Questions about feeding, gutloading and calcium/vitamins.

[MantisFTW]

Im getting prepared for my first cham. Hes a male ambilobe, 3 months. I just need to get the feeding basics down.

My first question is, how many times a day should I feed him, and how many crickets per feeding? I just asked the seller what size the crickets should be. What I've gotten from research so far is twice a day, about 13 or so crickets each and dust each feeding. I just need clarification on this, or to know if its too much or to little.

Im also not entirely sure on the supplements I should be dusting with. I know I need a (phosphorus free?) calcium power with D3, but Ive heard other things that people are dusting with twice a month. Im not sure on a schedule for this or what the two times a month thing is. I already have a small thing of calcium powder that I got for free, but it says its without D3.

Next is working on my homemade gutload. Im thinking about going with wet. Ive looked at ingredients pages for both wet and dry, and most of them have a pretty large list. I was wondering, though, if it would hurt at all to leave out a few things here and there on the list if I don't have them? It it will be bad for the cham in some way then I do what I can to make a proper gutload.

Thanks all. Sorry for the extremely long post, im just excited about getting my first cham and I want to do it right!

 

[BeBoSON]

Hey,

At 3 months of age, he will eat about 15-20 1/4in crickets per day.

For supplementing, people usually use this schedule:
Calcium without D3 used everyday
Calcium with D3 used twice a month
Multivitamin used twice a month

It depends on the ingredients your cutting out. Gutloading is an important part for crickets since they give all the nutrition to cham. I usually toss in some greens one day, sprinkled with Dinofuel or Cricketcrack and the next time I will toss in some fruit. I change it up.

 

[ellenngracee]

You wont need calcium with D3 if you use a UVB in your cage setup. If your concerned about it, you can take your chameleon out for some sun every now and then, but dont let him out of your sight! And only if the weather is warm enough!

 

[MantisFTW]

Alright, thank you all.

Calcium without D3 every feed, Calcium with D3 twice a month, and a multivitamin twice a month also. Do I only use the D3/multivitamin for one feed, or for all the feeds in that day?

Maybe a good schedule would be calcium every day, D3 on the 10th and 20th of every month, and multivitamin on the 5th and 15th of every month?

 

[camimom]

Alright, thank you all.

Calcium without D3 every feed, Calcium with D3 twice a month, and a multivitamin twice a month also. Do I only use the D3/multivitamin for one feed, or for all the feeds in that day?

Maybe a good schedule would be calcium every day, D3 on the 10th and 20th of every month, and multivitamin on the 5th and 15th of every month?

Use the dust on every feeding.
and that sounds like a good schedule..
Though I could never handle that schedule (too much other stuff going on)
SO i use an all in one supplement.

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!
Here's some information I hope will help you ....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[MantisFTW]

Ah. Okay, great. I was worried if putting the D3 or multivitamins too close together would be bad. As you can see, im very new to this, lol.

As for the gutload... I think it might help to know what other people on here use exactly. Im not very informed when it comes to nutritional values, and looking at all of those information sheets throws me off.

So, what kind of (non -ordered or store bought) gutloads do you guys use? It helps if you're specific, not just saying fruits or greens.

 

[MantisFTW]

Thank you. I had already read that post before, and I still had some questions about it. Thats why I made this just to be sure. Its very informative though, I didnt know about the vitamin A.

 

[camimom]

Ah. Okay, great. I was worried if putting the D3 or multivitamins too close together would be bad. As you can see, im very new to this, lol.

As for the gutload... I think it might help to know what other people on here use exactly. Im not very informed when it comes to nutritional values, and looking at all of those information sheets throws me off.

So, what kind of (non -ordered or store bought) gutloads do you guys use? It helps if you're specific, not just saying fruits or greens.

I use the following:
apples (the red kind)
Oranges (the round citrus kind)
strawberries (they are red too)( Im a smartass i know
collard greens
mustard greens
butternut squash
bell pepper
cranberries
carrots
sometimes potatoes
bee pollen (can be found a whole foods store, or online)
sometimes abit of spinach


Sandrachameleon has a great blog on gutloading.

some other stuff i have used, or will be using.
nuts
seeds
sesame seeds
hazelnuts
flax seeds
squash seeds
almonds
arugula
mulberries
peaches
sunflower seeds
brewers yeast (thought not really alot)
dried coconut
raspberries
pear
papaya
dandilion leaves
lime
celery
lemon
blackberries
grapefruit
romaine lettuce ( i mainyl use this for hydrating)
tangerines
green beans

all of thise stuff came off of sandrachameleons blogs.

 

[MantisFTW]

That definitely helps.

Would this make a good gutload?

carrots
kale
oranges
sunflower seeds (shelled and unsalted, of course)
dandylion leaves (when they're in season, I could pick them myself)
hemp seed
lettuce
apples

(these are just some common things I could easily find around the house that my parents wont be too bothered with! I could sometimes try to get things like bee pollen on occasion)

 

[MantisFTW]

Oh, I can use potatoes and spinach also.

 

[camimom]

That definitely helps.

Would this make a good gutload?

carrots
kale
oranges
sunflower seeds (shelled and unsalted, of course)
dandylion leaves (when they're in season, I could pick them myself)
hemp seed
lettuce
apples

(these are just some common things I could easily find around the house that my parents wont be too bothered with! I could sometimes try to get things like bee pollen on occasion)

dont use alot of kale. I dont remember why, but i know it should be used sparingly.
i edited my post too. so go reread it.
its a good start. and i would switch things out here and there with other stuff, to keep things interesting. besides, this way you can add some nutrient in from one item you added.

i tend to stick to the stuff i first posted. but ill switch things out here and there for toher stuff.

 

[MantisFTW]

I thought I heard of people that would directly feed their cham kale, and they loved it. I guess I shouldn't do that, then? I can do without kale completely if necessary, I dont exactly get it on a regular basis anyway.

I can definitely work with that. My only problem though is that I wont always be able to keep the same mixture every time. I wont always have the same ingredients, so for some days I might just throw some stuff from that list together and mash it all up. I could also always make a big batch and freeze some for later. Is this okay?

 

[camimom]

I thought I heard of people that would directly feed their cham kale, and they loved it. I guess I shouldn't do that, then? I can do without kale completely if necessary, I dont exactly get it on a regular basis anyway.

I can definitely work with that. My only problem though is that I wont always be able to keep the same mixture every time. I wont always have the same ingredients, so for some days I might just throw some stuff from that list together and mash it all up. I could also always make a big batch and freeze some for later. Is this okay?

I thinkk you can do that with kale, just not daily is all.

And yea, switching stuff in and out is fine.
Honestly, I dont mix or blend anything.
I just feed the raw veggies and fruits straight to them.
I do however slice the cranberries cuz the skin is so tough.
esentially, i just slice up the squash, the apples, the oarnges, whatever. and dump it in.

 

[MantisFTW]

Okay. Thank you very much. I think im going to go grocery shopping soon and get what I can. After that, I might use a blender and mix it all together, and freeze a nice big batch so it will be ready for my cham when he gets here. Ill get the crickets the day before and gutload em'.

 

[camimom]

Okay. Thank you very much. I think im going to go grocery shopping soon and get what I can. After that, I might use a blender and mix it all together, and freeze a nice big batch so it will be ready for my cham when he gets here. Ill get the crickets the day before and gutload em'.

no problem!
yea i just pick up random stuff here and there when i hit the grocery store.
and btw, any of the fruits and veggies you feed the bugs, you can feed the lizard. though my guy doesnt give two sh*ts over the non bug food.

 

[MantisFTW]

Haha. I just thought of another question.

How often should I feed the cham straight greens and veggies? Twice a week, maybe?

 

[camimom]

Haha. I just thought of another question.

How often should I feed the cham straight greens and veggies? Twice a week, maybe?

Really depends on how often hell eat them.
My guy,, couldnt care about any greens, cept his pothos.
if he eats them, let him

 

[Ace]

Panthers are not really known to eat fruits and veggies...mostly vieleds are knien to eat vegetation ... but it diesnt hurt to try, cut in small thin slices like worms...

For gutloading try to limit from using spinach, broccolli and tomatoes...they apparantly havr oxolates that prevent calcium absorbtion ....if anything use them very few times

 

[MantisFTW]

Ok, thanks!