Purpose of captive care.

[mczoo]

After spending the last month or so on this forum reviewing threads and over 30 years of owning all sorts of pets i was wondering what others feel the purpose of captive care should be:

1. are we trying to reproduce the evironment they come from?

2. Are we trying to maximize lifespan and general health?

3. Are we tring to enjoy them as pets?

4. Are we attempting to learn about a creature we find interesting?

Personally, I believe i am doing it for 3+4, my goal is #2 and although i am interested in #1 i am uncertain that 1+2 are possible at the same time.

Do others feel the same or have better ideas.

am i just crazy

Thanks for your input

Sean

 

[knighty]

i personaly feel that unless we do a combination af all 4 we are not keeping the animals right or for the correct reason.

i think that an unnatural environment, can lead to stress and helth problems, thus taking the lifespan down... surely things such as lighting, heat, food all come under the natural environment, but are also under life span as they need them to survive...

as for 3+4 i think theese are the reasons that we purchace and choose to keep theese facinating animals. i think that by watching and enjoying them we are going to learn stuff just from our observations...

would buy a pet that you did not find ineresting?

 

[meatslim]

I think for me, 2 takes priority. While I am interested in 1, I don't think its possible because In nature, they probably use a lot more space than most of us have and live a lot higher off the ground with different plants and different diets. 3 is a tough one, I dont think I enjoy any of my animals as conventional pets (cat or dog) but I do enjoy just watching their behavior. 4 is pretty broad and Im sure we all want to learn more about chams or we wouldnt be on this forum.

 

[gregdabender]

1. are we trying to reproduce the evironment they come from?

To some extent yes just on a exeremely smaller scale.

2. Are we trying to maximize lifespan and general health?

For sure



3. Are we tring to enjoy them as pets?

Not in the traditional sense but I enjoy watching mine hunt and observing things he does.



4. Are we attempting to learn about a creature we find interesting?

For sure

 

[Eric Adrignola]

The only reason anyone keeps animals (profit aside) is clearly for personal enjoyment.

What varies from person to person is what aspect of the experience we enjoy - is it viewing their behavior, trying to replicate natural systems, the aspect of breeding an animal with an uncertain future in the wild - or just "keeping" the animals.

But, by all means - if you're not getting enjoyment out of the process, STOP - you're going to kill something!

That said, if you just think they're cool, and want one to have one - chameleons wil be a short term hobby for you. Eventually, you'll find that snakes are your animal of choice.

 

[mczoo]

one of the reasons i asked this was the recent substrate discussion. It is my opinion that longevity is not always improved by reproducing the natural environment. This cam be seen in many animals. knowledge of the natural environment IMHO is very important but applying the same environment may not be possible or even counterproductive

Any thoughts?

Sean

 

[knighty]

but is a longer life in unnatural settings a happy one?

surely the animals has to come first, over selfish gain.....

 

[mczoo]

Eric,

I am intrigued by your reply. Why snakes? of all the reptiles/ pets that i have owned snakes seem the least interesting to me. Obviously people love them; every reptile show i have been to is full of them.

I think chameleons will be an interst for some time for me. the reasons i decided to keep chameleons are many and increase the more i learn about them.


Sean

 

[joefarah]

I do it because I'm obsessed with reptiles and i enjoy the opportunity to interact with my chameleons and observe them in person. I enjoy feeding them, watching them mature, and i love seeing newborn babies come out of the eggs.

I do it because i enjoy it, plain and simple.

 

[royden]

Like I've stated before on these forums:

If we really wanted the best for these animals we would not keep them as a hobby. They may live longer in captivity, but if you really wanted what was best, you would create an enviroment where the chameleon would never ever interact with you or see you, where he would be able to roam and claim a large amount of territory, and where risky elements of his actual habitat would be removed.

We do some of these things but not all of them. Sometimes I feel like those of us in this hobby forget that we're in this for our pleasure. That providing care and practicing husbandry on these extremely exotic and difficult animals is down right fun! The chams tolerate us, we're not providiing them with what they want always but usually what they need. We get no thanks or wagging tails, or licks in the face. We just get a healthy lizard that hisses and lunges and thinks it's king of the world.

So..

#3 and 4 for me. But definately all four are important and required.

 

[Julirs]

Great topic! I have to say it really depends on the animal. I am pretty sure my dogs would not be happy living in a naturalistic wild canine/wolf type environment. They are very pampered and spoiled pets.
Then there is the whole argument about extending any animals life in captivity. Nature is a harsh place for most things out there and things simply don't live being consistently well-sheltered and fed or protected from predators.
I often think about my chameleons, and reptiles in general. Is there existence only eat, avoid predators, and reproduce? What else is there for them. They don't like hanging out together! Is there brain built so that they would really care as long as they are well fed and properly housed? Do they long for their days in the wild when brought into captivity?
As for the original questions:
1. are we trying to reproduce the evironment they come from? For my chameleons I know it is next to impossible.
2. Are we trying to maximize lifespan and general health? I do all I can to maintain good health, as far as maximizing lifespan-that is not my goal. I want them to live a "natural" lifespan.
3. Are we tring to enjoy them as pets? I enjoy all of my pets thoroughly or I would not have them. I enjoy providing for their needs.

4. Are we attempting to learn about a creature we find interesting? Never have I learned so much about any pet as I have during my chameleon venture. My brain is happy soaking in the knowledge and researching all I can about them! Not to mention sharing this knowledge and experience with others.

 

[royden]

In the spirit of intelligent conversation, and in response to you julirs..

I'll throw a thread exploder out there...


Is it possible that they exist for our enjoyment? Is their purpose on the planet to populate and look beautiful so our lives are better?

If a male chameleon has the ability to "fire up" when attracting a female, what is the point of it looking so beautiful when a female isn't looking? Nature has already put in place a way for it to wave a mating flag with the colors and the head bobbing, so why does that flag stay at half mast even at rest. Even before it's sexually mature?

Just some thoughts.

 

[Dave Legacy]

I wish we could captive breed for the purpose of releasing and repopulating, but that's simply not an option. I feel that WC specimens should only be kept if used in breeding programs/research and hobbyists looking for pets should go with CB... but that's just my opinion.

 

[mczoo]

Is it possible that they exist for our enjoyment? Is their purpose on the planet to populate and look beautiful so our lives are better?

If a male chameleon has the ability to "fire up" when attracting a female, what is the point of it looking so beautiful when a female isn't looking? Nature has already put in place a way for it to wave a mating flag with the colors and the head bobbing, so why does that flag stay at half mast even at rest. Even before it's sexually mature?

Just some thoughts.

Great question.

I think there is more to all creatures than we give credit. Chams and other reptiles have personality....why? What's the purpose of the feeders we use.....i have several theories but none of them fit entirely.

Maybe it's just the great cirle of like as Mufasa said in Disney's lion king
(i have been watching too many cartoons but that's
what happens when you have 5 children under 10 )

Sean

PS my life seems better with the existence of Chams

 

[royden]

And before someone points out the chameleons existence as being necessary in the 'circle of life', I'd like to make the pre-argument that their role in the wild could easily be replaced by something less astheticly appeasing.

 

[Cheeseball01]

Since humans are the only animals with the ability to reason and understand then I believe god put all other animals on earth for humans to enjoy.

 

[mczoo]

Since humans are the only animals with the ability to reason and understand then I believe god put all other animals on earth for humans to enjoy.

Remember the famous line from spiderman 1 "with great power comes great responsibility"

Sean

 

[Cheeseball01]

That is true which is why some people should stick with easy pets like dogs and cats. If a person is willing to learn and put forth the time and effort it takes to properly care for a chameleon then I dont see anything wrong with keeping a chameleon as a pet!