Releasing chams into the wild.

[Reflexdnb]

really bad idea.....

 

[fluxlizard]

Yes that is an attack on you personally, you're an idiot.

This kind of personal attack is againts forum rules.

I understand where you are coming from and agree that setting chams loose on one's property is poor judgement and a bad idea.

But logic and reasoning can be used to effectively communicate a point. Personal attacks toss reason out the door and closes the mind of the person you wish to influence to your influence and reasoning.

 

[studio2eight]

Dammit my dream of my own exotic rain forest will never be realized. I really did have a dream about that haha

But don't worry guys, I'd hate to put any of my babies in danger as well as ruining it for everyone else

You could always build a huge screen enclosure, like the one's people put up around their pool in Florida, in your backyard and make it a big free range. You would have to regulate how many chams you have in there tho

I have also seen some amazing outdoor free ranges, where a little fence was built around a low height tree, one they can't climb up. But even with that I would be afraid they would leave town... the little escape artists they can be.

 

[tvrsir]

build a hug walk in enclosure with bunch of plants. you would be happ with that.

 

[robertc]

I am shocked at the stupidity displayed in many of these posts in the name of 'freedom.' What I hear is 'I want my freedom to be an ignorant dumbass.'

Yes that is an attack on you personally, you're an idiot. Kudos for asking first, but shame especially on the few people supporting the idea. It's that thinking that gives us all these problems and of course America is one of the worst for invasive species. All it takes is one person.

If you are too stupid to govern your own actions responsibly because you 'own the land', you need to be governed with laws.

The land owns you. You don't own it. Respect it.

I am all for the ban on pythons. Banning them in Florida only would be ridiculous, it would be so easy to get them into Florida from any other State. Same as all these mass shootings you guys have happening in areas with strict gun laws....the entire country needs to adopt the laws for them to be effective.

There's a LOT that needs to be banned.

Someone asked for evidence for chameleons being destructive specifically, well this problem was caused by ONE idiot on Hawaii who released chameleons on to 'his' property in 1972:

http://pacificscience.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/pac-sci-early-view-66-3-10.pdf

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...cksonii)_predation_on_native_Hawaiian_species

And it's dumb hobbyists who have now released veileds onto Hawaii, which are worse than Jackson's because they have a higher metabolism and bigger appetite:

http://www.hawaiiinvasivespecies.org/pests/veiledchameleon.html





I will grant you a lot of the species on Hawaii was introduced by humans over the centuries, but the effects chameleons are having there doesn't change how they would affect your region.




Stupid.

First of all I would like to say that I am against the releasing of chams.

Anyway, I have just read the articles listed above and I do not like the logic structure of their conclusion: there have been found Hawaii insects in a chameleon stomach and thus chameleons are a threat.

In fact, the only result of the article is that the chams eat insects on Hawaii including endemic speacies. But did anybody expect that chams would eat non-endemic insects only (or even old shoes)?

I am missing the investigation concerning the dependence of the size of the insect population with respects to the presence of chameleons.

Conclusion 1:
I do not say that chams are not threat, I just say that the articles prove nothing (only that someone killed 30 chams to learn what everybody expected).

Conclusion 2:
These are purpose-bild articles. If you are doing some research, then if you are able to persuade clerks and other proper people that your research is related to something important, you will publish your articles in better journals, you will have more funds for your research,... Some scientists are just spongers (I am a mathematician, we have such people among us too).

 

[Zen Reptiles]

No, what you are missing is the foresight that the problems you want studies on are going to be far reaching into the future long after we are gone. Give it 500 years.

Unless a virus can be manipulated to target one species, and that virus can be turned off so it doesn't spread to the native range of the species (Africa)...then there is really no solution to this. Maybe nanotechnology can fix the problem. I really believe there is no problem humans cannot fix, but this one has got to be one of the most difficult.

Solutions to problems in the past (cane beetle) have been to introduce its predator (cane toads) and we see how well that worked.....it has created one of the worst natural catastrophes on the planet. There is not really a solution other than a tailored nano virus.

If you think there are going to be significant issues published 30 years after these Jackson's have been introduced, that's dangerously short sighted thinking for something like this.

The issue with this particular thread is that it is on mainland America. I posted about Hawaii because that's all there is any information on. On the mainland, you have two full continents that will be affected by such an adaptive apex predator as the chameleon.

Like I said, a lot of problems can be fixed in the world. But invasive species are one of those problems that is a more daunting task than mining the asteroid belt in space for resources.

 

[Tay And A]

Madagascar

This is exactly why we can only get very few chams in Madagascar now a days. People don't think before they act!

 

[robertc]

No, what you are missing is the foresight that the problems you want studies on are going to be far reaching into the future long after we are gone. Give it 500 years.

Unless a virus can be manipulated to target one species, and that virus can be turned off so it doesn't spread to the native range of the species (Africa)...then there is really no solution to this. Maybe nanotechnology can fix the problem. I really believe there is no problem humans cannot fix, but this one has got to be one of the most difficult.

Solutions to problems in the past (cane beetle) have been to introduce its predator (cane toads) and we see how well that worked.....it has created one of the worst natural catastrophes on the planet. There is not really a solution other than a tailored nano virus.

If you think there are going to be significant issues published 30 years after these Jackson's have been introduced, that's dangerously short sighted thinking for something like this.

The issue with this particular thread is that it is on mainland America. I posted about Hawaii because that's all there is any information on. On the mainland, you have two full continents that will be affected by such an adaptive apex predator as the chameleon.

Like I said, a lot of problems can be fixed in the world. But invasive species are one of those problems that is a more daunting task than mining the asteroid belt in space for resources.

A correction:
The sentence: "I am missing the investigation concerning the dependence of the size of the insect population with respects to the presence of chameleons." was meant as a missing proof that chams are a threat (this would be a proof rather than study of contents of a chameleon stomach).
I did not mean that someone should actually start such a research.

The aim of my post was to show you that the scientists are cheating. Concerning releasing of chams I have the same opinion as you.

 

[italian chameleon]

The issue with this particular thread is that it is on mainland America. I posted about Hawaii because that's all there is any information on. On the mainland, you have two full continents that will be affected by such an adaptive apex predator as the chameleon.
.

you are right but chameleons aren't apex predators! at all!