Remodeling enclosure after lost chameleon

[Everyday Dad]

Hi everyone! I have made a previous post in the health clinic over my issues with my previous cham Ricky. Sadly he did not make it and we never found out what was making him ill. I will be trying one more time to go through all of the proper channels instead of a reptile expo. I also want to document my process if anyone else finds it useful. I am in the early stages here so feel free to treat this as a little game, tell me REMOVE! and its done

I believe Ricky may have had parasites as his poop became very runny and he stopped eating, so I am going to be doing a disinfecting cycle to begin. My disinfecting process is as follows
- I let the enclosure dry out for a month
- I removed any infectious material including branches and plants
- for branches that I did not remove (the smooth wood branches), I have wiped them down with some rubbing alcohol and water. Wiped again with water to remove and will be monitoring and spraying to make sure no alcohol remains.
-Steaming the enclosure many times over the next few months

I got Ricky from a reptile expo, the vet suggested he was never healthy to begin with so I will not be buying from them again. I have since contacted a breeder and I am placed on a waitlist, for around 3-4 months but I suspect it will take longer due to poor weather conditions.

Questions will be bold, underlined, and green.

Quick husbandry review
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon- The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • he will be a male panther chameleon, not born yet and I do not have him so REALLY hand it to me I want to know about any and all mistakes!
  • I am purchasing this cham from chameleons galore, a breeder in Canda. She is super sweet and very helpful!
• Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • None! I made this mistake before and my only handling will be for weight checks. I am thinking about getting him a larger tree for outside time free roam but I am not certain about the conditions so it may not happen (I am located in Calgary AB in Canada)
• Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • BFSL and gut-loaded crickets most likely, when he is young I'm going to try and feed him everything I can get. Since he will be very young I am going to feed him whatever he will eat daily, I hear it is around 10-ish crickets
  • taking suggestions on treats!
  • Gut loading with sweet potato, arugula and apples/carrots
• Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • This is a mistake I made before where I over-supplemented dont trust those reptile expo folks!
  • This is also a pretty big concern for me, since the cham will be 3 months old how will I need to change my supplement schedule?
  • My current thoughts are using calcium without D3 every feeding, since he is young I hear the you can give the multivitamin weekly but I would like to confirm this
  • The adult supplement schedule will be calcium without D3 on every feeding, every 2 weeks he can get his multivitamin
  • He has Rep-cal calcium without D3 daily, and the multivitamin will be the reptashy with the Jacksons chameleon on it
• Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • He will be getting misted 3 times throughout the night for 2 minutes. I have two nozles at the moment but I think I will be getting a third because they don't seem to reach the middle very well
  • I have a fogger but I have one concern about it, sometimes his night temps can reach up to 70F but most of the time they get around 65F. Should I still use it or will the mister be enough?
  • He will have a dripper for hydration during the day
  • All water systems will be cleaned weekly with a vinegar soak.
• History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • as mentioned I previously had Ricky who likely had parasites. Is my disinfection routine sufficient?

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Screen 2x2x4 ft enclosure, bioactive
• Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • 7am to 7pm, For UVB we have an arcadia ProT5 6% forest, I had an LED light with coloured lights but I am going to remove it for his eyes
  • also thinking of getting a solarmeter since good old Ricky likely did not get enough UVB.
  • Do I need a new LED light or will the heat lamp/UVB be enough?
• Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Basking temp used to be around 85F, but I am not sure if this temp works for a 3 month old cham. What temperature should I be using?
• Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • The misters are not going right now but previously he had night time humidity of around 80%
• Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Lots of different kinds of plants but mainly pothos and some philodendrons, see picture for more info.
  • I am taking some cutting of my large pothos for more vines in the back, I am also likely going to be changing some plants in the front. I will keep this thread updated!
  • Do I need more vines up top, or should I rearrange them for higher coverage?
• Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • located in my basement, no fans/vents nearby. The only traffic he will see will be me getting ready for work and sometimes family walking through to the exit, otherwise a pretty secluded dark area. The cage is located on the ground and goes around halfway up the wall
• Location- Where are you geographically located?
  • Calgary, AB, Canada

Thank you for reading everyone, and thank you to everyone who gives me advice! This is going to be a long process but I am ready to listen!

 

[Beman]

Let's start here please before we roll into husbandry.

I believe Ricky may have had parasites as his poop became very runny and he stopped eating, so I am going to be doing a disinfecting cycle to begin. My disinfecting process is as follows
- I let the enclosure dry out for a month
- I removed any infectious material including branches and plants
- for branches that I did not remove (the smooth wood branches), I have wiped them down with some rubbing alcohol and water. Wiped again with water to remove and will be monitoring and spraying to make sure no alcohol remains.
-Steaming the enclosure many times over the next few months

So this is the concern I have. If there was a parasite issue not all are easy to get rid of. Parasites like Coccidia will not just clean away with the methods you used above. You literally have to strip an entire cage then start with the bare cage. Everything porous gets thrown away (plants, dirt, branches,) With what I am seeing of your image and how you built it if the chameleon had something like coccidia there is no way to clean the walls in yours that you built. Everything would have the potential for having oocysts that could reinfect the next chameleon when it drinks off of something etc. Literally the only thing that kills coccidia off is 40volume liquid peroxide. and you have to spray it on the frame and screens let it sit for 20 minutes then rinse it all back off. This is the only thing that will kill off the oocysts. But you would not be able to do this with the cage you have because of how you built out your walls. No way to fully wash away the peroxide.

If the fecal was really mucousy, runny, or smelly then it very well could have been coccidia.

 

[Everyday Dad]

Ah shoot, Ricky did have diarrhea. You're right we have no idea what could have caused the illness he have so it's entirely possible.

OK, I don't suppose there's any way for me to keep what I have then. I do not want to cheap out and infect this new cham. Luckily I can still reuse the mistking, lighting, etc so it's not a horrible loss cost-wise. It will be a bummer to toss but I've learned many things from so at least I can transfer those! Thanks for your help @Beman I'll keep you posted on enclosure 2!

I will continue with my husbandry for now, are there any mistakes in that set up as it is? Enclosure 2 will likely be fairly similar on the husbandry side of things.

 

[Beman]

Ah shoot, Ricky did have diarrhea. You're right we have no idea what could have caused the illness he have so it's entirely possible.

OK, I don't suppose there's any way for me to keep what I have then. I do not want to cheap out and infect this new cham. Luckily I can still reuse the mistking, lighting, etc so it's not a horrible loss cost-wise. It will be a bummer to toss but I've learned many things from so at least I can transfer those! Thanks for your help @Beman I'll keep you posted on enclosure 2!

I will continue with my husbandry for now, are there any mistakes in that set up as it is? Enclosure 2 will likely be fairly similar on the husbandry side of things.

Yeah I just would not risk it. Everything on the outside of the cage you can keep... For the mistking nozzles take them off and wash really well. Let air dry and they will be fine. It is the porous material that are the big concern.

Let me look through everything tomorrow. Sorry already worked a 40 hour week since Monday and am a little worn out to think right now. lol

 

[Everyday Dad]

No worries! I have lots of homework now with the rennovations
On the bright side I get to go plant shopping again!

 

[Beman]

Going to go through your husbandry info and questions now.

 

[Beman]

See my feedback in Red Bold. Please ignore any grammar issues its been a rather long week for me lol. Let me know if you have questions. Adding feedback in two sections because I type too much.

• Your Chameleon- The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • he will be a male panther chameleon, not born yet and I do not have him so REALLY hand it to me I want to know about any and all mistakes!
  • I am purchasing this cham from chameleons galore, a breeder in Canda. She is super sweet and very helpful! Baby should be right around 3-4 months old when you get it NOT YOUNGER. If younger it is pretty risky as they are even more fragile.
• Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • None! I made this mistake before and my only handling will be for weight checks. I am thinking about getting him a larger tree for outside time free roam but I am not certain about the conditions so it may not happen (I am located in Calgary AB in Canada) So handling is not the issue it is how you go about it. It is extremely important to build trust. You need this to clean out dead plants in the cage, to move into a travel box for vet trips, to be able to take the chameleon from cage to a free range area. Etc. But it is how you go about doing it. You want to build trust and essentially you are doing this by relating your hands to giving treats. My blog on this. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/
• Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • BFSL and gut-loaded crickets most likely, when he is young I'm going to try and feed him everything I can get. Since he will be very young I am going to feed him whatever he will eat daily, I hear it is around 10-ish crickets babies around the 3 month mark and older take down 2 dozen small insects a day easily. They start to curb down on food intake as they mature around the 9 month mark. When this happens you will see the shift they will leave insects. That is when you know to cut back to 10-12 a day. Again watching the food intake because they will curb down again and that is when you shift to every other day feeding. By 12 months old you want them to be on every other day feeding of 3-5 insects.
  • taking suggestions on treats! Best treat to build trust and is like cham cake is wax worms. You can get away with using these when they are under the 1 year mark. Use only when hand feeding. Then it is the special thing they only get from you.
  • Gut loading with sweet potato, arugula and apples/carrots. This needs to be expanded look at the gutload image attached.
• Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • This is a mistake I made before where I over-supplemented dont trust those reptile expo folks!
  • This is also a pretty big concern for me, since the cham will be 3 months old how will I need to change my supplement schedule?
  • My current thoughts are using calcium without D3 every feeding, since he is young I hear the you can give the multivitamin weekly but I would like to confirm this
  • The adult supplement schedule will be calcium without D3 on every feeding, every 2 weeks he can get his multivitamin
  • He has Rep-cal calcium without D3 daily, and the multivitamin will be the reptashy with the Jacksons chameleon on it so supplements for 3 month old to adult do not change. You will lightly dust with supplements they should never look like powdered donuts. You will dust all insects. You will use phosphorus free calcium without D3 at all feedings and then 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th you will use the repashy calcium plus LoD with the jackson cham on it. So you are good with the rep cal and the repashy you have.
• Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • He will be getting misted 3 times throughout the night for 2 minutes. I have two nozles at the moment but I think I will be getting a third because they don't seem to reach the middle very well. So You want to mist in the day. They need the opportunity to drink and clean their eyes. 2-4 minutes right after lights kick on and then another one a few hours before lights kick off. you can add misting in at night as well just make sure you have a lot of plant cover so your not soaking the baby. Length of misting depends on ambient humidity levels, if they are higher then you reduce to a 2 minute. If lower you can extend the length. Spike in humidity is normal but then it should drop down to 50% not sit higher.
  • I have a fogger but I have one concern about it, sometimes his night temps can reach up to 70F but most of the time they get around 65F. Should I still use it or will the mister be enough? A fogger would only be used if you can maintain temps at night below 67. Lower than that is better.
  • He will have a dripper for hydration during the day
  • All water systems will be cleaned weekly with a vinegar soak. This is over kill for a mistking system.
• History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • as mentioned I previously had Ricky who likely had parasites. Is my disinfection routine sufficient? We covered this.

 

[Beman]

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Screen 2x2x4 ft enclosure, bioactive
• Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • 7am to 7pm, For UVB we have an arcadia ProT5 6% forest, I had an LED light with coloured lights but I am going to remove it for his eyes
  • also thinking of getting a solarmeter since good old Ricky likely did not get enough UVB. Solarmeters are great to confirm UVI. However as long as you have a branch 8-9 inches parallel below the UVB fixture sitting on top of the screen and the screen is aluminum window screen you will get a 3-4 UVI range with an Arcadia prot5 and a 6% bulb.
  • Do I need a new LED light or will the heat lamp/UVB be enough? I highly recommend having a good LED light for your plants. I use a jungle dawn led bar from arcadia.
• Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Basking temp used to be around 85F, but I am not sure if this temp works for a 3 month old cham. What temperature should I be using? Basking temp for a male panther as an adult would be max temp of 85. Typically you want a range of 80-85. If your temp at the branch is 85 then it is too hot where they rise up higher. Babies your looking for 80-82 nothing hotter.
• Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • The misters are not going right now but previously he had night time humidity of around 80% Remember humidity is humidity this is the same with fogging vs misting. So you really want your night time temps below 67 still. Otherwise you still are risking an RI developing because it is still hot moist air no matter the method.
• Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Lots of different kinds of plants but mainly pothos and some philodendrons, see picture for more info. See image for safe plants.
  • I am taking some cutting of my large pothos for more vines in the back, I am also likely going to be changing some plants in the front. I will keep this thread updated! Remember you want to toss everything to prevent reinfection risk in the new baby.
  • Do I need more vines up top, or should I rearrange them for higher coverage?
• Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • located in my basement, no fans/vents nearby. The only traffic he will see will be me getting ready for work and sometimes family walking through to the exit, otherwise a pretty secluded dark area. The cage is located on the ground and goes around halfway up the wall. Cage has to be put on a table. Needs to be about 24 inches off the floor. This makes it so the cham at basking level is more at eye level with your face not being towered over which can cause stress. Additionally their natural instinct is to be as far away from the ground as possible. So having it on the floor will cause stress.
• Location- Where are you geographically located?
  • Calgary, AB, Canada

Additionally there will be some modifications you will need to make if you get a young baby that is able to climb to the top screen of the cage. Such as lifting the lighting 4 inches off the top of the cage. Then you will drop in temp branches 4-5 inches down from the screen. Most babies screen climb pretty actively until they weigh too much and it becomes uncomfortable. Paying very close attention to the positioning of the basking fixture and the wattage being used to ensure temps at the screen do not exceed 80. This can often mean even with a 60watt bulb you have to raise it higher than 4 inches.

 

[Everyday Dad]

Thank you so much! Currently removing everything from the e nclosure then I will likely take ti apart and use the hydrogen peroxide method to disinfect! Looks like I should be on the lookout for a table while I get some new branches. I will post new pics of the enclosure once I have it set up! I have a dimming heat lamp so I can alter the temps at the screen but im sure I will have some questions about the little one climbing on the screen. All this information is invaluable!

 

[Beman]

Thank you so much! Currently removing everything from the e nclosure then I will likely take ti apart and use the hydrogen peroxide method to disinfect! Looks like I should be on the lookout for a table while I get some new branches. I will post new pics of the enclosure once I have it set up! I have a dimming heat lamp so I can alter the temps at the screen but im sure I will have some questions about the little one climbing on the screen. All this information is invaluable!

Remember you have to pull everything out and take it down to screen. Everything else gets thrown away. THen wash the actual cage really well dawn and hot water as your first step to cleaning. Be careful with where you are pulling everything out. You do not want to cross contaminate anything.

 

[Everyday Dad]

absolutely! dirt, branches plants etc. The only thing I will keep is the screen enclosure itself, thank you for your help!

 

[Beman]

absolutely! dirt, branches plants etc. The only thing I will keep is the screen enclosure itself, thank you for your help!

My pleasure.

 

[MzLaurie]

If you are going plant shopping, I love monstera. The broad leaf offers shade and stalks ate strong. I would ditch the bioactive aspect of the cage especially if you dealt with parasites. Also go.clean screen with two sides covered and taped down with vinyl on the outside of the screens. I do the back and left side where my electrical supply is. It helps with humidity levels and over mist. Bioactive is really for someone who has a lot of experience withbio. Nice clean environment allows you to keep a good bead on the fecal and urates. Also I would wait and get a four !month old instead of three. Also Flukers bend a branch vines and sticks no bigger than your thumb. you can clean your pathos real well and pot it. Use new top soil you can clean it with Chlorhexidine Gluconate 2%.it won't hurt the leaves or stems. Good luck to you!

 

[Everyday Dad]

Oh shoot I didn't get a notification when you commented @MzLaurie. Thank you for your reply and well wishes, I'm absolutely getting a monstera.

Right now I have some pothos, philodendron a Croton and I plan on getting a Monstera. I am not sure which plant I want to use for my centerpiece, stuck between a money tree or an umbrella tree but I am open to suggestions. Thank you for the tips. I plan on following that cleaning protocol and taping some background to the sides for humidity.

As for the bioactive part, I want to strive for a bioactive enclosure. That being said I do want to be cognisant of any concerns this brings up. In terms of parasites, I have totally thrown out everything that was used previously. I will be buying all new substrates, and drainage layers and I will be thoroughly cleaning my enclosure. Once I start putting things together I will be updating this thread, so far I plan to use the instructions from this thread https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/bioactive.173246/. I may use a plastic pond liner to create my planter box but the drainage system will be the same.

I am open to suggestions though, I have already learned so much from everyone!

 

[ERKleRose]

My vote is for an umbrella tree! There’s coverage/leaves and walkways via the branches of the plant everywhere, from top to bottom! Be careful when taping the background, you don’t want any tape accessible from the inside of the cage. I personally screw pvc or coroplast (dirt cheap) panels into the frame, and if you remove the screen from the side you’re covering, seal along the entire inside edges with silicone or hot glue.

I love bioactive enclosures, and that’s a great guide! Just make sure to quarantine your next cham in a sterile cage (non bioactive and easy to clean) for at least a couple of months and have at least 3 fecals (in a row) come back clean! It’s easier to transition to bioactive once there’s a clean bill of health rather than putting a new cham straight into a bioactive enclosure with the possibility of having to trash it all if there are parasites

 

[Everyday Dad]

That is an excellent idea! How do you go about setting up a sterile cage? Are the parameters (2x2x4 ft) the same? I assume it will be bare bottom and I can transfer my other husbandry items like water systems, feeding and supplementation and whatnot.

 

[ERKleRose]

That is an excellent idea! How do you go about setting up a sterile cage? Are the parameters (2x2x4 ft) the same? I assume it will be bare bottom and I can transfer my other husbandry items like water systems, feeding and supplementation and whatnot.

Yes indeed to the parameters, bare bottom, and husbandry! It’s a bare bottom cage with easy to sanitize items and/or cheap/easily replaceable items (fake plants and vines, branches that you can cut down from around your area to easily replace if needed, cheap and easy to find plants like pothos). It’s the same as a normal chameleon cage, just easy to take apart and sanitize if needed

 

[Everyday Dad]

I see, I would feel bad putting him in a fairly bare-bones enclosure when his fancy mansion is sitting so close haha! It sure would be handy to have if he ever got sick though. I will have to look into a second enclosure

How would I go about sanitizing branches I collect from my area? They would most likely be cherry or pine branches if those work

 

[ERKleRose]

I see, I would feel bad putting him in a fairly bare-bones enclosure when his fancy mansion is sitting so close haha! It sure would be handy to have if he ever got sick though. I will have to look into a second enclosure

How would I go about sanitizing branches I collect from my area? They would most likely be cherry or pine branches if those work

It doesn’t have to be bare bones. A schefflera arboricola and a pothos or just pothos (need multiple then), at least 4-5 branches minimum, vines to connect the branches (Fluker’s Bend-a-Branch are great!), and a couple of fake plants (if needed), works great if you want to go with the mostly live plant route!

You can just use Dawn dish soap and hot water, scrub good, and rinse very,very, very well afterwards, then let dry in the sun. You can also bake branches if they’re small enough to fit in an oven or grill. If you’re really worried, you can use activated hydrogen peroxide, though that tends to shorten the lifespan of the branches in my experience. I have no idea if cherry is safe, but I know pine is toxic. Maple, oak, manzanita, birch, walnut, and crepe myrtle are all safe, along with most hardwoods/any non toxic non sap producing tree. Where do you live? I can look up trees native to your area if those aren’t near you

 

[Everyday Dad]

I will continue to look into the cherry. I have a few in my backyard, so it would be nice if it worked out. It's not a common branch to use, though. I've found a few threads that have some information, but nobody is really sure. I live in Calgary Canada so I might be able to get my hands on a maple or Birch, I wouldn't want to experiment with different woods since I am so new. Some reptile keepers have used it before and it seems like the most dangerous part is the cherry pits and leaves which will all be removed. That being said, I believe it is a resinous tree so I am a bit puzzled.

I've found one thread where it was mentioned,
https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...7/#:~:text=Cured cherry lumber should be fine.

Worst case I will take a trip out and find a nice big maple tree!