Problems with crickets as feeders?

[SuperRad]

Ok, so i know crickets are usually the main staple feeder for most reptiles and amphibians. But somebody left a comment about my website saying this

"> Site Rating: Not Informative
> Comments: You should *really* consider re-doing the information, especially the feeding and plants. You list Epipremnum aureum as a safe plant, but it is toxic!
> http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/poison/Epiprau.htm
> Plus, your feeding instructions is very cricket-centric, but you never discuss the possible issues with feeding crickets, IE, the introduction of internal parasites (coccidia, roundworms, pinworms, etc).
> I do think your site is has some good information, but you should really consider either doing a bit more research, or re-wording your site so that its more clear that this is strictly your own opinion and that you encourage your readers to conduct their own research.
> That being said, I'm glad to see a chameleon centric website in Phoenix! "

I have been raising reptiles for a long time, and have not heard of internal parasites in feeders. I'm sure it can happen yeah, but is it common?
I know the thing about the potho's and how it's dangerous if eaten in large quantities, but chameleons like a jackson, who isn't a plant eater, This would be a suitable plant for them i would say. Also, my site has a paragraph or two about crickets, yet on the left side i have a huge list of possible feeder insects. Hmmmm...
So about the crickets and parasites? any info on it?

 

[kinyonga]

I have used pothos for years and some of my female veiled chameleons have stripped plants bare and lived long lives in spite of it.

 

[LunaC]

I know crickets can transmit pinworms to a herp ... perhaps not a common occurence, but it can happen.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I don't imagine crickets are the only feeder with the ability to transmit a parasite.
This potential problem is better addressed in a section on health and regular fecal checks ... not in the feeder section.
The great thing about your site is that you can continue to fine tune it. The person made some positive comments as well. (We always focus on the negative)
I don't allow comments on my site.
Seriously, it just clutters everything up. My e-mail address is posted there if someone has a question or comment.
Oh, and I love the pothos I have in Kitty's enclosure!

-Brad

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy,

The big question: "Where to parasites come from?" Answer: "They come from somewhere else".... What I'm getting at is that these parasites don't come into existence on their own, they are transmitted from one source to another. Feeders could carry these parasites after being infected by eating infected material such as poop from an already infected animal. I've tested poop from animals that have been fed ONLY crickets for years and didn't find any of the usual parasites that I can identify. I've tested animals that have been eating ALL of the usual feeders for years and didn't find any parasites. I've also tested animals that were not exposed to potential parasite sources other than feeders and they tested positive for a simple parasite like pinworms. Where did they get it? It's always possible that they got it from a feeder that was contaminated at the wholesale source or from the retailer's operation but if they did get it from that pathway, it sure seems to be a rare event.

So for your site, I'd be comfortable with a statement saying something like: "Although it is possible that feeders can be a vector source for parasites, it is rare that feeders are already infected before being purchased from the retailer." You get the idea .

I've plowed around the web looking for research that talks about this topic but I haven't come across much that jumps out at me.

 

[SuperRad]

Cool cool. so feeders i put

"***Their is a rare chance feeder insects may be a host to internal parasites, although this is not common it is always a good idea to be sure that feeder insects are purchased from a reputable source."

and plants

"Certain plants are listed as toxic, but are commonly used to flourish your enclosure (I.E. Pothos, Ficus). If you notice your chameleon (Mostly veiled) are eating large quantities of leaves, please check the toxic plant database. If your plant is listed, please use a plant from the safe list."

Dude. thanks for your guys advice on crickets and parasites. Ya'll rock.

 

[Dave Weldon]

..."Certain plants are listed as toxic, but are commonly used to flourish your enclosure...

Howdy,

I'll guess that you wanted to use the word "furnish" not "flourish" .

 

[SuperRad]

Howdy,

I'll guess that you wanted to use the word "furnish" not "flourish" .

Dude. Haha. fixed that.
Thanks

 

[lele]

case in point: Cyrus just turned 2 years old. captive born from CB parents. He has had clean fecals since day one. Had a fecal 4 weeks ago and he had pinworms. My vet knows I have other herps and was concerned where Cy got these from (suggesting cross contamination - I was insulted!) and always says they can't come from feeders unless, as Dave pointed out, they have ingested them by eating poop from an already contaminated animal. I am obsessive about not handling anything between cages, feeders, etc.

Darwin (bearded dragon) was due for a fecal anyway and although had been clean for some time (a year) had had pinworms in the past. And, as I suspected this last fecal was clean as well. I RARELY even feed crickets anymore and the last two batches I have gotten at a pet store b/c I buy in such small amounts now. I typically wait a few days before offering them to Cy (Darwin has sworn off all insects that's why I did not think he could possibly even have pinworms). So, the only thing I can think is that the crickets had been contaminated at the store (possibly they put some in with a lizard there and when not eaten threw them back in the cricket bin?? UGH!) contaminated Cyrus and since they free range in his cage the cycle began.

So, thanks to a careless shop my poor guy got wormies Point being, it can happen but is relatively rare. I had fed Cyrus hundreds of crickets for the year and a half prior to this and he never got them. As they say, all it takes is one. As for them coming from another feeder he only gets waxworms, homegrown supers, roaches & silkies.

I think crickets would be the most likely source due to how they are raised, the fact that they will eat anything (so will roaches but crickets will eat poop sooner than a roach will) and they are more likely free ranged therefore increasing the chance of the perpetuating a cycle.

Bottom line? Know your source well and stick to the 6 month fecal check. It is inexpensive and can save a lot more in the long run.

Btw, first time I checked out your site. Looks good, will have to spend some time looking around

sent you a PM for some links.

lele

 

[dodolah]

that's why i think i am sticking to silkworms as staple now.
At least they will die when they're infected by something due to their low immune system.

 

[dragonbreeder]

I do not think you have much to worry about regarding parasites in crickets. -And it might not be the best to keep your cham soley on silks.

Crickets have worse attributes, such as the fact that they dirty their bin quickly and stink. I switched over to a colony of balptica dubia last summer and was able to give up crickets for good. It has been so much better ever since...

 

[Scotty]

SuperRad your site is unreal, don't be disheartened dude, cop it on the chin and move on! (very clinical, but good advice).
Your doing a fantastic job educating the newbies and myself from all over the world.
On the topic, I rarely feed crix to any of my herps and if you read any of my past posts on the subject, I don't even really recommend them, there are plenty of more nutritious feeders out there!
Keep up the good work mate...
On palnts, I don't think ther is any issues on said plants!
Cheers
Scott.