possible RI?

[JordanOlsen2496]

hi everyone, this is my first post so please excuse any mistakes or mishaps i make. i’ve had my female veiled for about 3 months now, she was very small when i purchased her so i’m assuming she i about 5-6 months old at the time of this thread. over the past 3 days i’ve noticed her open her mouth only slightly, 2 times while basking and 1 time while walking away from her basking spot. also, i have noticed her bask with her head slightly raised in the past and never thought anything of it, until reading it may be a symptom of a URI. today i took her out of her cage for cleaning and listened for any type of “popping” but i could not hear any noise coming from her. other than the 2 symptoms i have mentioned, everything else seems fine. she is very active throughout the day, she is always hungry and has no issue eating, her color looks good and has no signs of weakness of any kind. i’m planning on taking her to the vet in a few days, as florida is about to be hit by a hurricane, just looking for any info on weather or not this is normal behavior. i will attach some pics of the symptoms. thank you

 

[Beman]

Hi there and welcome. What are your temps ambient and at basking? What are your daytime humidity levels?

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

Hi there and welcome. What are your temps ambient and at basking? What are your daytime humidity levels?

thank you! basking temp is 85-90f, i’ve only taking an ambient temp near the middle level of her cage and it was 75-78f. at night my room is 69-70f. humidity is always above 50% usually around 65% throughout the day.

 

[Beman]

thank you! basking temp is 85-90f, i’ve only taking an ambient temp near the middle level of her cage and it was 75-78f. at night my room is 69-70f. humidity is always above 50% usually around 65% throughout the day.

Your welcome. Ok so temp is too high for her. Basking should be about 83-85 max. Humidity needs to be much lower during the day. Your looking for 30-40% during the day. Then up to 100% at night when the cage is at its coolest.

If you want to fill out the help form and post pics of the entire cage lights down I will be able to give you additional feedback. I am guessing she is too hot and that is why she is gapping however with the higher humidity levels there is an RI risk. I would be able to give better feedback with the details in the help form.

 

[Beman]

Here is the help form if you would like to fill it out for us to take a look at.

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

Your welcome. Ok so temp is too high for her. Basking should be about 83-85 max. Humidity needs to be much lower during the day. Your looking for 30-40% during the day. Then up to 100% at night when the cage is at its coolest.

If you want to fill out the help form and post pics of the entire cage lights down I will be able to give you additional feedback. I am guessing she is too hot and that is why she is gapping however with the higher humidity levels there is an RI risk. I would be able to give better feedback with the details in the help form.

thank you for the info, i struggle keeping the humidity up during the night because the A/C evaporates the water from her cage so quickly.

 

[Beman]

thank you for the info, i struggle keeping the humidity up during the night because the A/C evaporates the water from her cage so quickly.

So this is a really good podcast and I highly recommend all his podcasts. https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-89-naturalistic-hydration-for-chameleons/

As far as the humidity at night that would not cause an RI. It is the daytime humidity mixed with the hot temps that we get worried about with Veileds. If you fill out the form I will take a look in the morning and go through it all to give you any additional feedback. For now. Drop back her temps to 82-85ish. You can use a lower bulb wattage or lift it up off the screen more to find the sweet spot. I would recommend doing this anyways. Especially since you have a hurricane incoming and vet care is not really an option with that happening.

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

Here is the help form if you would like to fill it out for us to take a look at.

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - female veiled, 5-7 months
• Handling - only during cage weekly cleaning for a short amount of time
• Feeding - calcium dusted crickets without d3 every day, superworms 1-3 times per week and organic kale every other day. crickets are gutloaded with flukers high calcium diet, carrots, kale, misc fruits
• Supplements - zoo-med repti calcium without d3
• Watering - automated mister every 3 hours for 30 seconds ( on same timer as lights) and hand mist occasionally
• Fecal Description - normal color and consistency, brown/black and white at the top
• History -N/A.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - extra large reptibreeze (24x24x48)
• Lighting - zoo-med 75 watt daytime heat bulb, zoo-med t8 with a reptisun 10.0uvb t8 bulb
• Temperature - 85-90f basking 75-78f ambient
• Humidity - 50-65% humidity / digital hydrometer
• Plants - All artificial reptile safe plants
• Placement - cage is located in the corner of my bedroom sitting directly on the floor. there is a fan on throughout the day and night.
• Location - south florida

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

So this is a really good podcast and I highly recommend all his podcasts. https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-89-naturalistic-hydration-for-chameleons/

As far as the humidity at night that would not cause an RI. It is the daytime humidity mixed with the hot temps that we get worried about with Veileds. If you fill out the form I will take a look in the morning and go through it all to give you any additional feedback. For now. Drop back her temps to 82-85ish. You can use a lower bulb wattage or lift it up off the screen more to find the sweet spot. I would recommend doing this anyways. Especially since you have a hurricane incoming and vet care is not really an option with that happening.

thank you very much!

 

[Chameleonhavinman]

hi everyone, this is my first post so please excuse any mistakes or mishaps i make. i’ve had my female veiled for about 3 months now, she was very small when i purchased her so i’m assuming she i about 5-6 months old at the time of this thread. over the past 3 days i’ve noticed her open her mouth only slightly, 2 times while basking and 1 time while walking away from her basking spot. also, i have noticed her bask with her head slightly raised in the past and never thought anything of it, until reading it may be a symptom of a URI. today i took her out of her cage for cleaning and listened for any type of “popping” but i could not hear any noise coming from her. other than the 2 symptoms i have mentioned, everything else seems fine. she is very active throughout the day, she is always hungry and has no issue eating, her color looks good and has no signs of weakness of any kind. i’m planning on taking her to the vet in a few days, as florida is about to be hit by a hurricane, just looking for any info on weather or not this is normal behavior. i will attach some pics of the symptoms. thank you

To me it sounds like it’s much too hot. And from the comments yes it is, basking should be 85 max like the other guy said and at night it should be around 55 degrees, they like it cold and can adapt to night time temp changes. Chameleons will open their mouths to try and cool down.

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

thank you very much, i swales the bulbs out before i went to work this morning

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

thank you very much, i swales the bulbs out before i went to work this morning

swaped*

 

[Beman]

@JordanOlsen2496 Ok I am going to give you all my feedback in red bold. It may be quite a bit so don't freak out on me

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - female veiled, 5-7 months
• Handling - only during cage weekly cleaning for a short amount of time
• Feeding - calcium dusted crickets without d3 every day, superworms 1-3 times per week and organic kale every other day. crickets are gutloaded with flukers high calcium diet, carrots, kale, misc fruits With the gutloading you want to add more diversity in the leafy greens. You can also use something like Bug burger from repashy as well. As far as food intake you will want to start reading up on this. Females have lower requirements for food and heat due to this impacting their clutch size when they lay their infertile eggs.
• Supplements - zoo-med repti calcium without d3 Ok you will want to adjust her supplements asap. Get Repashy calcium plus LoD to use at every feeding. This has very low amounts in it for an every feeding use. Lightly dust her feeders with this and only this supplement. It has vitamins and minerals in it along with low amounts of vitamin A and Calcium with D3. Vit A is needed for eye health and Calcium with D3 is for her bones. Here is the link on amazon. You want the 3 oz jar. https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-Calc...&sprefix=repashy+calcium+plus+,aps,525&sr=8-1
• Watering - automated mister every 3 hours for 30 seconds ( on same timer as lights) and hand mist occasionally Take a listen to the podcast I gave you. This is how most of us utilize our misters and foggers. The issue with a 30 second misting is that it does not give her time to clean her eyes. I would rather see a longer 2 minute misting in the morning and evening instead of 30 seconds all day long. You can also get a little dripper if you are concerned with constant water access. I do provide constant water dripping during the day for my guy.
• Fecal Description - normal color and consistency, brown/black and white at the top fecals are always a good thing to get but if she is not showing health concerns with eating you could hold off.
• History -N/A.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - extra large reptibreeze (24x24x48) great!
• Lighting - zoo-med 75 watt daytime heat bulb, zoo-med t8 with a reptisun 10.0uvb t8 bulb Ok so the T8 fixture is not recommended for them due to producing very very low UVB amounts. Veileds need higher amounts then what it can provide. You want the T5HO and you want a 5.0 bulb if it is a single bulb fixture. With this fixture basking level would sit 7-8 inches below the light sitting directly on the cage and running across the center. This will give you the perfect UVI level at basking for her. For the basking we talked about raising the fixture to lower the temps. This is what I use for mine. I just drilled holes in the plastic mounting plate and used self tapping screws to mount it to the back corner of my cage. Here is the link https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007D1BUJY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
• Temperature - 85-90f basking 75-78f ambient So this you want lower 83-85 at the max.
• Humidity - 50-65% humidity / digital hydrometer This you want 30-40% during the day. 50% is the very max end. If you adjust your misting schedule then I think you will find this will drop a bit.
• Plants - All artificial reptile safe plants. They love real plants. Pothos are wonderful and so are dwarf umbrella trees. Just cover the dirt with river rock so she does not try to eat the soil or dig the plants up. This will also help to naturally stabilize your humidity. Take a look at www.dragonstrand.com and their dragon ledges. They allow you to mount things like plants and branches high in the cage.
• Placement - cage is located in the corner of my bedroom sitting directly on the floor. there is a fan on throughout the day and night. She will do better up on a table. This will make her feel safer.
• Location - south florida

Ok so the most important things to correct is the uvb lighting, and the supplements. We already talked about the temps. Since you said it is a female she will lay infertile eggs. With this she has to have the perfect temps, food intake, supplements, and UVB lighting. She is at risk for developing MBD with her current T8 lighting and lack of full supplements. This is a major concern with females since they can become eggbound and die. She will need a permanent lay bin. I am going to give you additional links as well. Let me know what questions you have.

As far as the gapping. See how she does with dropping the temps a bit. If she stops gapping then it is temp related. If she does not then it could be early signs of a respiratory infection.

Lay bin info https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345/
https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-89-naturalistic-hydration-for-chameleons/

misting and fogging blog: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/basic-info-on-misting-and-fogging.2325/

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

thank you so much for all the info! i ordered the supplements you provided, adjusted her misting to 2x daily 2 minutes, i will purchase a laying bin for her after the storm passes. as far as the UVB lighting goes, should i be looking for a t5 similar to like a coral light for reef tanks? i have seen none for “reptiles” which is why i settled with the t8.

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

@JordanOlsen2496 Ok I am going to give you all my feedback in red bold. It may be quite a bit so don't freak out on me

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - female veiled, 5-7 months
• Handling - only during cage weekly cleaning for a short amount of time
• Feeding - calcium dusted crickets without d3 every day, superworms 1-3 times per week and organic kale every other day. crickets are gutloaded with flukers high calcium diet, carrots, kale, misc fruits With the gutloading you want to add more diversity in the leafy greens. You can also use something like Bug burger from repashy as well. As far as food intake you will want to start reading up on this. Females have lower requirements for food and heat due to this impacting their clutch size when they lay their infertile eggs.
• Supplements - zoo-med repti calcium without d3 Ok you will want to adjust her supplements asap. Get Repashy calcium plus LoD to use at every feeding. This has very low amounts in it for an every feeding use. Lightly dust her feeders with this and only this supplement. It has vitamins and minerals in it along with low amounts of vitamin A and Calcium with D3. Vit A is needed for eye health and Calcium with D3 is for her bones. Here is the link on amazon. You want the 3 oz jar. https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-Calcium-Plus-LoD-JAR/dp/B00DLJRMV2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1INDXJ8YP9OF3&keywords=repashy+calcium+plus+lod&qid=1567173112&s=gateway&sprefix=repashy+calcium+plus+,aps,525&sr=8-1
• Watering - automated mister every 3 hours for 30 seconds ( on same timer as lights) and hand mist occasionally Take a listen to the podcast I gave you. This is how most of us utilize our misters and foggers. The issue with a 30 second misting is that it does not give her time to clean her eyes. I would rather see a longer 2 minute misting in the morning and evening instead of 30 seconds all day long. You can also get a little dripper if you are concerned with constant water access. I do provide constant water dripping during the day for my guy.
• Fecal Description - normal color and consistency, brown/black and white at the top fecals are always a good thing to get but if she is not showing health concerns with eating you could hold off.
• History -N/A.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - extra large reptibreeze (24x24x48) great!
• Lighting - zoo-med 75 watt daytime heat bulb, zoo-med t8 with a reptisun 10.0uvb t8 bulb Ok so the T8 fixture is not recommended for them due to producing very very low UVB amounts. Veileds need higher amounts then what it can provide. You want the T5HO and you want a 5.0 bulb if it is a single bulb fixture. With this fixture basking level would sit 7-8 inches below the light sitting directly on the cage and running across the center. This will give you the perfect UVI level at basking for her. For the basking we talked about raising the fixture to lower the temps. This is what I use for mine. I just drilled holes in the plastic mounting plate and used self tapping screws to mount it to the back corner of my cage. Here is the link https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007D1BUJY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
• Temperature - 85-90f basking 75-78f ambient So this you want lower 83-85 at the max.
• Humidity - 50-65% humidity / digital hydrometer This you want 30-40% during the day. 50% is the very max end. If you adjust your misting schedule then I think you will find this will drop a bit.
• Plants - All artificial reptile safe plants. They love real plants. Pothos are wonderful and so are dwarf umbrella trees. Just cover the dirt with river rock so she does not try to eat the soil or dig the plants up. This will also help to naturally stabilize your humidity. Take a look at www.dragonstrand.com and their dragon ledges. They allow you to mount things like plants and branches high in the cage.
• Placement - cage is located in the corner of my bedroom sitting directly on the floor. there is a fan on throughout the day and night. She will do better up on a table. This will make her feel safer.
• Location - south florida

Ok so the most important things to correct is the uvb lighting, and the supplements. We already talked about the temps. Since you said it is a female she will lay infertile eggs. With this she has to have the perfect temps, food intake, supplements, and UVB lighting. She is at risk for developing MBD with her current T8 lighting and lack of full supplements. This is a major concern with females since they can become eggbound and die. She will need a permanent lay bin. I am going to give you additional links as well. Let me know what questions you have.

As far as the gapping. See how she does with dropping the temps a bit. If she stops gapping then it is temp related. If she does not then it could be early signs of a respiratory infection.

Lay bin info https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345/
https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-89-naturalistic-hydration-for-chameleons/

misting and fogging blog: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/basic-info-on-misting-and-fogging.2325/

View attachment 244630View attachment 244631

update, is the light in the attached pic suitable? 24 inch length.

 

[Beman]

thank you so much for all the info! i ordered the supplements you provided, adjusted her misting to 2x daily 2 minutes, i will purchase a laying bin for her after the storm passes. as far as the UVB lighting goes, should i be looking for a t5 similar to like a coral light for reef tanks? i have seen none for “reptiles” which is why i settled with the t8.

Wonderful! So your looking for any T5HO fixture with a reflective panel. I do believe others use the ones for fish tanks as well. Then get either a 5.0 zoomed bulb or a 6% arcadia uvb bulb for it if it is a single or dual fixture.

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

View attachment 244647

 

[Beman]

update, is the light in the attached pic suitable? 24 inch length.

No pic attached

 

[Beman]

View attachment 244647

Perfect... Now either a 5.0 or a 6% arcadia bulb. If that comes with a bulb just make sure it is a 5.0 or the uvb will be too high at 7-8 inches.

 

[JordanOlsen2496]

Wonderful! So your looking for any T5HO fixture with a reflective panel. I do believe others use the ones for fish tanks as well. Then get either a 5.0 zoomed bulb or a 6% arcadia uvb bulb for it if it is a single or dual fixture.