Raising a Panther compared to Veiled?

[Etheoffo]

Hey guys, so recently I bought a baby panther. 1-2 month old. The main question I have is what’s different from veiled husbandry to panther? I had a veiled and successfully raised for a long time, but I saw someone tell me not to get a panther as it’s a learning curve.

Some other questions I have are what is an okay heating/basking bulb to use? I currently have a 60W halogen but I was also advised not to use that, but on here I’ve seen multiple people say it’s okay. It’s very hard to find an incandescent in stores nowadays. Also, should I be using Reptivite? I was told on Reddit not to use it for the high phosphorus content but the Reptivite I have says phosphorus free on the back.

Lastly, the baby was sitting around with his eyes closed but I just brought him home a few days ago. I had a lot of people tell me his lights are too bright which is why I put the halogen in. Just wondering if that would be the reason, I don’t see how there could be anything else wrong with him he looks and acts very healthy.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Beman]

So Panthers vs Veileds have almost the same husbandry overall. To me one is not harder then the other. But husbandry does need to be spot on.

Closing eyes is not normal and indicates an issue. Babies that young really should not have added heat. Avoid Reddit and google for finding husbandry info. 90% of it will be wrong.

For a baby that young you still would want to be giving calcium without D3 for your main supplement. All reptivite has a 2:1 phosphorus ratio to it. However this is still within limits for reptiles. This supplement is widely used among cham keepers but this is only used 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. You would do that for either the with D3 version or without D3 version.

If you want to do a husbandry review we can go over everything. Just copy and paste the form below into your reply and fill it out with detail. Please add pictures of the enclosure as well.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Hey guys, so recently I bought a baby panther. 1-2 month old. The main question I have is what’s different from veiled husbandry to panther? I had a veiled and successfully raised for a long time, but I saw someone tell me not to get a panther as it’s a learning curve.

That's pretty young. Most good breeders won't release them until 3 months. Did you get him from a breeder?

Veileds & Panthers are pretty close, but you can compare via their respective care sheets.
https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/
https://chameleonacademy.com/panther-chameleon-care/

Some other questions I have are what is an okay heating/basking bulb to use? I currently have a 60W halogen but I was also advised not to use that, but on here I’ve seen multiple people say it’s okay. It’s very hard to find an incandescent in stores nowadays.

It can be hard to find incandescents, but IMO, they're still the best first choice. You may have to go online for them. Halogen floods (not spots) are OK at proper distance & temps. My choice for basking lights in order of preference:

1. Household incandescent bulb (not LED)
2. Incandescent flood light (not LED and not spot light)
3. Halogen flood light (not spot light)

A clamp light fixture works well for basking lights, as they're easily aimable.
Basking lamps are best installed/mounted at an angle to produce a temperature gradient rather than a hot-spot.

Also, should I be using Reptivite? I was told on Reddit not to use it for the high phosphorus content but the Reptivite I have says phosphorus free on the back.

I supplement on Sundays (just convenient for me).
On alternate Sundays, I dust with calcium with D3—or multivitamin. All other days, I dust with calcium without D3.

Lastly, the baby was sitting around with his eyes closed but I just brought him home a few days ago. I had a lot of people tell me his lights are too bright which is why I put the halogen in. Just wondering if that would be the reason, I don’t see how there could be anything else wrong with him he looks and acts very healthy.

Lights shouldn't be too bright (consider the Sun) but he should have sufficient foliage that he can get out of the bright light (and UVB) if he wants to.

Both eyes closed could be of concern.
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-closed-eyes/

 

[Etheoffo]

That's pretty young. Most good breeders won't release them until 3 months. Did you get him from a breeder?

Veileds & Panthers are pretty close, but you can compare via their respective care sheets.
https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/
https://chameleonacademy.com/panther-chameleon-care/


It can be hard to find incandescents, but IMO, they're still the best first choice. You may have to go online for them. Halogen floods (not spots) are OK at proper distance & temps. My choice for basking lights in order of preference:

1. Household incandescent bulb (not LED)
2. Incandescent flood light (not LED and not spot light)
3. Halogen flood light (not spot light)

A clamp light fixture works well for basking lights, as they're easily aimable.
Basking lamps are best installed/mounted at an angle to produce a temperature gradient rather than a hot-spot.

I supplement on Sundays (just convenient for me).
On alternate Sundays, I dust with calcium with D3—or multivitamin. All other days, I dust with calcium without D3.


Lights shouldn't be too bright (consider the Sun) but he should have sufficient foliage that he can get out of the bright light (and UVB) if he wants to.

Both eyes closed could be of concern.
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-closed-eyes/

I believe it was from a breeder. It was a pet store but he said they are all captive bred and he had about 7 panthers all young. He said 4 months on the phone but I asked for the oldest male and he said 2 months.

So Panthers vs Veileds have almost the same husbandry overall. To me one is not harder then the other. But husbandry does need to be spot on.

Closing eyes is not normal and indicates an issue. Babies that young really should not have added heat. Avoid Reddit and google for finding husbandry info. 90% of it will be wrong.

For a baby that young you still would want to be giving calcium without D3 for your main supplement. All reptivite has a 2:1 phosphorus ratio to it. However this is still within limits for reptiles. This supplement is widely used among cham keepers but this is only used 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. You would do that for either the with D3 version or without D3 version.

If you want to do a husbandry review we can go over everything. Just copy and paste the form below into your reply and fill it out with detail. Please add pictures of the enclosure as well.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

• Your Chameleon - 2 month male Panther. Had him for less than a week.
• Handling - I’ve handled him only when he hangs from the top as I don’t want him to get burns.
• Feeding - Mealworms and crickets so far. I bought a hornworm but it was too big. Right now I have 5 crickets and 5 mealworms in a bowl. Waiting for him to eat for the first time. I feed him in the morning but usually throughout the day. Feeders are gut loaded with a chopped blend of collard greens, blueberries, bell peppers.
• Supplements - I have calcium with and without D3 both Zoo Med brand. I also have Reptivite without D3. The way I did it with my previous Cham was without D3 daily, with D3 every other Tuesday and Reptivite every other Thursday.
• Watering - I have a dripper installed and I hand mist. I mist 4 times a day usually 2 minutes each session. I have already seen him drinking twice.
• Fecal Description - Fecal is brown/black. Urates are slightly yellow. Has not been tested for parasites, going to be making an appointment once he gets comfortable with me.
• Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 2x2x4 feet PVC panel cage. Has a vent under the door and a screen top. (Zen Habitat)
• Lighting - Lighting schedule is 10am-10pm. I just bought a 60W incandescent today and a new UVB. The UVB is a T8 5.0 linear.
• Temperature - The top of the cage sits at 85F which leads me to believe the basking is closer to 90F-100F. Bottom of cage is around 70F. I have three thermometers in the cage.
• Humidity - Humidity fluctuates between 30%-60%. I have two hygrometers in there. I maintain by misting and also live plants.
• Plants - Two live plants, pothos and a dragon tree.
• Placement - Cage is located next to our living room window. The very top is about 6 feet up. I have a fan running 24/7 in the house but it’s not pointed directly at the cage. Our radiator also lines the wall under the cage but that doesn’t seem to create any temperature issues.
• Location - Wisconsin

 

[Beman]

Give me a bit to go over everything.

 

[Beman]

If you could post pics as well that would be really helpful too. Of the cage and the cham. See my feedback and questions in bold. Let me know if you have questions.

• 
  
• 
  
• Your Chameleon - 2 month male Panther. Had him for less than a week.
• Handling - I’ve handled him only when he hangs from the top as I don’t want him to get burns. Fixtures should be lifted if he can get to the screen top.
• Feeding - Mealworms and crickets so far. I bought a hornworm but it was too big. Right now I have 5 crickets and 5 mealworms in a bowl. Waiting for him to eat for the first time. I feed him in the morning but usually throughout the day. Feeders are gut loaded with a chopped blend of collard greens, blueberries, bell peppers. See image for feeders and gutload. Gutload should be expanded on adding more leafy greens. Mealworms are not the best feeder. And a 2 month old panther will need more than 2 dozen 1/4 inch crickets a day.
• Supplements - I have calcium with and without D3 both Zoo Med brand. I also have Reptivite without D3. The way I did it with my previous Cham was without D3 daily, with D3 every other Tuesday and Reptivite every other Thursday. So as long as you are rotating week to week between the calcium with D3 and the Reptivite without D3 you are good with these two. Then all other feedings should be calcium without D3.
• Watering - I have a dripper installed and I hand mist. I mist 4 times a day usually 2 minutes each session. I have already seen him drinking twice.
• Fecal Description - Fecal is brown/black. Urates are slightly yellow. Has not been tested for parasites, going to be making an appointment once he gets comfortable with me. Good that you will be getting him tested.
• Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 2x2x4 feet PVC panel cage. Has a vent under the door and a screen top. (Zen Habitat) Please post pics.
• Lighting - Lighting schedule is 10am-10pm. I just bought a 60W incandescent today and a new UVB. The UVB is a T8 5.0 linear. So the T8 with the 5.0 bulb will only push UVB about 3 inches down. These are not the best to use anymore. You can either get a 10.0 bulb for your T8 and then the branch would be 5-6 inches below the fixture sitting on the screen. OR go ahead and buy the T5HO fixture and 5.0 bulb for it and basking branches would be no closer than 8-9 inches below. I would not recommend using the T8 with an adult because they are going to sit much too close to the screen.
• Temperature - The top of the cage sits at 85F which leads me to believe the basking is closer to 90F-100F. Bottom of cage is around 70F. I have three thermometers in the cage. How are you getting your basking temp? You will dehydrate the baby with these basking temps. Many babies with extreme basking temps die because they can not handle the temps. Babies that young typically breeders do not even add a basking fixture. Those that do provide temps of no hotter than 80 at basking.
• Humidity - Humidity fluctuates between 30%-60%. I have two hygrometers in there. I maintain by misting and also live plants. What kind of Hygrometers? 30 is a bit low for a panther... 50-60% daytime humidity is what is recommended.
• Plants - Two live plants, pothos and a dragon tree.
• Placement - Cage is located next to our living room window. The very top is about 6 feet up. I have a fan running 24/7 in the house but it’s not pointed directly at the cage. Our radiator also lines the wall under the cage but that doesn’t seem to create any temperature issues. Watch temps if the cage gets direct sun. If it does you should move the cage or keep the curtains pulled to reduce the ambient heat it will create.
• Location - Wisconsin

 

[Etheoffo]

If you could post pics as well that would be really helpful too. Of the cage and the cham. See my feedback and questions in bold. Let me know if you have questions.

• 
  
• 
  
• Your Chameleon - 2 month male Panther. Had him for less than a week.
• Handling - I’ve handled him only when he hangs from the top as I don’t want him to get burns. Fixtures should be lifted if he can get to the screen top.

Made it so he can’t get up there now.

• Feeding - Mealworms and crickets so far. I bought a hornworm but it was too big. Right now I have 5 crickets and 5 mealworms in a bowl. Waiting for him to eat for the first time. I feed him in the morning but usually throughout the day. Feeders are gut loaded with a chopped blend of collard greens, blueberries, bell peppers. See image for feeders and gutload. Gutload should be expanded on adding more leafy greens. Mealworms are not the best feeder. And a 2 month old panther will need more than 2 dozen 1/4 inch crickets a day.

I will be feeding more. Just waiting until he gets through the period of not eating when you first bring them home.

• Supplements - I have calcium with and without D3 both Zoo Med brand. I also have Reptivite without D3. The way I did it with my previous Cham was without D3 daily, with D3 every other Tuesday and Reptivite every other Thursday. So as long as you are rotating week to week between the calcium with D3 and the Reptivite without D3 you are good with these two. Then all other feedings should be calcium without D3.
• Watering - I have a dripper installed and I hand mist. I mist 4 times a day usually 2 minutes each session. I have already seen him drinking twice.
• Fecal Description - Fecal is brown/black. Urates are slightly yellow. Has not been tested for parasites, going to be making an appointment once he gets comfortable with me. Good that you will be getting him tested.
• Cage Info:
• Cage Type - 2x2x4 feet PVC panel cage. Has a vent under the door and a screen top. (Zen Habitat) Please post pics.
• Lighting - Lighting schedule is 10am-10pm. I just bought a 60W incandescent today and a new UVB. The UVB is a T8 5.0 linear. So the T8 with the 5.0 bulb will only push UVB about 3 inches down. These are not the best to use anymore. You can either get a 10.0 bulb for your T8 and then the branch would be 5-6 inches below the fixture sitting on the screen. OR go ahead and buy the T5HO fixture and 5.0 bulb for it and basking branches would be no closer than 8-9 inches below. I would not recommend using the T8 with an adult because they are going to sit much too close to the screen.

I’ll definitely make the change to a 10.0.

• Temperature - The top of the cage sits at 85F which leads me to believe the basking is closer to 90F-100F. Bottom of cage is around 70F. I have three thermometers in the cage. How are you getting your basking temp? You will dehydrate the baby with these basking temps. Many babies with extreme basking temps die because they can not handle the temps. Babies that young typically breeders do not even add a basking fixture. Those that do provide temps of no hotter than 80 at basking.

So the basking temp now sits at 83F since I bought the new incandescent bulb. Ambient temp is 75F.

• Humidity - Humidity fluctuates between 30%-60%. I have two hygrometers in there. I maintain by misting and also live plants. What kind of Hygrometers? 30 is a bit low for a panther... 50-60% daytime humidity is what is recommended.

Humidity has also gone up. Last I checked it was at 60%.

• Plants - Two live plants, pothos and a dragon tree.
• Placement - Cage is located next to our living room window. The very top is about 6 feet up. I have a fan running 24/7 in the house but it’s not pointed directly at the cage. Our radiator also lines the wall under the cage but that doesn’t seem to create any temperature issues. Watch temps if the cage gets direct sun. If it does you should move the cage or keep the curtains pulled to reduce the ambient heat it will create.

Does not get direct sunlight. Always indirect.

 

[MissSkittles]

What a cutie! I would suggest getting more live plants to replace the artificial ones. It would be a challenge to hang them in your enclosure and you may have to get really creative. Even though Zens are quite sturdy on the sides, you’d still want the even sturdier frame to carry any weight.
You’ve gotten the best advice from @Beman and making the changes she suggested will keep your little one healthy and happy.