PabloTheCham
Chameleon Enthusiast
I want another pet, but I don't want another enclosure. Is there anything that can live with the cham but without stressing it out or having the cham eat it? Would a green anole die to the cham?
Roommate for Cham?
- Thread starter PabloTheCham
- Start date
The easy answer to your question is that there really isn't a good cage mate for a chameleon. You are concerned about the right things. If it is small it will be eaten (anoles are high on the list of being eaten). If it is too large to be eaten it will probably stress your chameleon.
The complicated answer is that in large enough enclosures where you can create different zones there are possibilities such as Uroplatus. But these co-habitation situations have to be carefully balanced and managed. It really is worth it to buy a new enclosure if you want to expand your collection.
PabloTheCham
Chameleon Enthusiast
can't flat tail geckos be eaten do to their small size? My cham is a juvenile so maybe it won't eat the anole because its big? I just want some other animal that can be with the cham, one that is preferable handle able. I know chams don't like to be handled, so i'm looking for something handleable.
Do you have an thing else in mind other then the flat tail gecko? I can't afford another setup.
@PabloTheCham you had the best possible answer in the post by DeremensisBlue..."The easy answer to your question is that there really isn't a good cage mate for a chameleon."
I would recommend saving your money and getting a new set up for the "room mate".
I would recommend saving your money and getting a new set up for the "room mate".
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Get some bins from Walmart and start some bug colonies.
Roaches will let you hold them kind of. They double as food for your chameleon. Get Halloween Hissers, they are pretty docile with being held.
They are not roommates for your Cham, but your Cham does not need or want a roommate.
Roaches will let you hold them kind of. They double as food for your chameleon. Get Halloween Hissers, they are pretty docile with being held.
They are not roommates for your Cham, but your Cham does not need or want a roommate.
The Wild One
Chameleon Enthusiast
I’m pretty sure my Dubias like me more than Coda lol
CasqueAbove
Chameleon Enthusiast
I have done multi animals enclosures before(Not Chams), and for me the secret was always been to set up the environment as such. If you wanted to add a second animal you would end up needing a larger cage anyway.
I too have been looking into this, and so far the only viable option has been nocturnal geckos like the leaf tails. But you would need to double the size of your enclosure. Chams(Panther/Veiled) are hard because they use all the zones, are big enough and willing enough to eat smaller animals, and are easily stressed(like frogs landing on them at night). I have mostly had success combining snakes and frogs, correct species of course, not just any. I also stick with animals that would exist together in their biotopes. Like terrestrial boas(more inclined too warm blooded prey) snakes with tree frogs. I have seen the panthers and Leaf tails kept together, but these enclosures were on the order of 4x3x6
I too have been looking into this, and so far the only viable option has been nocturnal geckos like the leaf tails. But you would need to double the size of your enclosure. Chams(Panther/Veiled) are hard because they use all the zones, are big enough and willing enough to eat smaller animals, and are easily stressed(like frogs landing on them at night). I have mostly had success combining snakes and frogs, correct species of course, not just any. I also stick with animals that would exist together in their biotopes. Like terrestrial boas(more inclined too warm blooded prey) snakes with tree frogs. I have seen the panthers and Leaf tails kept together, but these enclosures were on the order of 4x3x6
CasqueAbove
Chameleon Enthusiast
JEEZ those geckos are expensive.
400 dollars for a WC satanic? 900 for a WC Giant?
Ouch!! I had never looked, these are just what I have seen kept with panthers in some zoos and reptile parks. I just looked them up and wow. You could drop over 1k easy. Didn't realize that.
Another option I have been looking at is house geckos. They are small and cheap like anoles, but nocturnal so likely won't conflict too much in space.
There is a possibility of them getting eaten, but if your cham is well fed, and particularly if you cup feed, it is likely it would not be seen as a food item. There is always a chance though. But do not feel too terrible as these are sold as snake food. The biggest draw back is they may not be much fun. You can't hold them and will only ever see them if you are looking for them at night.
If you go this route you will definitely wan't to quarantine, as theses are "feeders" they may not be raised with the best care. plastic tub with holes will work for long enough to quarantine. The do not need uv as they are nocturnal.
400 dollars for a WC satanic? 900 for a WC Giant?
Ouch!! I had never looked, these are just what I have seen kept with panthers in some zoos and reptile parks. I just looked them up and wow. You could drop over 1k easy. Didn't realize that.
Another option I have been looking at is house geckos. They are small and cheap like anoles, but nocturnal so likely won't conflict too much in space.
There is a possibility of them getting eaten, but if your cham is well fed, and particularly if you cup feed, it is likely it would not be seen as a food item. There is always a chance though. But do not feel too terrible as these are sold as snake food. The biggest draw back is they may not be much fun. You can't hold them and will only ever see them if you are looking for them at night.
If you go this route you will definitely wan't to quarantine, as theses are "feeders" they may not be raised with the best care. plastic tub with holes will work for long enough to quarantine. The do not need uv as they are nocturnal.
PabloTheCham
Chameleon Enthusiast
I know my cham doesn't WANT one, but in the wild there are probably other creatures in their vicinity that don't stress them out. maybe something nocturnal my cham won't even notice? A nocturnal lizard would probably not even be noticed by the cham, since they sleep at night?
The Wild One
Chameleon Enthusiast
Your Cham would probably think it’s a bug and shoot at it. And all animals bigger than the Cham are considered Predators to them. So no, no roommate.
PabloTheCham
Chameleon Enthusiast
Like I said, a nocturnal species? Would my cham notice it since the lizard is only active at night, when rhe cham sleeps?
The Wild One
Chameleon Enthusiast
Just like some chams notice dubias when they aren't moving,
In the wild one lizard can move away from the other one...in a cage there's limited room to run to...not nearly enough.
Do you think that the nocturnal one won't walk over the chameleon during the night and maybe startle it and get bitten? Do you think the chameleon won't do the same to the nocturnal one during the day?
One might decide the other is food or a predator even if their sizes are similar. Stressful at the least.
One might have natural bacteria that the other can't handle and one will get sick.
You're going to have to figure out the feeding so one doesn't eat all the other ones food.
You need to make sure they can both live in the same environment...temperatures, lighting, humidity, etc.
With al that's been said, I think you should just wait to get another cage. Look for one second hand maybe.
Do you think that the nocturnal one won't walk over the chameleon during the night and maybe startle it and get bitten? Do you think the chameleon won't do the same to the nocturnal one during the day?
One might decide the other is food or a predator even if their sizes are similar. Stressful at the least.
One might have natural bacteria that the other can't handle and one will get sick.
You're going to have to figure out the feeding so one doesn't eat all the other ones food.
You need to make sure they can both live in the same environment...temperatures, lighting, humidity, etc.
With al that's been said, I think you should just wait to get another cage. Look for one second hand maybe.
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
You know, I have been doing some thinking/research on this, as it sort of has always intrested me as well, ONLY in my Biome, which is 4x2x4, much larger than a standard chameleon Viv.
However, I think the only really safe option, would be Frogs. You would need a Bio Cage, and it will need to be well setup and even then there is risks. I know you have a panther, and Mantellas share a habitat with some panther locales. The bottom of a Bioactive Viv would suit them perfectly, and a they may be a tad too big for the cham to eat.
Its still risky however.
Tomato Frog also shares a habitat, and is 3-5 inches. They do excrete some white substance that causes issue with people, not sure if that could pose an issue.
There again, you want an animal you can handle, these wont be that. So maybe this doesnt help, but you seem set on this course, so I figured id add the option.
I know @snitz427 was thinking of adding some mantellas, did you ever?
However, I think the only really safe option, would be Frogs. You would need a Bio Cage, and it will need to be well setup and even then there is risks. I know you have a panther, and Mantellas share a habitat with some panther locales. The bottom of a Bioactive Viv would suit them perfectly, and a they may be a tad too big for the cham to eat.
Its still risky however.
Tomato Frog also shares a habitat, and is 3-5 inches. They do excrete some white substance that causes issue with people, not sure if that could pose an issue.
There again, you want an animal you can handle, these wont be that. So maybe this doesnt help, but you seem set on this course, so I figured id add the option.
I know @snitz427 was thinking of adding some mantellas, did you ever?
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
snitz427
Chameleon Enthusiast
I did not. Not because I dont think they’d succeed, but because I’ve been tearing down and rebuilding cages, and it just seems like another variable to balance.
The only reason i considered them, for Walter’s cage specifically, is because Walt has a tongue issue and is not at all adventurous for food. I dont think he would hunt them, and if he did, I dont think he could catch them because he needs to get so close. Any of my other chams would def try to eat them, even in the larger cages. That is especially true for the veileds, who actively hunt isopods and know how to find them!
snitz427
Chameleon Enthusiast
Less than that. I think the largest is just over an inch. And they are very shy.
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes.
Tomatos are large. 4-5 inches, definitely could not be eaten. Stay ground level for the most part afaik, are found in panther Habitat.
BUT!
The white secretion when scared, is troublesome. I'm not sure what effect it would have on a Cham, if they were to interact. Or if the Cham would try and eat the frog, (couldn't, but try?)
I don't know if the Cham would even try and bother it though. As they are toads, large and round, they are 4-5 inches long, and 3-4 inches wide. They also swell up like a cham to make them selves look bigger when threatened.
Males are just over an inch. Some Females do get up to 1.5 - 1.75 inches.
Depends on the specific one as well. Mantella is Malagasy version of Posion Dart Frogs. There is many species of Mantella. Some are smaller, some are bigger. None over 1.5 inch average though.
I guess what we should look at is if this happens in the wild.
Do Panthers or Parsons, or whatever eat Mantellas in the wild. They are found in the same areas. Do they eat them in wild, if they do it's likely not a good idea. If they dont, then maybe it could work.
In the wild, if they did eat them, it would surely be a last meal. Mantellas are same as PDFs. They eat fire ants, excrete the toxin. Would kill the Cham. In captivity they are not toxic, but would the Cham even try? Or would the bright colors be a natural warning sign as it's meant to be.
I know someone in the thread where you were talking about this said he kept Tincs with his panther, without issue.
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