and Eustis likes both!

 

[TruffleMonster]

So Marty’s aim is still off, but I think I’m seeing some slow improvement? I might just be being optimistic. When he misses it’s consistently because he’s shooting too high.

We made suggested tweaks to his food, supplements, and environment and are avoiding feeding hornworms until he’s a bit bigger or feeding anything on the plastic branches of his enrichment tree. We also had some BSFL hatch recently and released them in his enclosure, so he’s been doing a bit of hunting. He usually has to get pretty close to get them but I think it’s good to keep him using those muscles.

I’m still thinking this is/was an injury and hoping it will get better over some more time.

 

[Lindasjackson]

I hope he’s getting better! Thanks for the update!

 

[Beman]

So Marty’s aim is still off, but I think I’m seeing some slow improvement? I might just be being optimistic. When he misses it’s consistently because he’s shooting too high.

We made suggested tweaks to his food, supplements, and environment and are avoiding feeding hornworms until he’s a bit bigger or feeding anything on the plastic branches of his enrichment tree. We also had some BSFL hatch recently and released them in his enclosure, so he’s been doing a bit of hunting. He usually has to get pretty close to get them but I think it’s good to keep him using those muscles.

I’m still thinking this is/was an injury and hoping it will get better over some more time.

Are you seeing any sign of a bite to the tongue? It has been a full month. I would expect his aim to be more spot on at this point. How many feeders a day is he managing to get down? Is he still gaining grams and growing well?