problem starting from scratch

[Digitizer]

Cage... pic enclosed typical screen that I see alot on here
Lighting.... Reptisun 5.0
Temperature high 60's night mid 90's in the basking area.
Humidity.. 50's avg but mist 3-5 times a day to boost to 80's use a hand pump style mister. and spray for 3-5 mins at a time
Plants Ficus, schiffelera (sp) boston ivy
Location in Bedroom... quiet thru the day... visitors on the weekend and evening


Panther Chameleon, Cross Male approx 14 weeks (trying to fond out for sure)
Feeding Fruit Flies and Crickets gutloaded with Flukers cricket food and various veggies was eating 6-8 small cricks 2x a day (though the cricks are getting larger) with addition fruit flies
supplements... Rep-Cal Phos free calcium w/d3, Rep-cal Herptivite, Sticky Tongue Minerall. Was dusting the first feeding daily with a rotation of supplements. mon-thurs for 1st, Tues Fri for second, Wed Sat for third, Sun off
Watering... with the mister as stated above along with a dripper thats we usually let run for a while 2x a day
Fecal... looked normal as stated here and since we got him til day before yesterday when I am not sure he has been.

History.. We have had this Chameon for 3 weeks, He was in shipping for 2 days instead of overnight due to shipping error. Arrived alert right out of the box and drank right away. Everything has been normal til day before yesterday when I noticed he was lethargic and napping most of the day. I noticed the apparent swelling of the neck as noted in the photo. I thought it might be the gular edema and discontinued the supplements and increased the opportunity for water. It has only been 3 weeks, I dont even know if it is possible to overdose supplements in that time. we were dusting liberally and on schedule to our instructions. I was on duty yesterday and the rest of the family took care of him. I cam in this morning and he was cross ways of his perch in the basking light and very dark in color. He did, however become active when I began taking pictures. The apparent swelling now looks lower under the neck rather than the side. He still isnt eating as there have been several small cricks pass right in front of him with out avail. Plenty of Fruit fies in there too. He is mainly laying with his head down on the limb but not napping like a few days ago.

There are the pics from 2 days ago at https://www.chameleonforums.com/gular-edema-10895/

We are new to the chameleon and I may be reading more to than there really is So Ill quit diagnosing and just put up the facts!

Thanks for all the help!

Digitizer

 

[dodolah]

hi, that does look like gular edema.
I think you should go ahead and bring the chameleon to the vet to have a blood test and see if there is an organ failure (such as liver).

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Agree...edema...take him to a vet.

-chris

 

[Digitizer]

thanks truying to call one now... any one know what the treatment will be and chance of survival if so.... can you overdose one that much in 3 week or do you think this was a pre-existing problem? Or does this just happen sometimes?

we followed the care sheets with the cham

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I am assuming you are in the states.

http://www.arav.org/USmembers.htm

-Brad

 

[Digitizer]

We have a 4:15 appointment... will let you folks know how it goes.

 

[arkist]

dig,

So are you giving him calcium with D3 four times a week?

 

[Digitizer]

Got the diagnosis

Apparently its a stuck Crix or one that got a good shot in before he got crunched.

The vet opened his mouth and it was black,,,,trauma from either a cricket that got in a good bite or scratch before the munch and is apparently lodged in the throat. The good news is is thats is moving, as can be seen from the pictures. This apparently happened on my day on at work.

This Cham is a gift to my 11 year old daughter. She has done a great job! She Followed all the instructions I gave her. I am the one passing on the animal genes to her, a long story but we are definately an animal family.

Heres the deal....all was well with the cham and the crix until.......

SO SOMEONE CAN LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKE

Lil guy and 500 Crix = Crix to big one day

Apparently on my work day (Firefighter/EMT with a 24 on 48 off) a crix bigger than the width of the head of the cham (or close to it) was offered. (My bad I wasnt adamant enough) and there is one apparently lodged in the throat. AND we have an infection.

Give fluids, antibiotics 2x daily, tomorrow antibiotics and ground up crix with his vitamins (it wasnt gular edema) in a mash and given orally via syringe.

Its iffy now, the good news is that we got him there earlier instead of later .. thanks folks.

We have him and his cage in the bathroom to give steam and humidity. medications tomorrow... and time will tell. The vet said we just got unlucky... the same thing happened to him and one of his gecko's .

I do believe it was a too big crix. Bought 500 and one too large got offered as they grew. My pictures, I think will support it. It wasnt Gular edema,,, it was a stuck crix.

I will keep everyone updated if wanted and hopefully we can get him thru this.

Thanks for all the help

Dig

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Good job getting him to the vet. Hopefully he is on the road to recovery. Thank you for posting. It's good to reinforce the dangers of overlarge food.

 

[Brandy]

im glad you caught the infection, but from looking at the photos there is defiantly some edema there. edema shows up most regularly in the throat and arm pits (both in your cham), most commonly in my experience edema is caused by over supplementing, it can be a side effect of the infection as well, keep an eye on it short term edema is not serious and is easily and quickly in most cases ,correct by reducing supplementation and stopping supplementation for a short time. Good luck keep hydration up usually very important to help heal. Keep and eye on it i may be wrong but docent hurt to look out for it.

 

[Digitizer]

time will tell.... We have to force his mouth open to get fluids and meds in him. He finally bit my wife on the finger today whcih helped get some fluids in him.

After talking to the vet we mix the antibiotics with pedialite and give with a dropper. that went well. We also tried mashing up a cricket and mixing with the fluid... that didnt go so well. He actually spit most of that back out.

He dosent move much unless we take him out. The vet said that could be good in the view that if it is a stuck cricket.. it may help move it along. We are adding suppliments but am holding off on the D3 just in case.

I sure wish he would eat a bit and let us know there is progress but not good so far. We will keep with the treatment and hope for the best. Thanks to all who posted.

Dig

 

[Dave Weldon]

...He dosent move much unless we take him out. The vet said that could be good in the view that if it is a stuck cricket.. it may help move it along...

(From an earlier post...) The vet opened his mouth and it was black,,,,trauma from either a cricket that got in a good bite or scratch before the munch and is apparently lodged in the throat. The good news is is that is moving, as can be seen from the pictures. This apparently happened on my day on at work.

I sure wish he would eat a bit and let us know there is progress but not good so far...

Howdy,

..."If it is a stuck cricket"... I guess I thought that it was confirmed and removed . At this point I'd be inclined to use a feeding tube to push it farther along and maybe all the way to his stomach where it can be digested. At this point if you can remove the cricket, all the better. If you don't feel comfortable trying either of these suggestions, ask your vet about doing it for you. You mentioned that it could be seen in pictures. Were those pictures done with x-rays?

It is likely that he won't try to eat until that stuck cricket is gone.

What part of the world are you located?

 

[leolover]

Just wondering... did you get your cham and supplies from Kammerflage Kreations??

 

[Digitizer]

He is so young the vet fears a tube would do more harm than good. The Cricket is only a diagnosis, he could not see it... but the mouth was black. He also said it could be trauma and infection from where the crick either bit him or scratched him on the way in. He didnt think I could have overdosed him to the point of gular edema (by way of D3) unless there was a problem before we got him. Again we have only had him 3 weeks and I havent heard from the breeder yet.

I didnt see the black myself today when trying to get fluids and meds in him but I wasnt at the best viewpoint and trying not to spill everything. We do have him in a small Bathroom where we can keep it steamed up too.

And to the last poster that is where I got my cham and supplies from. I understand they are having some tough times at home too so I understand their not getting back with me. and dont want to throw anything negative their way yet. Their time atre far worse than mine.. it was just maybe a bad time for me to go there,,, i just found out to Late. No problem

We do at least have SOME experience.. just not with lizards. We did wildlife rehab for years.... raccoons, opossums, squirrels, rabbits, robins, etc for re-release. I am an EMT now. This was supposed to be a project with my daughter and me to kinda get some daddy daughter time and get her in the critter frame of mind. grrrr not working. But it will... We have the stuff, and will do all we can for Critter but if its not ment to be,,,,, we try again and move on to another cham and become another GREAT father Daughter team raising the most incredible pieces of live artwork around.

What dosent kill us makes us stronger, And I do hope Critter is here with us!
And at the worst we become profecient at critical cham care. I have learned so much the last few week wow. We are GOING to be good, I just hope soon


Thank You to a very special group.
This is when you say the internet has some excellent potential. Puts me with a sick lizard with a group of very knowledgable and caring people with experience nonetheless! Go find this inline at pet factory USA

Thanks again peoples. Im off from job 3 getting ready to do another 24 at the station starting in the morning so I may be slow to reply.

Best wishes

Dig, the daughter of Dig, and the Critter

 

[Brandy]

your can also over supplement on the vitamins not just D3, again im not saying this is the main issue, or a issue at all just letting you know

 

[Digitizer]

Great News!

This morning turned on his lights and BAM he nails a small cricket that was hiding out. (only very small ones now)

He ate another one and several fruit flies, He still got his meds and fluid but I was shocked to see him eat. The swelling was much better this am as well. Hes not out of the woods I am sure but this has to be a great sign!

what he ate today had no supplements on them... going light for a few days then only a very light dusting.

Dig

 

[summoner12]

good to hear! keep up the good work!

 

[dodolah]

keep alert. and congrats! good to hear he's finally eating on his own.