Question about wild chams...

[Riven]

So... I was looking at some pics of wild chams and I started to wonder... we go through our rituals to keep them healthy, specifically maintaining proper calcium balance... how do wild chams accomplish this? Where do they get their calcium from? Are wild bugs and such just more naturally gut loaded?

 

[fluxlizard]

By and large, we aren't even feeding the same insects they would eat in the wild. Crickets? Roaches? LOL not unless chameleons go crawling around near the ground looking under grass and rocks and things especially at night.

#1 and #2 food items found in wild chameleon guts are flies and bees.

So right off we aren't feeding them a "natural" diet.

But I have wondered about your question as well. And I've wondered how they can thrive in the wild on a diet consisting mainly of flies. Bees I can see a little better. I suppose the other odds and ends of their wild diet round it out. Grasshoppers eat a lot of green vegetation and so are higher in calcium, for example...

But yes- wild bugs eat what they want and so would be more naturally gutloaded than bugs raised in captivity fed a limited artificial diet- although probably those of us using really good gutloads get way more nutrition into a single species of insect (like crickets) than their wild counterparts... Still, it wouldn't be the same stuff as wild insects eat, and the variety of insects, each of which eats a different wild diet, is not available to our captive lizards.

The feral chameleon populations in Florida provide a unique opportunity for research on diet close to home. I wish someone would take a look at gut contents and run bloodwork in these populations to determine the levels of vitamins and minerals those lizards are obtaining from the ingredients in their wild diet. Now who do we know who works at a university in Florida and has an interest in chameleons to do such work? (yeah chris, I'm winking at you!)

 

[kinyonga]

I'm sure they eat a lot more than just flies and bees in the wild...but basically, we have to do what we do in captivity (dust, gutload, etc.) to make up for what would be lacking in their natural diet.

I did have some information on the gut content of WC chameleons....I'll try to find it and post it.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

There is a study on the "wild" chams of Hawaii looking at their gut contents and quantifying what they're eating. It was interesting, I'll try to post some of their findings when I get home.

To answer the original question: I agree with Flux and kinyonga - we are limiting our captive chams to one or two types of feeders that may not even be part of their natural diet and are limited to only what we feed them, whereas in a jungle there are hundreds of types of bugs feeding on even more diverse plant life. We are trying to recreate what they would normally eat, which is obviously working well for them since they are so abundant in the wild. So what they would get naturally is incredible diversity in food and gutloading.

 

[fluxlizard]

I'm sure they eat a lot more than just flies and bees in the wild

Me too- but those were the items eaten more than others.

I got that actually from something you posted, so I ran back really quickly through your posts and found it again.

I'm glad I did because I had to skim through a lot of the excellent papers you have posted and learned a few things.

This is the paper here:

http://www.ugr.es/~vermed/pdfs/camaleon.pdf

From p 270-

Dipteria (flies) were the most frequently consumed prey types, with Hymenoptera (mostly bees and wasps, some ants), Heteroptera (bugs), and Orthoptera (grasshoppers) being next in frequency. In contrast, three other prey species (caterpillars, praying mantis, dragonflies) were found only in insignificant numbers. An analysis of the biomass contributed by each prey type to the diet, however revealed the most important prey species to be Hymenoptera, followed by Orthoptera and Diptera.

OK so that is different than I remembered it, but still, flies mostly consumed, but by mass bees most of the diet by mass and then grasshoppers and then flies.

So, bees really #1 most of us don't feed many of those
Grasshoppers #2 europeans feed more of those, americans very little for most of us
Flies #3 most of us don't feed many of those either

But I'm not saying that is all they eat. In fact I accidentally closed a pdf just now from one of your posts talking about diet of hawaiin jacksons that I will have to back and find again.

That study found the hawaii jacksons were eating lizards in addition to whatever else (I've got to locate that again- if I do I'll repost for you). Not many of us feeding lizards either...

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Found it first!

(stupid ancient computer won't let me select text in a pdf...)
In wild jacksons on Hawaii: dipterans 35.2%, coleopterans 17.7%, hymenopterans 16.9%, orthopterans 13.7%
Some bees, wasps lizards and snails were also found in GI contents.

 

[fluxlizard]

OK I found the jacksons article from one of your recent posts. It was here:

http://www.oeb.harvard.edu/faculty/losos/jblosos/pdfs/Hagey%20Breviora%20519%20copy.pdf

p4 reads

Dipterans, heteropterans, and homopterans comprised the
predominant prey items.

So here again flies and bees main ingredients in wild diet.

Here is another really interesting highlight from the same page

he vast majority of prey were arthropods, but landsnails and lizards were also
consumed. The last is of interest because the prey species (Lampropholis delicata) is
terrestrial, and these lizards must have been consumed while the chameleons were active
on the ground. Although chameleons are primarily arboreal, they are often seen crossing
roads in Hawaii, and these prey items confirm their willingness to feed while crossing
between habitat patches. As found in our earlier study, homopterans, dipterans, and
coleopterans were of greatest dietary importance, with percentages of prey items
consumed of the first and last virtually the same between study sites (homopterans:
34.64% on Maui, 35.47% on Hawaii Island; coleopterans: 14.57% on Maui, 16.10% on
Hawaii Island), but with far fewer flies consumed in this study (42.88% on Maui, 23.27%
on Hawaii Island). We presume the reduced consumption of dipterans on Hawaii Island
reflects the lesser relative abundance of flies in this wet forest.

I never figured them much for a lizard eating chameleon like mellers or panthers or veileds, but apparantly they do like em. I am also surprised they are comfortable enough to feed on the ground. I guess I have to eat my words earlier in this thread about chameleons crawling around on the ground after prey items ...

One more highlight from the next page

One point of interest that we did raise in our earlier study is that these lizards
clearly tolerate a diversity of prey with noxious defenses. In both studies, insects armed
with painful stings (Apis mellifera, Vespula pensylvanica) or bites (Pheidole
megacephala) were eaten in sufficient numbers that their consumption cannot readily be
ascribed to accidental ingestion. Similarly, a large number of prey items belonged to
species having noxious chemical defenses: 36 Nezara viridula and 4 Danaus plexippus in
the Maui study, 40 Cylindroiulus latestriatus in the present study.

 

[fluxlizard]

In wild jacksons on Hawaii: dipterans 35.2%, coleopterans 17.7%, hymenopterans 16.9%, orthopterans 13.7%
Some bees, wasps lizards and snails were also found in GI contents.

hymenopterans are bees- well mostly anyway

Found it first!

 

[fluxlizard]

But anyway, the main point is-
yes wild diets are different than captive diets as far as most used prey species (mostly bees, grasshoppers and flies).

and yes, wild diets consist of more species than offered in captivity, each naturally gutloaded according to it's native diet.

 

[kinyonga]

Good job fluxlizard! You found the one I was looking for and more!

 

[Bradycham]

Very interesting articles and thread. My chams, when outside during spring, summer and fall, they are directly in the middle of a flower garden, so it is bug heaven for them and they get access to all different varieties of insects while out there. I guess you could say I sort of leave it to them to choose the insects that are going to be best for them, I have seen them eat everything from butterflies, dragonflies to bees and wasps. When inside, to give them more of a diet they would have been use to, I will coat my feeders with pollen among other supplements.

 

[moner]

But anyway, the main point is-
yes wild diets are different than captive diets as far as most used prey species (mostly bees, grasshoppers and flies).

and yes, wild diets consist of more species than offered in captivity, each naturally gutloaded according to it's native diet.

the interesting thing is that the data included here is based off of information gathered from species in non-native environments. how does the diet of the Hawaii Jacksons differ from that of their species in Tanzania or Kenya? my assumption is that they differ greatly and while the Chameleons in Hawaii and Florida have simply adapted, those in their native regions evolved to suit their needs. the real question is who is the healthier for it?

wow guys, great thread AND great starter question!!!

 

[Joy5575]

fluxlizard: I am doing a diet study on the wild cham population in Florida. I'll let you know what we find. So far they're eating caterpillars and roaches mostly. However, this isn't their natural environment either.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Yeah unfortunately there are practically no published studies on true wild chameleons.

 

[kinyonga]

Moner said..."the data included here is based off of information gathered from species in non-native environments"...the C. chamaeleons were from their native environment and although the Hawaiian Jackson's and Florida Veileds were not native to those countries, they have available to them a wide variety of insects which IMHO gives them every chance of ending up with a balanced diet. In captivity we still only feed them a very few types of insects that are often raised on artificial diets.

You said..."the real question is who is the healthier for it?"...all I can say about this is that my veiled females usually live to be over 6 and the males even longer. I've had C. chamaeleons, dwarf jacksons, panthers, etc. live apparently long healthy lives with me as well. I've also had water dragons, coneheads, leopard geckos, cordylus lizards, etc. live over 12 years with me with few or no health issues...so even if the diet isn't what they would get in the wild, it must be fairly good or they would suffer some affects from it IMHO. This being said, the Hawaiian Jackson's seem to be quite healthy from personal information that I have received from a Hawaiian friend who has them in her yard constantly...but of course, their lives may be shortened by predators and even by environmental issues.

 

[fluxlizard]

the interesting thing is that the data included here is based off of information gathered from species in non-native environments. how does the diet of the Hawaii Jacksons differ from that of their species in Tanzania or Kenya? my assumption is that they differ greatly and while the Chameleons in Hawaii and Florida have simply adapted, those in their native regions evolved to suit their needs. the real question is who is the healthier for it?

Well- I think the fact that 3 of the primary food items for common chameleons in their native range matched up in agreement with the primary food items selected by jacksons chameleons in an alien environment is probably not coincidence and shows pretty strong relevance.

I wonder how the established florida populations compare...

Or am I wrong and the common chameleons were not in their native range? (I'm too lazy to look right now lol)

 

[Canny Chams]

i think panther chams might eat hissing roaches in the wild? They are climbing roaches, and live inside rotting logs, maybe if they went outside they would come in contact with chams? Im just curious if there is come insect that might be a part of their natural diet