Rescue Veiled Behavior/RI&Treatment

[cla2806]

I recently rescued a veiled from FB, it's been a few weeks since he's been with me. He was in a screen enclosure with fake plants and a fairly sparse set up. He was still eating, and he spent a few days soaking up natural sun while I prepared his new enclosure, a glass 36x18x36. My house is cold and dry, having a screen enclosure would be a nightmare to maintain. I believe he is somewhere between 6-9 months old, his enclosure is bioactive, Arcadia jungle dawn LED/Arcadia 6% UVB, 100 Watt heat emitter for basking, UVB and basking 6in below screen, I am misting just after lights come on and after lights go out. Temps during the day 70-73, humidity 50-65, at night, 65-68, humidity 80-90. I check his basking temps every day with a temp gun. He has been eating like a champ since I picked him up, 9-10 gut loaded crickets, I got him to eat a couple Dubia and he loves hornworms now. I dust every feeding with Repashy w/o D3 and I have dusted with D3 once so far. The top of the enclosure is screen and I turn on a ceiling fan to circulate some air, not sure if thats enough!

After putting him in his new enclosure, he was fine for the first couple days but started to hang on the cork/foam background. I also see him pawing at the corner of the glass. I feel like the environment in the cage are normal and he has two money trees and other plants inside for cover. I thought it may be his reflection, I bought some aquarium backing to block one side but it didn't seem to help. I do see him basking, but I will often find him on the background, see photos.

A few days ago, I noticed a bump on his head area, and I hear some slight popping sounds that I suspected may be the beginnings of a RI. I looked back at photos of him before I picked him up and noticed the bump was already there. I took him to the vet and the vet advised the bump could be a cyst or abscess, but without lancing it and seeing what's inside we would not know. The vet advised I monitor him since he is so small and he seemed to look good, he was not lethargic, active, and angry during our visit. I asked about the RI but the vet told me he looked fine.

A couple days later, he started gaping while he was basking. I noticed him gaping at other times and the vet prescribed Baytril. Yesterday was the first does and it was definitely a stressful event. He hissed and freaked out when I grabbed him. I was able to get the tiny dose in his mouth. That night, he slept at the bottom of his cage, something he has never done.

My Questions:

-I can't figure out why he his hanging around on the background! Is it because he is used to more vertical space than horizontal and he is still looking for a way up? Do I need more foliage?

-I am worried about his RI but he continues to be active, drinking and eating really well. Can treating them for illness cause them so much stress that they get worse? Is that why he was the bottom of the cage?

- I understand with glass, misting schedules may need to be adjusted. I have been using hygrometers to monitor the humidity and mist based on those numbers to keep ideal humidity. Was it too humid?

I really care about this guy and I want him to pull through!

Thank you.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome back. It’s easiest for me to just give direct feedback.
I recently rescued a veiled from FB, it's been a few weeks since he's been with me. He was in a screen enclosure with fake plants and a fairly sparse set up. Do you know if he had correct uvb or supplementation? He was still eating, and he spent a few days soaking up natural sun while I prepared his new enclosure, a glass 36x18x36. My house is cold and dry, having a screen enclosure would be a nightmare to maintain. Have you considered a hybrid or modifying a screen enclosure to be more contained? More about this later. I believe he is somewhere between 6-9 months old, he may be, but his casque is a bit short for that age, unless his growth was stunted from poor care. his enclosure is bioactive, Arcadia jungle dawn LED/Arcadia 6% UVB, uvb is perfect 100 Watt heat emitter for basking, wondering why a heat emitter vs a bulb? Plus, 100w seems a bit strong. UVB and basking 6in below screen, distance needs to be around 8”. I advise raising the lights off the top by the needed few inches. Check out Etsy for ReptiRisers. I am misting just after lights come on and after lights go out. Hopefully for at least a full 2 minutes each time. Temps during the day 70-73, what is basking temp? For little ones and females, you don’t want to exceed 80. Adult males can go up to 85. humidity 50-65, This is too high for daytime for a veiled. Needs to be below 50% (range is between 30-50%) at night, 65-68, humidity 80-90. Night temps and humidity is perfect I check his basking temps every day with a temp gun. Have you checked at all with a digital thermometer with a wired probe end? What is basking temp? He has been eating like a champ since I picked him up, 9-10 gut loaded crickets, I got him to eat a couple Dubia and he loves hornworms now. Great I dust every feeding with Repashy w/o D3 should I assume you mean Repashy Supercal nod? and I have dusted with D3 once so far what is your plan for the schedule? What about a multivitamin? Repashy calcium Plus LoD is an excellent combination product for D3 and multivitamin and is given one feeding every other week (or twice a month if you prefer) . The top of the enclosure is screen and I turn on a ceiling fan to circulate some air, not sure if thats enough! I don’t think it is enough. It would be much better to place a small fan on top of the screen and have it pulling air from the enclosure to better promote air circulation. Your bioactive looks very close to the air vents below the doors and I can’t tell if they’re obstructed at all. They need to be clear in order for the chimney effect of air circulation to occur and having an all glass enclosure, you need that more than ever. This is my concern (one of them) for using all glass. I understand being in a dry area, but it’s pretty easy to modify a screen enclosure to hold in humidity. Some attach coroplast, vinyl or other solid panels to the back and two sides. I’ve made faux background panels before using lighting egg crate, expanding foam and sticking coco coir on it. Another option is applying shrink to fit insulating window film. Even a shower curtain over the back and sides works quite well. This provides the humidity and heat maintenance while still providing lots of ventilation. Also, the standard minimum size is a 2x2x4’. The extra width of your glass tank has been argued to be equivalent space, but I am a cheerleader for providing as much space as we can. I keep all of mine in double wide enclosures and after seeing how they use all of the space (even my girls), I just have to promote it when I can.

After putting him in his new enclosure, he was fine for the first couple days but started to hang on the cork/foam background. I also see him pawing at the corner of the glass. I think chameleons are going to take every opportunity to walk on every surface they can. But, I also see and am concerned at how very close he’s able to get to the light when he’s on the background. That places him at a high risk for burns. You could try adding more branches or vines for him. Pawing at the glass is a separate issue. While I can’t say with any certainty why he is doing it, I can guess that he may be trying to get out. If it was just seeing his reflection, he’d also be all fired up with his colors and gular expanded. I feel like the environment in the cage are normal and he has two money trees and other plants inside for cover. Yes, I do like the amount of plant cover, but once those plants start growing in, and he starts growing bigger, you’ll be seeing the need for a larger enclosure. I thought it may be his reflection, I bought some aquarium backing to block one side but it didn't seem to help. I do see him basking, but I will often find him on the background, see photos.

A few days ago, I noticed a bump on his head area, and I hear some slight popping sounds that I suspected may be the beginnings of a RI. I looked back at photos of him before I picked him up and noticed the bump was already there. I took him to the vet and the vet advised the bump could be a cyst or abscess, but without lancing it and seeing what's inside we would not know. Yes, this is true and it will need to be done at some point. Chameleon pus is very thick like cheese and doesn’t go away on its own, even with antibiotics. It needs to be physically removed by a vet. Because of the site of the bump, I wouldn’t delay too much as it could affect his eyes or sinuses. The vet advised I monitor him since he is so small and he seemed to look good, he was not lethargic, active, and angry during our visit. I asked about the RI but the vet told me he looked fine. Not all vets have a decent amount of experience or knowledge about chameleons. I’ll attach our vet list.

A couple days later, he started gaping while he was basking. I noticed him gaping at other times and the vet prescribed Baytril. Yesterday was the first does and it was definitely a stressful event. He hissed and freaked out when I grabbed him. I was able to get the tiny dose in his mouth. It is very stressful for him. I’ll attach a video of how I gave my big veiled guy his meds. I didn’t remove him from his enclosure and was quick and gentle. He was a very shy cham and this was what I found was best for him. That night, he slept at the bottom of his cage, something he has never done. I’d guess a combination of not feeling well from the RI, maybe a bit of GI upset from the med and from the stress of receiving the med. poor guy.

My Questions:

-I can't figure out why he his hanging around on the background! Is it because he is used to more vertical space than horizontal and he is still looking for a way up? Do I need more foliage? I believe it’s just because he can. Same reason why little chams walk upside down along their screen tops. I think your foliage is ok, but try adding more branches and vines for him to travel on.

-I am worried about his RI but he continues to be active, drinking and eating really well. Can treating them for illness cause them so much stress that they get worse? Possibly, but the alternative of not treating them guarantees they’ll get worse Is that why he was the bottom of the cage? Already gave my opinion above

- I understand with glass, misting schedules may need to be adjusted. I have been using hygrometers to monitor the humidity and mist based on those numbers to keep ideal humidity. Was it too humid? Yes and you need better air circulation/ventilation. I advise a modified screen enclosure, but in the meantime at the very least, place a small fan on top to draw out the air.

I really care about this guy and I want him to pull through! Bless you for taking him and improving his life. I’m hoping he pulls thru too. I believe he’s in good hands with you.

Thank you.
I hope I’ve been of some help to you, Do ask as many questions as needed and keep us updated on how your little sweetie is doing and his recovery.

 

[ERKleRose]

Welcome on here, and thank you for rescuing him! @MissSkittles has you completely covered, you’re in the best hands with her! The only things I’d like to add is that you want your uvb to span the entire length of the enclosure! So if you’re going to eventually upgrade to a 4’x2’x4’ tall cage (which is the recommended cage size) or bigger if possible, buy the Arcadia ProT5 48” 6% kit, it’ll save you money in the long run! Also, is your current uvb T8 or T5HO, and what do you gutload with?

 

[cla2806]

Hey MissSkittles! Thank you for all the information.

I went in today and turned his basking bulb down, its on a dimmer ,and I check the temperature daily. I had been maintaining it between 85-87. After turning it down, I checked on him a little later and he was basking. I am wondering if I have been keeping that spot too hot for him and he retreated, but why retreat to the background and not any other spot on in the cage? I am wondering if he was basking under the LED instead. Also, it was later in the evening, a short time before his lights go off, he will come off the background and settle somewhere in the cage for sleep.

He ate well again today, 8-9 crickets and a couple hornworms. I am worried about his hydration since I am not fogging and I plan on getting that setup. I have the fogger, I need distilled water and I needed to see if I could set it up on a timer. I have been checking his urates and fecal matter, both look normal.

I can adjust the basking vine and branch to be a smidge lower, I created a network of branches using manzanita but he seems to favor the vine. I did check the vents and they are not obstructed by the substrate.

He also looks like he is going into shed!! Poor guy. I am going to get a fan to bring the humidity down during the day. I double checked it today and it was at 47% during the day. I also have the Repashy super cal and the no LOD. I will be dusting twice a month with the D3.

I am happy his appetite is not waning, I know when that goes, they are in the pits. I have considered a hybrid enclosure since I feel like full screen would obviously need some modifications in my home. I am also in southern California and eventually I would like to build some large outdoor enclosures and keep them outside.

I will continue his antibiotics, tomorrow he's up for another dose and I appreciate your video! Thanks for the vet list, I actually reached out to the veterinarian on the list for my area but they were so expensive just for the exam, I took him to another I had found. After his RI clears up, I will definitely take him to the recommended doctor.

 

[cla2806]

Welcome on here, and thank you for rescuing him! @MissSkittles has you completely covered, you’re in the best hands with her! The only things I’d like to add is that you want your uvb to span the entire length of the enclosure! So if you’re going to eventually upgrade to a 4’x2’x4’ tall cage (which is the recommended cage size) or bigger if possible, buy the Arcadia ProT5 48” 6% kit, it’ll save you money in the long run! Also, is your current uvb T8 or T5HO, and what do you gutload with?

Hey Erkle!

Thanks for the information on the UVB. I have the Arcadia Pro T5.

I am gut loading with kale, oranges, apples, carrots and sweet potatoes!

 

[Beman]

Hey MissSkittles! Thank you for all the information.

I went in today and turned his basking bulb down, its on a dimmer ,and I check the temperature daily. I had been maintaining it between 85-87. After turning it down, I checked on him a little later and he was basking. I am wondering if I have been keeping that spot too hot for him and he retreated, but why retreat to the background and not any other spot on in the cage? I am wondering if he was basking under the LED instead. Also, it was later in the evening, a short time before his lights go off, he will come off the background and settle somewhere in the cage for sleep.

He ate well again today, 8-9 crickets and a couple hornworms. I am worried about his hydration since I am not fogging and I plan on getting that setup. I have the fogger, I need distilled water and I needed to see if I could set it up on a timer. I have been checking his urates and fecal matter, both look normal.

I can adjust the basking vine and branch to be a smidge lower, I created a network of branches using manzanita but he seems to favor the vine. I did check the vents and they are not obstructed by the substrate.

He also looks like he is going into shed!! Poor guy. I am going to get a fan to bring the humidity down during the day. I double checked it today and it was at 47% during the day. I also have the Repashy super cal and the no LOD. I will be dusting twice a month with the D3.

I am happy his appetite is not waning, I know when that goes, they are in the pits. I have considered a hybrid enclosure since I feel like full screen would obviously need some modifications in my home. I am also in southern California and eventually I would like to build some large outdoor enclosures and keep them outside.

I will continue his antibiotics, tomorrow he's up for another dose and I appreciate your video! Thanks for the vet list, I actually reached out to the veterinarian on the list for my area but they were so expensive just for the exam, I took him to another I had found. After his RI clears up, I will definitely take him to the recommended doctor.

Hey there I am going to go through this info. See my feedback in red bold.


Hey MissSkittles! Thank you for all the information.

I went in today and turned his basking bulb down, its on a dimmer ,and I check the temperature daily. I had been maintaining it between 85-87. After turning it down, I checked on him a little later and he was basking. I am wondering if I have been keeping that spot too hot for him and he retreated, but why retreat to the background and not any other spot on in the cage? I am wondering if he was basking under the LED instead. Also, it was later in the evening, a short time before his lights go off, he will come off the background and settle somewhere in the cage for sleep. He is very young temps should be max 82 at basking. They will move away from basking if it is running too hot. So if you have a probe on the branch and that is reading 85-87 then where he rises up off the branch it is even hotter. Also you have him in a full glass enclosure this is going to make it more difficult for him to get away from the heat because the glass is going to hold the temps and the humidity. I would suggest putting a pc fan on the top screen in that back left corner to pull air up and out of the enclosure so that your cage is not sitting stagnant. Increases RI risk because there is limited air movement. This is where a pc fan will help.

He ate well again today, 8-9 crickets and a couple hornworms. I am worried about his hydration since I am not fogging and I plan on getting that setup. I have the fogger, I need distilled water and I needed to see if I could set it up on a timer. I have been checking his urates and fecal matter, both look normal. So you want to be feeding a cham this young around 2 dozen small to medium insects a day. They need the food intake to support the growth. You can simply add a dripper to the top of the cage to add another hydration method. Plastic solo cup with a few pin holes in the bottom then add ice cubes to it. Set it on the screen top away from lighting and above plant leaves so it drips on them. NOTE on a fogger... You have to have very cool temps below 67 at night and your air has to cycle if it does not it will be stagnant warm wet air and that further complicates for an RI>

I can adjust the basking vine and branch to be a smidge lower, I created a network of branches using manzanita but he seems to favor the vine. I did check the vents and they are not obstructed by the substrate.

He also looks like he is going into shed!! Poor guy. I am going to get a fan to bring the humidity down during the day. I double checked it today and it was at 47% during the day. I also have the Repashy super cal and the no LOD. I will be dusting twice a month with the D3. Please post pics of your supplements so we know exactly what you are using. Your names for them are not quite right so I want to be sure. Glass will make it harder to pull humidity down for daytime. You can shorten a morning misting session to help keep the levels lower until later in the day. Kick the basking off about 3-4 hours before UVB kicks off so temps reduce then do a longer misting about 2 hours prior to UVB turning off.

I am happy his appetite is not waning, I know when that goes, they are in the pits. I have considered a hybrid enclosure since I feel like full screen would obviously need some modifications in my home. I am also in southern California and eventually I would like to build some large outdoor enclosures and keep them outside. Glass is one of the hardest to control overall for chams especially when you are newer to the hobby. I recommend hybrid for most people. Unless you have a high natural ambient humidity. These can make it harder to control levels but there are ways to utilize hybrid with high humidity. It just almost always means buying a room dehumidifier.

I will continue his antibiotics, tomorrow he's up for another dose and I appreciate your video! Thanks for the vet list, I actually reached out to the veterinarian on the list for my area but they were so expensive just for the exam, I took him to another I had found. After his RI clears up, I will definitely take him to the recommended doctor. exotic vets that are good tend to be more expensive. Depending on where you live in Cali there are some very very good vets there that know chameleon health.

 

[cla2806]

Hey there I am going to go through this info. See my feedback in red bold.


Hey MissSkittles! Thank you for all the information.

I went in today and turned his basking bulb down, its on a dimmer ,and I check the temperature daily. I had been maintaining it between 85-87. After turning it down, I checked on him a little later and he was basking. I am wondering if I have been keeping that spot too hot for him and he retreated, but why retreat to the background and not any other spot on in the cage? I am wondering if he was basking under the LED instead. Also, it was later in the evening, a short time before his lights go off, he will come off the background and settle somewhere in the cage for sleep. He is very young temps should be max 82 at basking. They will move away from basking if it is running too hot. So if you have a probe on the branch and that is reading 85-87 then where he rises up off the branch it is even hotter. Also you have him in a full glass enclosure this is going to make it more difficult for him to get away from the heat because the glass is going to hold the temps and the humidity. I would suggest putting a pc fan on the top screen in that back left corner to pull air up and out of the enclosure so that your cage is not sitting stagnant. Increases RI risk because there is limited air movement. This is where a pc fan will help.

He ate well again today, 8-9 crickets and a couple hornworms. I am worried about his hydration since I am not fogging and I plan on getting that setup. I have the fogger, I need distilled water and I needed to see if I could set it up on a timer. I have been checking his urates and fecal matter, both look normal. So you want to be feeding a cham this young around 2 dozen small to medium insects a day. They need the food intake to support the growth. You can simply add a dripper to the top of the cage to add another hydration method. Plastic solo cup with a few pin holes in the bottom then add ice cubes to it. Set it on the screen top away from lighting and above plant leaves so it drips on them. NOTE on a fogger... You have to have very cool temps below 67 at night and your air has to cycle if it does not it will be stagnant warm wet air and that further complicates for an RI>

I can adjust the basking vine and branch to be a smidge lower, I created a network of branches using manzanita but he seems to favor the vine. I did check the vents and they are not obstructed by the substrate.

He also looks like he is going into shed!! Poor guy. I am going to get a fan to bring the humidity down during the day. I double checked it today and it was at 47% during the day. I also have the Repashy super cal and the no LOD. I will be dusting twice a month with the D3. Please post pics of your supplements so we know exactly what you are using. Your names for them are not quite right so I want to be sure. Glass will make it harder to pull humidity down for daytime. You can shorten a morning misting session to help keep the levels lower until later in the day. Kick the basking off about 3-4 hours before UVB kicks off so temps reduce then do a longer misting about 2 hours prior to UVB turning off.

I am happy his appetite is not waning, I know when that goes, they are in the pits. I have considered a hybrid enclosure since I feel like full screen would obviously need some modifications in my home. I am also in southern California and eventually I would like to build some large outdoor enclosures and keep them outside. Glass is one of the hardest to control overall for chams especially when you are newer to the hobby. I recommend hybrid for most people. Unless you have a high natural ambient humidity. These can make it harder to control levels but there are ways to utilize hybrid with high humidity. It just almost always means buying a room dehumidifier.

I will continue his antibiotics, tomorrow he's up for another dose and I appreciate your video! Thanks for the vet list, I actually reached out to the veterinarian on the list for my area but they were so expensive just for the exam, I took him to another I had found. After his RI clears up, I will definitely take him to the recommended doctor. exotic vets that are good tend to be more expensive. Depending on where you live in Cali there are some very very good vets there that know chameleon health.

Hello!

Thank you for all the feedback. As far as a hybrid enclosure, which brands do you recommend?

I saw a t-Rex brand 36x18x36 that had more screen at Petco, or should I get a 2x2x4 and modify it with material on 3 sides, leaving the front door screen?

 

[MissSkittles]

Hello!

Thank you for all the feedback. As far as a hybrid enclosure, which brands do you recommend?

I saw a t-Rex brand 36x18x36 that had more screen at Petco, or should I get a 2x2x4 and modify it with material on 3 sides, leaving the front door screen?

The minimum size is 2x2x4’. These are fantastic, if in your budget. https://dragonstrand.com/ Or you can take advantage of some of the sales on ReptiBreeze XL and modify it to your needs. I saw one last week at PetSmart online that after sale price & added discount was under $70.