Potentially egg bound? Please help!!

[reggiepesto]

my veiled chameleon reggie just laid her second clutch of eggs. i’ve had her for a little over a year now and this past june she laid her first clutch (50 eggs) and she just laid her second clutch on january 31st (34 in the hole she dug in her lay bin, 5 scattered around her cage the next day). i tried feeding less and lowering temp so she wouldn’t lay such a big clutch, but i guess it didn’t work the way i intended. she still looks a bit plump, which is why i’m concerned she might be becoming egg bound. im trying everything i can to get her to lay so i don’t have to spend $400+ to get her examined, x-rayed, and potentially given oxytocin from what i can gather is one route taken. her lay bin is a 3 gallon bucket with moistened coconut soil bedding which is still in her cage. she laid just fine in this last time and i thought so too this time, but im suspecting she hasn’t gotten all the eggs out. i’ve covered her cage for the past 2 days to give her some privacy, but she still hasn’t laid. i feel like she might be moving around less as well. what can i do the encourage her to lay?? i’ve attached photos of what she looks like now. she was suuuuuper skinny after her first clutch last year, and she definitely seems to still have something inside her this time around. im not sure how to properly post here, i know there’s a sheet people fill out with their care and feeding etc. if someone could link it so i can be as detailed as possible!

 

[kinyonga]

The only way to be sure she’s holding eggs is to have the vet do an X-ray.
If the photos are from this week, it looks possible that she has retained eggs.

How much did you feed her a week since she laid the last clutch? When did you start the “diet”? What did you keep her basking temperature at since the first clutch was laid?
How many eggs did she lay in the first clutch?

Normal time between clutches is 120 to 130ish days…so she didn’t do it on schedule.

Normally they lay all the clutch at once (one egg after another in the hole) and once the hole has been filled in they don’t go back. If they are dropping eggs hear and there either before or after they lay it’s usually an indication that there are egg laying issues.

Oxytocin only works if it’s given right near the time she was supposed to lay, BTW.

Here’s the link to the husbandry questions…
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

If she starts acting lethargically, sitting low in the cage, eyes shut during the day, etc she will need to be spayed right away or she will likely die within a few days.

 

[MissSkittles]

@kinyonga is the most experienced keeper and is one who the rest of us learn from, so I can’t add anything. I‘m only wanting to provide the help form. It’s essential to have everything perfect for our ladies to help prevent laying problems.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[reggiepesto]

She just dropped another egg! She also pooped for the first time in about a week or so. I think this is a good sign, if she’s still dropping eggs that means she’s likely not egg bound just yet, right? I noticed a lump near her tail on the side not pictured here and thought maybe it was this egg she dropped but it’s still there. I think she still has some eggs inside, but hopefully she keeps dropping them until they’re all out. Her lay bin is still in her cage but she hasn’t been in there since the initial lay almost three weeks ago.

 

[MissSkittles]

She shouldn’t be dropping eggs at random like that. Sweet girl is in need of a good vet imho. @kinyonga

 

[kinyonga]

It’s definitely not good that she’s dropping eggs still. They should all have been laid together. Usually when they do this they will become egg bound in one of the next couple of clutches. If she’s unable to get the rest out, then she will become eggbound and die…If you don’t get the surgery done before she starts to go down hill.

The only way to know how many eggs she has left is an X-ray….and it might not show them all clearly enough to count.
Only a vet can help you at this point IMHO.

BTW…I’m not a vet and can only give you my opinion.

 

[PsychedelicPardalis]

She definitely looks like she’s still retaining some eggs in that one pic if she wasn’t a morbidly obese Cham before. A vet visit and x-rays as soon as possible since it looks like she’s still holding is what I’d do.

I had this happen with an adult female panther I purchased that I was told had just laid and infertile clutch 2 weeks prior but 3days after I got her she ended up laying 26eggs but had apparently retained a few regular eggs and two pair of fused eggs.

She got really sick in a matter of a day about 8 days later after eating/drinking normally post laying and the back half of her stomach started turning black at lights out that night. I took her to my herp vet as soon as he got there the following morning but in his opinion she was too weak for surgery already by then and probably had internal infection spreading quickly.

Once I got her home she accepted liquified mantis&silkwork mush and just rested her head on a leaf the dripper hit drinking slowly for most of the day. I was preparing to make her as comfortable as possible to pass already. The next morning she was barely hanging by her tail and almost completely black with her eyes closed before I went to work. I laid her on a branch about 2in off the dirt and when I came home she had dropped a few sickly yellow eggs and a couple clumps of eggs stuck together.

Sorry for the long post/story, but I just really wanted to share how quickly a female can go downhill from being egg bound. She ate like normal at 8am, by noon losing balance a bit/lethargic and couldn’t drink properly, by 2or3 she was just basking with her eyes closed weakly hanging on and by 6 her stomach was turning black with her eyes sinking in heavily. Being Sunday I had to wait until the following morning to see the vet.

Somehow she recovered from the internal infection. It took transdermal antibiotics for a week and hand feeding until she could use her tongue again(about 2 weeks) Somehow she just ended up with a big white scar where her stomach had turned black and is enjoying life eating mantis and basking most of her days away. She’s almost 4yo now and was about 1.5yo when I got her. Hasn’t laid an infertile clutch since so one assuming there was sone internal damage, but not laying is best for her for sure.

I really hope your girl gets them all out and is back to normal soon. She looks study still so hopefully you don’t have to go through the ordeal I did if you get her checked out asap while she’s still strong.

Good luck with her, I know the anxiety around egg laying time and making sure everything goes right can be overwhelming sometimes.

 

[reggiepesto]

She definitely looks like she’s still retaining some eggs in that one pic if she wasn’t a morbidly obese Cham before. A vet visit and x-rays as soon as possible since it looks like she’s still holding is what I’d do.

I had this happen with an adult female panther I purchased that I was told had just laid and infertile clutch 2 weeks prior but 3days after I got her she ended up laying 26eggs but had apparently retained a few regular eggs and two pair of fused eggs.

She got really sick in a matter of a day about 8 days later after eating/drinking normally post laying and the back half of her stomach started turning black at lights out that night. I took her to my herp vet as soon as he got there the following morning but in his opinion she was too weak for surgery already by then and probably had internal infection spreading quickly.

Once I got her home she accepted liquified mantis&silkwork mush and just rested her head on a leaf the dripper hit drinking slowly for most of the day. I was preparing to make her as comfortable as possible to pass already. The next morning she was barely hanging by her tail and almost completely black with her eyes closed before I went to work. I laid her on a branch about 2in off the dirt and when I came home she had dropped a few sickly yellow eggs and a couple clumps of eggs stuck together.

Sorry for the long post/story, but I just really wanted to share how quickly a female can go downhill from being egg bound. She ate like normal at 8am, by noon losing balance a bit/lethargic and couldn’t drink properly, by 2or3 she was just basking with her eyes closed weakly hanging on and by 6 her stomach was turning black with her eyes sinking in heavily. Being Sunday I had to wait until the following morning to see the vet.

Somehow she recovered from the internal infection. It took transdermal antibiotics for a week and hand feeding until she could use her tongue again(about 2 weeks) Somehow she just ended up with a big white scar where her stomach had turned black and is enjoying life eating mantis and basking most of her days away. She’s almost 4yo now and was about 1.5yo when I got her. Hasn’t laid an infertile clutch since so one assuming there was sone internal damage, but not laying is best for her for sure.

I really hope your girl gets them all out and is back to normal soon. She looks study still so hopefully you don’t have to go through the ordeal I did if you get her checked out asap while she’s still strong.

Good luck with her, I know the anxiety around egg laying time and making sure everything goes right can be overwhelming sometimes.

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm so glad to hear your girl made a very impressive recovery.

 

[MissSkittles]

What is your good news?

 

[reggiepesto]

Hello! I finally have an update with good news. Although my girl Reggie had virtually no changes in her behavior, I got worried that if I didn't take action soon, bad shit might start happening fast.

I took her to a vet who takes exotics, and got her checked and x-rayed. The doctor didn't seem too knowledgable on chameleons, and told me quickly that if she had already laid her eggs, she probably wasn't egg bound and likely didn't have any left inside her. She agreed that my girl was plump, though, and recommended we go ahead with the x-ray. I'll post them here for y'all to see as well, but she didn't see any eggs in there, and told me Reggie might have gas (?) inside her, but didn't elaborate much, just sent us on our way.

I was happy to hear from a professional that she didn't have any eggs left inside her, but was a little upset that I had just dropped $300 on an exam and x-ray for her when she had no obvious health or egg issues, but was happy to have the peace of mine nonetheless.

That is, until I got home and put her back in her enclosure, and, to my surprise, she dropped one last egg with the hour!!! I was shocked. I was a little irked that the vet insisted she had no eggs, and didn't want her telling others false information if they brought in a chameleon with a similar case (I know, unlikely, but I wanted to let her know anyway). I called back and told her that Reggie had in fact dropped one last egg, and she said she must have missed it on the x-ray.

I was also less than satisfied with my vet care because they ripped one of my baby girl's nails off, which I have accidentally done once before when trying to gently pry her off of a couch cushion that she had a death grip on. I didn't know they were so susceptible to coming off, but I've been very careful since. In any case, I was annoyed that the vet and her tech had made this mistake as well.

Here we are now! I know for a fact now that she was never egg bound, but I will try to do my best to prevent this from happening again (that is, the irregularity with egg laying and dropping them around her cage for almost a month post initial dig and lay). I am happy to announce that she is still doing well.

I wonder if any of you can see the egg in these x-rays, because I don't know if I can. There is one circular blob that doesn't look like an egg at all compared to other cham x-rays, but maybe that was it in the end, I'm not sure. I included a comparison x-ray I found on google that shows many eggs, so I know it's not the best to compare Reggie's to, but the little blob in her second view of her abdomen doesn't look like as opaque as the eggs in the comparison.

 

[reggiepesto]

What is your good news?

Oops! Sorry. I'm new to figuring out how these forums work, I accidentally left my half typed response in the other reply. Full update is posted.

 

[reggiepesto]

It’s definitely not good that she’s dropping eggs still. They should all have been laid together. Usually when they do this they will become egg bound in one of the next couple of clutches. If she’s unable to get the rest out, then she will become eggbound and die…If you don’t get the surgery done before she starts to go down hill.

The only way to know how many eggs she has left is an X-ray….and it might not show them all clearly enough to count.
Only a vet can help you at this point IMHO.

BTW…I’m not a vet and can only give you my opinion.

You were right, the x-ray did not show the last remaining egg very clearly at all. Honestly, the vet visit was kind of pointless, and I will try and get in touch with a herp vet in the future instead of a general vet who happens to take exotics.

 

[kinyonga]

So what did the vet do about the last egg?

 

[reggiepesto]

So what did the vet do about the last egg?

She didn't do anything. After I called back, she said she must have missed it on the x-ray. That's it, nothing else. Like I said, I am going to try and get a herp vet for my future needs, because this one was a vet who did mostly cats and dogs but also saw exotics.

 

[kinyonga]

I would have asked her what should be done about it….to at least see what she would say.

The thing is that if the egg remains in there, it will likely rot and cause issues in the future. Even if she expels it on her own, because she was dropting eggs too, she could develop follicular stasis or eggbinding the next time she produces a clutch.

Are you going to put her back on the diet?

 

[reggiepesto]

I would have asked her what should be done about it….to at least see what she would say.

The thing is that if the egg remains in there, it will likely rot and cause issues in the future. Even if she expels it on her own, because she was dropting eggs too, she could develop follicular stasis or eggbinding the next time she produces a clutch.

Are you going to put her back on the diet?

Maybe I was unclear in my posts, but she dropped the one last egg within the hour after we came home from the vet. Afterward, I called the vet back to tell her that when she had told me there were no eggs, there in fact was one last one. She said she was busy with emergencies and that she must have missed it on the x-ray. There wasn't really anything else I could ask her to do, she had already dropped the egg.

Like I said, this vet didn't seem to be able to answer all the questions I had, because she wasn't a herp vet and had only seen cases of egg binding in chameleons that were full of eggs.

I'm going to adjust her diet and try to give her more diversity as well because I primarily fed her superworms, which I now know is not very good. I'm going to try and find dubia roaches in my local area and do more crickets as well. I plan on feeding her 3-5 crickets/dubias 3 days a week, opposed to 3-4 supers every other day.

I do have one more question for y'all, does she look like she's putting on receptive colors right now? To me, this looks receptive, although as you all know she laid her clutch just about a month ago, so does it make sense that she would be putting on receptive colors?

 

[kinyonga]

Good that she laid the egg…but what I said about her because she was dropping other eggs, she could develop follicular stasis or eggbinding the next time she produces a clutch.

Hooefully the diet will prevent this…but I’m not a vet and can only speak f I’m what I’ve learned along the way.

They can lay eggs every 120 to 135 days as a rule…it takes them about 30 to 40 days to form the eggs.