question about repashy calcium plus

[coreyflowers1]

I just received my first bag of repashy calcium plus today.IV always been told to dust every feeding with regular calcium...2 times a month with d3 and 2 times a month with repashy calcium plus.the bag says to dust with calcium plus every feeding.can someone please steer me.n the right direction

 

[mattj]

Im interested in this also. Was looking at this earlier in the store today. They were out of calcium without d3 so I wanted to wait and do some reading. Its hard to find calcium without d3. They all seem to have it.

 

[Olimpia]

Look through this thread: https://www.chameleonforums.com/repashy-calcium-plus-input-101541/
It's a question that has been asked a lot this past week so it's easier for you to see what has already been said. There's a lot that goes into your question!

 

[coreyflowers1]

Thanks a bunch.that says alot.I think I will dust with it twice a month just to b on the safe side...hanks again olimpia

 

[Olimpia]

You're welcome! Sorry to take the easy way out but we've had some great discussions about this over the last couple days, so better to let you see what's been said than give you a synopsis.

 

[chameleoman]

I only dust twice a month my boy is old so i wouldn't want to risk anything with him especially since hes my only cham. . . . for now. . .

 

[patrickfraser]

It is an excellent supplement that does away with everything else, but it kills chameleons. DO NOT use as directed. That's all I have gotten out of these threads. I'm still confused.

 

[Olimpia]

It's inconclusive that they kill chameleons, since only one member (that I know of) seems to think this was the cause of several deaths. The Kammers use it exclusively and recommend it for daily use, but we don't know their husbandry in detail so a supplement that may work for them daily may be overkill for someone else with different husbandry. That's what you should get from these threads You just have to take into consideration the amount of UV your chameleon gets daily/weekly/monthly, how well you're gut loading, the variety of your feeders, gender, age, and species of chameleon, etc.

It's supplement that is excellent but you need to put a little thought into how to use it. I personally use it a couple times weekly or less, depending on who I'm feeding, with Repashy no D3 calcium for the remaining feedings. I don't use an additional multivitamin or calcium with D3, as there is no need.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

I have been PMed by 4 other members here that lost chameleons, 2 others on another forum that lost a chameleon & had problems with some others, and at least 2 other members here have posted in the threads that they caught the ill effects early enough to prevent the serious problems I had.....for what it's worth Olimpia.


A lot of people fear speaking out against 'brands'...but it's not just me who is having a problem with the product.

Rightfully so in a sue-happy country I guess.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

This is the original endorsement by the Kammers, Olimpia.

After close to three years of trials using Calcium Plus as the only supplement for selected groups of our Panther Chameleons, we are delighted to report excellent results! During our testing we have successfully raised hundreds of baby Panther Chameleons, using Calcium Plus as the exclusive supplement for those babies. Calcium Plus, from Repashy Superfoods, is an “All in One” insect dusting product, providing essential vitamins, calcium, minerals and trace elements. Easy and effective, you can now use one product every time you feed your Panther instead of rotating between several different products. Your life just got easier! We have been impressed with Allen’s science (https://www.store.repashy.com/calcium-and-d-3.html) from the beginning and feel his company is on the cutting edge of herp nutrition . . . but with so much at stake, we needed to “SEE” the results for ourselves before we would consider recommending Calcium Plus to “our own customers”. Well, based on the results we have witnessed for close to three years now (with hundreds of our own Panthers), we are believers! It is with great enthusiasm that we are now promoting Calcium Plus as the best alternative for each and every time you dust your feeder insects for your Panther Chameleon(s).

I also used and continue to use Repashy regularly for babies, I think it's great for babies once or even twice a week for the first month or so. Did the Kammers keep ALL those hundreds of babies to see how they ended up? Or did they wholesale most of them to petstores never to hear about them again? to wholesalers? To the public?

Allen's 'science' is for crested geckos almost exclusively, along with some leopard gecko & bearded dragon research. NOWHERE in that link provided even mentions chameleons and the only 'science' is one breeder's opinion that gives actually no basis or details for their opinion.

Nowhere in the endorsement does it say they used it for adults. Males vs Females. Allen states "Ed said that he wouldn't endorse any product until he raised hatchlings on it, bred them, and raised their offspring through reproductive activity . " But did that actually happen or was it just said? Was it really just babies that were mostly given this supplement?

Do the Kammer's chameleons live 2 or 3 years as they are part of a business' breeding colony? Do they live for 7 or 8 years like us hobbyists strive for? That is a big question as well.

Were they all kept outdoors, indoors? What kind of UV lights are used?

What variety of feeders & gutloads were used? How often were they fed?

So many questions and literally no answers, just a deadline to get a product on the market.

 

[Psychobunny]

I have had a bit of email contact with Ed Kammer's daughter (I dont remember
her name) since I bought Squee from them and asked questions about suppliments and gut loading.
That is when I was told to use Repashey calcium plus 'exclusively' to dust, but she did not say how often, I have to assume she meant 'follow the instuctions on the package'!

I also told her how I make a 'cricket salad' blend with fresh fruits and veggies, and she told me just use Repashy Bug Burger, again, 'exclusivly' as an 'all in one gut load'.
I do use it, but I also throw in veggies and fruit as available, I dont make the blend anymore.

I started using the calcium + dusting every time I feed cricks or roaches, but I also feed undusted stuff like silks, horns, flies, butters, etc. so they really only get a few 'dusted' items per week.
I have also started mixing calcium plus with plain calcium in the hopes of diluting the high levels in vitamine in the Repashy product.

Zen, you raise some interesting points I hadnt thought of, but you are interpating the Kammer's indorsment wording different then the way I understand it.

There are some gaps and questions in meaning and interpatations in anything if you look hard enough for them. That's what 'conspiricy theorists' do for a living

The way I read it; they 'raised' the babies, to me, that indeed means starting the dusting as babies, and following through as adults. But again, we can play the semantics game and say; 'well, they didnt say they bred them and monitored their offspring, or how long they even kept them on the dusting program.

Why dont you give Ed Kammer and Allen Repashy an opertunity to answer your questions and doubts on a public forum (this one would do nicely)

Lets email them and invite them to join in.

 

[Olimpia]

Zen, I appreciate your experience and that of the people who agree secretly (although not sure why, open forum disclosure would lend more weight to their concerns and would benefit the community.) But knowing how reliably unscientific the typical forum member is, I always have to take claims like that with a grain of salt. Did you perform necropsies on your dead animals? Did the others? Did you have blood work taken to determine their blood levels of different elements? Did the others? People blame animals dying on unrelated causes all the time, like one member who believed super worms cause seizures, and then continued to spread the word even though he had no real evidence.

At any rate, I never said I knew how the Kammers supplement, which is why I stated exactly that in my reply. But given that you sometimes find 6-7 month hold backs for sale on their website, we could assume that "raising babies" might be to adolescence if not further, as we don't know how many they keep to adulthood as breeders. These are questions for them, obviously.

Besides, I don't know how I said anything except what the conclusion is after all these discussions: use it using your brain.

It's still a great product and I'm happy to use it.

 

[Psychobunny]

I found a 'not too old' thread where Allen discusses some of these questions
and issues:


https://www.chameleonforums.com/calcium-plus-how-often-90525/index6.html#post848883

And another one:


https://www.chameleonforums.com/do-you-use-repashy-calcium-plus-86003/index2.html#post807116

 

[Bug Trader]

This is the original endorsement by the Kammers, Olimpia.




I also used and continue to use Repashy regularly for babies, I think it's great for babies once or even twice a week for the first month or so. Did the Kammers keep ALL those hundreds of babies to see how they ended up? Or did they wholesale most of them to petstores never to hear about them again? to wholesalers? To the public?

Allen's 'science' is for crested geckos almost exclusively, along with some leopard gecko & bearded dragon research. NOWHERE in that link provided even mentions chameleons and the only 'science' is one breeder's opinion that gives actually no basis or details for their opinion.

Nowhere in the endorsement does it say they used it for adults. Males vs Females. Allen states "Ed said that he wouldn't endorse any product until he raised hatchlings on it, bred them, and raised their offspring through reproductive activity . " But did that actually happen or was it just said? Was it really just babies that were mostly given this supplement?

Do the Kammer's chameleons live 2 or 3 years as they are part of a business' breeding colony? Do they live for 7 or 8 years like us hobbyists strive for? That is a big question as well.

Were they all kept outdoors, indoors? What kind of UV lights are used?

What variety of feeders & gutloads were used? How often were they fed?

So many questions and literally no answers, just a deadline to get a product on the market.

Allen's "science" has been based on many reptiles and amphibians not just crested geckos, I know he clocked hours and hours of posts into the nutritional benefits on the dartfrogs boards even offering samples to many of us to run tests with it. Having kept dartfrogs, monitors, chams and arachnids for well over a decade as well as being on of the first groups to start using Repashy exclusively I have seen no ill effects what so ever. For the majority of my herps I run a 4-1-1 ratio, Calcium Plus, Vit A and Superpig. Every meal is dusted, and the chams have never been better. The vit a is supplemented roughly 3 times a month since we feed every other day. My rotation was based on detailed conversations with Allen and other involved parties/friends of his.

This gos back to when we were all using the dry retinyl palmitate vit A supplements and crushing them up to dust with twice a month....Supplements are advancing and I'd personally like to see any proff that they have been the cause of death in a chameleon when used correctly. I would be more incline to believe a feeder supply was tainted or the persons husbandry slipped before Id blame Allen or his product.

 

[Allen Repashy]

Hi Everyone,

I have been a busy man lately. I became a father three months ago and my forum time has been replaced by bottle time

This is the original endorsement by the Kammers, Olimpia.

Allen's 'science' is for crested geckos almost exclusively, along with some leopard gecko & bearded dragon research.

I don't like to step in on too many threads these days here because it seems to be the same conversations starting over and over again. I don't like to be the buzzkill of productive conversation. I also don't mind when people share their opinions on if my products work, don't work, or even claim it "killed" their animal. Animals die every day, and the first thing anyone will blame is their supplementation because they don't want to believe that there could be anything wrong with their husbandry practices. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and I give most people the credit to look at both sides of a thread and come to their own conclusion.

But I draw the line when people start putting words in my mouth. Zen, your ignorance about what I have and haven't done, the animals I have worked with or not worked with is based on what? Stuff you have read on websites and random posts about me or by me? I don't require having any personal conversations with you in the last 35 years I have been working with reptiles.

You pick apart endorsements from others looking for all the things that "weren't said" so you can show that this means they "weren't done".... and prove your point.

You quoted me in another post that I said that I no longer recommended Calcum Plus to be used at every feeding for Chameleons , (as if to prove I have switched my recommendations) which was taken totally out of context to prove your point. The only references I said about not using it at every feeding was in a detailed discussion about Montane species and other more sensitive Chameleon species, as I clearly said it was only really tested long term on Panthers and Veileds, and that more long term feedback is needed with other species.

I have ALWAYS said that there are tons of variables in husbandry and that everyone needs to figure out what works best for them..... Someone feeding lots of varied, wild collected insects is in quite a different situation from someone only feeding crickets. Indoors vs Outdoors..... There is no single magic potion that will work in every situation. I have labored for years and years to come up with a product that is the best all around formula out there and am quite proud of it.

Cheers, Allen



.

 

[Olimpia]

...I have ALWAYS said that there are tons of variables in husbandry and that everyone needs to figure out what works best for them..... Someone feeding lots of varied, wild collected insects is in quite a different situation from someone only feeding crickets. Indoors vs Outdoors..... There is no single magic potion that will work in every situation. I have labored for years and years to come up with a product that is the best all around formula out there and am quite proud of it.

Cheers, Allen

And I certainly thank you for it! I think your calciums (Plus or otherwise) are excellent.