Potential cham cage-need suggestions

[bugboy]

Hey guys, looking for some extra advice.

So I volunteer at a local nature center where we keep many animals; birds of prey, native and domestic mammals, as well as exotic reptiles. This past weekend we received a veiled chameleon with his enclosure as a donation, as his keeper was moving to California and couldn't take the cham with him. It's funny, as everyone who works/volunteers there knows me as the reptile/chameleon guy haha, and were pretty happy to know I would be there when he showed up. Needless to say, there were quite a few things that jumped out as incorrect; the cage was TINY compared to the size of him, the UVB fixture he was using had a plastic piece covering the bulb, plastic plants, waxworms in a bowl, etc. Before anyone jumps out at the guy, he really did seem to care for his animal; he had recently brought the cham to the vet for giardia, and the animal was a bit skinny from the treatment (hence the waxworms). Just a case of misinformation most likely obtained from Petsmart (or Petco, can't remember exactly) where he bought the animal 3 years ago.

So I began to try contemplating a permanent cage for him, as being cooped up in such a small enclosure was my first concern. Being that this is a nature center run by the town, the employees there don't make much money to begin with, let alone be able to afford a $100 enclosure....most of their money goes right back to animal care/wildlife rehabilitation. I then realized that we have a VERY large enclosure that once belonged to a Boa constrictor, who unfortunately passed away a few years ago. The cage is enormous, and I feel the chameleon would be quite content in there....honestly he'd probably get lost haha. Cage dimensions are roughly 3'x3'x8' which would be more than enough room for him to clamber around.

Here's where I could use some advice; the cage is wood on all sides except the front, which is a glass door. Holes ARE drilled into the wooden sides to allow some ventilation, but I'm still a bit nervous that there won't be enough airflow to stop bacteria from growing. Maybe I'm just overthinking it, but that's why I'm here haha....just want to get some opinions. Will that be enough airflow to keep the cage from getting stagnant? I suggested possibly putting some kind of fan at the top of the wooden side to keep constant air flow, but is this necessary? Keep in mind, we are on a tight budget, so any suggestions in that area are welcomed as well.

I've attached some pictures to help get an idea of what we are dealing with.

The full cage from the side


The inside of the cage


Lights will be unaccessable to the cham with safety cage


Lower half of right side showing drilled holes, there are 2 rows on each side


Top half of right side, this is where I was considering placing the fan


Any and all comments are appreciated, unless they consist of "well it's not screen so it won't work" haha. I'd really like to get them some ideas to play with, as I will most likely be helping with this project and am greatly looking forward to it, should be a fun time. I don't go back until Sunday, and I'm sure they won't be starting anything just yet, so we have some time to throw ideas around and discuss. Thank you to everyone in advance and again, I appreciate any input/suggestions. Let's make this a fun build!

-Brian

 

[ir0k]

well that's a nice big cage, im sure that cham will be happy in it considering he/she was in such a small enclosure. I know more people will chime in with more important info on the big cage.

what jumps out at me is the holes on the side of the enclosure. might want to put some mesh up so crickets don't escape.

good luck with that cage

 

[bugboy]

well that's a nice big cage, im sure that cham will be happy in it considering he/she was in such a small enclosure. I know more people will chime in with more important info on the big cage.

what jumps out at me is the holes on the side of the enclosure. might want to put some mesh up so crickets don't escape.

good luck with that cage

Thanks for the speedy reply, luck and suggestions. To keep from confusing anyone, the animal is indeed a male. I think a female would REALLY get lost in there haha.

Concerning the holes and crickets; with the size of this cage I think I'm going to try getting him to cup-feed (or hand feed if I'm lucky), as not only will crickets most likely escape, but the enclosure is SO large I feel like he'll never even see them in the first place.

 

[Carlton]

Rather than worry about the fan and cross ventilation from the holes, why not cut some panels out and replace with window screen? You'll get your airflow, won't need a fan that way. The cage should be large enough that you'll get some chimney effect from the basking lights (heat pulling air up from the bottom of the cage). This way you can cover or open up the screen panels as necessary to control or lower humidity by season. Airflow will also keep the wood in better shape. That large a cage may end up drier than you realize, but a simple ultrasonic room humidifier attached through a hole in one of the sides using a flexible piece of hose or pool tubing will let you create cycles of higher humidity for him.

Even though the lights have a mesh barrier, you'll still want to test the basking spot temp right under the lamp to make sure it doesn't get too hot. Cham skin doesn't have the temp sensors we assume it does, and a cham sitting too long directly under a focused heat beam can get burned. Trial and error. You don't need a fancy reptile "basking bulb" for heat. A regular halogen porch spotlight will work just fine. You will need the proper UVB producing fluorescent light as well. I'd suggest a linear tube type, not a compact fluorescent coil type. The tube will light more of the cage area.

You'll have lots of room to semi-free range his feeders. I really prefer putting feeders in a larger plastic storage box wedged or hung somewhere in the plant branches that the cham can watch move around and climb down to the rim of the box to shoot at. Shooting from a distance is more interesting for them and helps keep the tongue exercised. Put the feeders in with some fresh gutload daily, and remove at night.

 

[bugboy]

Rather than worry about the fan and cross ventilation from the holes, why not cut some panels out and replace with window screen? You'll get your airflow, won't need a fan that way. The cage should be large enough that you'll get some chimney effect from the basking lights (heat pulling air up from the bottom of the cage). This way you can cover or open up the screen panels as necessary to control or lower humidity by season. Airflow will also keep the wood in better shape. That large a cage may end up drier than you realize, but a simple ultrasonic room humidifier attached through a hole in one of the sides using a flexible piece of hose or pool tubing will let you create cycles of higher humidity for him.

Even though the lights have a mesh barrier, you'll still want to test the basking spot temp right under the lamp to make sure it doesn't get too hot. Cham skin doesn't have the temp sensors we assume it does, and a cham sitting too long directly under a focused heat beam can get burned. Trial and error. You don't need a fancy reptile "basking bulb" for heat. A regular halogen porch spotlight will work just fine. You will need the proper UVB producing fluorescent light as well. I'd suggest a linear tube type, not a compact fluorescent coil type. The tube will light more of the cage area.

You'll have lots of room to semi-free range his feeders. I really prefer putting feeders in a larger plastic storage box wedged or hung somewhere in the plant branches that the cham can watch move around and climb down to the rim of the box to shoot at. Shooting from a distance is more interesting for them and helps keep the tongue exercised. Put the feeders in with some fresh gutload daily, and remove at night.

Very informative post, thank you.

Would one panel cut out at the top be alright? Or are you suggesting multiple panels? I imagine one would be enough with all of the holes drilled would create the chimney effect, but just want to be sure. As far as humidity goes, I suggested a misting system which they agree would be ideal, which would eliminate the need for a humidifier. Or would it? For a Veiled I would think so, but let me know what your opinion is.

I don't want to sound like a know-it-all haha, but I'm well versed on lighting with chameleons. As far as burns, I've seen the pictures, and was actually going to let them know about keeping the vines/branches away from the barrier. And with UVB, I've never used anything but linear. I've learned a lot from this forum, and linear just makes more sense; the sun doesn't shine in one direct spot does it? haha.....there are actually 2 fixtures outside of the "light cage" that could be used for UVB bulbs, but I'm a little worried that he would get too close to them; would this be a problem? Should we keep it that way or go the original route and put them in the barrier?

I love the idea for a feeder box, and completely agree with the whole "excersising the toungue" idea. My animals free range or hand-feed, and in the case of the latter I like to make them work for it a bit before I give them an easy shot haha. I'll see if we can zip-tie a rubbermaid or shoebox to one of the sides to make it easier for him to feed.

Thanks for all of the input so far, I'm getting some great ideas to present them with.

 

[Carlton]

Would one panel cut out at the top be alright? Or are you suggesting multiple panels?

Its a little hard to predict. I prefer multiples so I can adjust them by season depending on the temps/humidity level of the room. Gives me a little more flexibility. You could always cover one with plexi or plastic sheeting if needed.

As far as humidity goes, I suggested a misting system which they agree would be ideal, which would eliminate the need for a humidifier. Or would it? For a Veiled I would think so, but let me know what your opinion is.

Again, a little hard to predict. If you get the misting system and find you have to run it many times during a dry period it can be harder to handle all the drainage. The humidifier can replace a misting cycle. It can boost the cage humidity level without creating more water that needs to drain. The ultrasonic produces such fine fog it is absorbed by surfaces rather than running off.


there are actually 2 fixtures outside of the "light cage" that could be used for UVB bulbs, but I'm a little worried that he would get too close to them; would this be a problem?

Linear UV bulbs don't produce much heat so he can't really get too close for harm. A super high intensity UV bulb that isn't intended for herp use could irritate his eyes.

I love the idea for a feeder box, and completely agree with the whole "excersising the toungue" idea. My animals free range or hand-feed, and in the case of the latter I like to make them work for it a bit before I give them an easy shot haha. I'll see if we can zip-tie a rubbermaid or shoebox to one of the sides to make it easier for him to feed.

Exactly! I just put wire hanging hooks on each end of the box so I can move it around to avoid mister spray, remove it at night to clean or dump uneaten feeders, or to keep him a little more interested.

Thanks for all of the input so far, I'm getting some great ideas to present them with.

 

[bugboy]

Good point with multiple panels, I'd like to be able to control the levels in the cage as much as possible. Now I have another question; are you suggesting panels on both sides of the cage? You may or may not notice the cage is virtually flush with the left and back walls, leaving only the front and right side exposed. Aside from moving the entire cage to the right a bit, is there any way around this? I'm sure we could move the cage as long as it's not bolted down to the floor or something, I'll have to check on that. I was actually thinking of keeping the cut-out pieces of wood and attaching latches to the edges where the screen would be, so we could put them back in and keep them in place if needed.

Now I've never used a humidifier with my animals, so I must ask; will it create the droplets of water needed to keep him hydrated? Or will we still have to spray down the cage? As far as drainage goes, we have a large hole cut out at the bottom where the dish for the boa would be placed; the dish fits perfectly in this hole. I recommended possibly putting a shower drain in place of the dish to help with drainage if we went the route of a misting system. However, the drain would still be very close to the floor, maybe less than a foot away. Can you think of any way to easily get the drained water out from such a small space? I was thinking of possibly installing a pump somewhere, but I feel this may be a little extensive and was hoping for an easier solution. I'll try and get some pictures this weekend to better explain the situation.

I wasn't worried about him burning himself on the lights, more nervous of him doing something stupid like zapping himself haha. As I think about it more, he shouldn't be able to get that high up if we limit how far up the vines/branches go. You can see the fixtures in the photo of the barrier, in the top left and right corners. Now, could we just leave them there? I was thinking of putting some reflective material behind them to get more UVB output and disperse it a little more throughout the cage, but I also considered just removing one and placing the other across the top if it would be enough. I was also curious as to what percentage I should be using for a cage this large. I was thinking a 10.0 Reptisun would be ideal because of how tall the cage is, if we go the one fixture route. On the other hand, if we end up leaving the two fixtures where they are, I feel two 10.0 bulbs may be too much; maybe two 5.0 bulbs would be ok?

Thanks for the tip on using hooks, I didn't even think of that haha. That definitely would be more ideal, just as you said, we don't want it to fill up with water....and I really like being able to move it around as opposed to having it in one spot all of the time. I don't want him to get bored haha.

Thanks for taking the time to read and answer all of these questions, you've been a lot of help.

 

[bugboy]

Bump; still requesting answers concerning watering and lighting.

 

[bugboy]

Really? Nothing? I thought I'd get a little more response from the forum, I really don't want to tell them one person helped me a little....nobody has ANY insight on what I'm asking for?

 

[Ferrah88]

The enclosure looks like it would be really nice for him.

I also agree that removing a side or two would raise airflow and allow a quicker drop in humidity, rather than keeping all that humid, stagnant air in the enclosure with him. One side should theoretically be enough, but it all depends on how dry/humid the air is where you are. Here the air is usually really dry, so I always have a really hard time keeping the humidity in my vivs at an acceptable level. I am forced to cover the sides with plastic wrap.

If/When you do remove a side panel or two, you will probably have to think about preserving the wood with an animal-friendly water repelling paint (I forget what it was called in english) to prevent the water from getting into it. In fact, going over all the sides might help preserve the wood a lot, not sure how the wood was prepared for the boa that was in there before.

Even with a humidifier, you'll likely have to continue misting so that he can drink from the leaves. I don't believe a humidifier will provide the water droplets to drink, just keep the humidity up. I could of course be wrong, I have never tried to keep the humidity up with one as they are so expensive here!!!

Is it just the angle of the picture or is the bottom of the enclosure bowl-shaped? If it is, then a small drain would be more than enough for the water to leak out! If you are not using an automatic mister, then you won't have to worry about too much water having to leave, so you won't need a super huge bucket under it.

The lights were already touched on, so I don't feel there is more needed to be said there... instead of getting separate UVB and basking lights, I can recommend one of the combined from Lucky Reptile. You need an extra piece for it, but it works well I have been told


Hopefully this helps some! I am at work and would love to help more, but I have stuff to do

 

[bugboy]

Thank you for giving me a little more insight into what I'm dealing with, I truly appreciate it. I was getting a little upset that only a couple of people are willing to say anything to help me, and I'm happy you chimed in.

The one panel should be ok I'm guessing, since we live in similar climates where the humidity gets very low in the winter, but increases in the summer. I won't lie, my personal collection has been seeing low numbers during this time of year, but I've never experienced adverse effects. Everyone sheds when they need to and I have no problems otherwise. So hopefully this will be the same for this veiled, especially considering he will have almost no screen in his enclosure.

We may be ok considering keeping the wood water-friendly, but I'll bring it up to them. We used to mist the boa every day and would spray down all sides of the cage, so I'm assuming it will probably be fine.

I was thinking the same as far as the humidifier, which is why I think using just the misting system will be fine. It'll boost the humidity and give him something to drink from, and I'm thinking maybe a humidifier will be too much.

The bottom is a little indented, but we have a huge circular hole in the center, which I was hoping could be used for drainage. However, I was hoping someone would chime in on how to get the water out as, like I mentioned, we are playing with about 6-12 inches from the floor to the hole. We need a way to get it out from underneath such a small space.

I'm not a huge fan of those "All-In-One" bulbs, and was going to keep everything seperate. And I would still like some opinions as to what percentage of UVB we should use, in accordance to how many fixtures we will end up using. I've never had a cage this big, and want to make sure I'm not going overboard with UVB, and conversely using too little.

I'm on my knees begging people! haha....give me more to work with.