Rubber mat as substrate? repti-carpet? Any attractive other options besides paper towels or bare?

[Franquixote]

From what I am reading, most prefer no substrate at all or paper towels. With no substrate, if using glass it can be disinfected, but if wood you are eventually going to have pathogens. Paper towels are practical but aesthetically awful.
It seems like a "bio-active" substrate covered with pebbles might work to avoid accidental ingestion of the substrate but is an invitation for pathogens.
That leaves me with thinking a thick cardboard or poster board cut to fit might work, which would be replaced bi-weekly or monthly (black might be nice).
What about repti-carpet and having 2 or 3 pieces cut to fit the bottom so that you can sanitize one piece while using another?

Right now the bottom of the enclosure is painted wood with a piece of rubber on top. I could get another piece of rubber for the bottom or get some other option like linoleum that can be replaced while the first is disinfected.

I can't bear to think that we would go through all this work to have beautiful animals displayed on paper towels!

 

[Traildrifterphalanx]

I have a drain system that my enclosure sits on a wire shelf (meant for closets), with 2 sheets of rubber shelf liner with checkered holes to allow water to pass, above a large pan. I honestly really love the look of it, and I'm very into aesthetically pleasing enclosures and house setups. The pan/lid the water collects in is the only displeasing appearance of it.

It's like halfway down the page
https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...rst-chameleon-tips-appreciated.158458/page-51

 

[Franquixote]

Thanks- My setup is a large corner piece of furniture.
I have 2 large pieces of solid mahogany / teak with branching pedestals which I hope to anchor air plants to. I have a box planter along one back wall which I ordered a Madagascar Jasmine vine for, and a trellis on that back wall.
The other wall of the angled corner is just fake bamboo and plastic plants right now, to be replaced eventually with another planter perhaps.

I think that after seeing all about impaction and considering options, I am going to start with a couple pieces of rubber cut to size and just clean as necessary until they need a thorough disinfection at which point I will remove and replace until the first is disinfected.

I'll post pictures when I get a chance.

Anyone see an issue with using a rubber bottom like this? Seems to be a compromise between looks and practical sanitation.

 

[JacksJill]

I haven't tried what you are suggesting but I like the idea. I have even toyed with the idea of artificial grass. I know one person who uses outdoor carpet with some success. It is a pain to clean because to disinfect it you need a large tub. Usually they vacuum and spot clean it between serious cleanings.

 

[Davecameos]

Bioactive is the best way to go in my opinion. Nothig wrong with that if done properly.
Also the custodians will keep the plants happy and the viv clean.

 

[jamest0o0]

Where is this idea that bioactive introduces pathogens? Many people are extremely successful with it and ingesting soil is safe and even helpful. Bioactive is the way to go. These animals don't have bare floors in the wild.

100% with @Davecameos

 

[ReptilesRock]

I use repti carpet came in my chameleon kit and works fine

 

[jamest0o0]

That carpet will harbor lots of nasty stuff in no time.

 

[Franquixote]

Until I am confident everything else is in dialed in, I don't want to introduce bioactive substrate. Pathogens include fungi, mold, and mildew as well as bacteria on any organic surface.Of course, healthy animals have adapted to survive and even thrive to the point of requiring these microbes for proper digestion, but I'm a new keeper and it's one less thing I think I should begin with. But I would eventually like to do so.

Here is what I got:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gray-Anti-Fatigue-Mat-Common-4-ft-x-4-ft-Actual-49-21-in-x-49-21-in/3111467

They are nontoxic and one side is smooth. They come 4 to a pack and each one is 4' square.

 

[jamest0o0]

I respect that, you want to wait to jump into basically a whole other living thing with bioactive, but to clarify a few things:

-Fungi is eaten by custodians, never seen this as an issue. I personally love when shrooms pop up.
-bacteria is beneficial, it is the main component of bio-activity, it outcompetes the dangerous bacteria that builds up in sterile environments. This is how nature keeps the balance.
-springtails and isopods demolish and mold and mildew, I welcome mold because it means my springs will explode in numbers. I have yet to see any in my enclosures though. New tank syndrome will see it come and go fast

I relate bio-activity to live rock reef aquariums in how it works.

By no means trying to condescend or argue. I can tell you're an intelligent person, just wanted to clear up some things. Bioactive adds so much life to the enclosure and the animals act more natural ONE. It also makes cleaning easy!

Anyway good luck, if you don't go bio, I'd recommend just keeping a bare floor.

 

[Franquixote]

Totally hear you on all that- the mat is my idea of a "bare floor"- better than a wood bottom because it can be removed and disinfected, easily wiped clean, etc.
My secondary concern with bioactive is that this is a home made enclosure and while it seems to close pretty well on spring hinges, I may see some small places where very small critters can escape. I don't want springtails or isopods on the carpet and need to address the seal around the door if necessary- I just don't know if it's going to be an issue yet. I also have 2 little ones, 4 and 8, and my girls have grown up around buckets of black worms and tanks, but I definitely need a few months of do's and don'ts with them before I'm confident that they aren't going to get any bioactive dirt on hands and into mouths- what may be fine to a chameleon may not be so good for a human.
Eventually, it's inevitable I'm going to use it but I just don't know enough right now and I'm overwhelmed. I only have the start of 1 feeder colony going- snails- and this stuff gets expensive fast.
How deep is your soil? Do you grow plants in it?

 

[jamest0o0]

Yeah I see where you're coming from. My substrate layer is about 15 inches on my juvenile cages and 2 feet for my large atrium's. I plant directly into it like a raised garden bed. Im a little overkill with bio though, it's become an obsession.

If you are able to see escape springtails or even isopods then you are a superhero! Lol they are very tiny and hard to spot even while looking. They stick to the soil, I've never seen one out and I even had bioactive free ranges lol.

I can't wait to get some snails btw lol. Do you have to clean them constantly?(Sorry off topic ADD)

 

[ReptilesRock]

Repti carpet. I got from my chameleon kit it is good u need to buy two though and that wont fit in the bottom of your tank ( of ur tank is as big as mine) so if u do get reptu carpet u have to cut it and use velcro to push it down so the worms and crickets and dubia (food) doesn't go underneath it. And if it gets dirty u jeust need to take off the velcro thats underneath it come off really easy and just hose spray it out back. Chameleons dont really use the bottom of there cage they just allways stay up top but it is nice to have good substrate. You can buy the velcro at Michaels arts and crafts store its about 18 dollars worth the money

 

[Franquixote]

the enclosure only has about 3-4" before the bottom of door- I need to just take a pic already (old school phone so I have to actually get a camera out).

As far as snails- I'm new to them. For the few days I have had them they are still coming out of dormancy. I'd offer to give you some but you can get 2 dozen delivered to your door for like $9 including shipping- use the Ebayer in Greece- they came in about a week.

 

[Franquixote]

OK here is a terrible photo of what I am working with. Inside dimensions are about 48" X 36". The sides are tempered glass and back is a foam type background designed for aquariums/terrariums. There is only about 2" of space at the bottom. The planter in the back is going to be moved down to ground level and I have a Madagascar jasmine vine that I am going to pot in it. I need to seal the non-glass sides with either silicon or caulk- right now it's pretty flush and good, but there might be some tiny spaces somewhere around the borders I can't see.
The lighting is from our sponsor Lightyourreptiles, a twin Arcadia 12% w/ second bulb being daylight. The spot light is the LED that they sell. I have a basking light that I have not put on it yet.
The wooden platforms are solid mahogany or teak. I am planning on attaching a feeding bowl to one of them using two metal pins- this idea was stolen from a video posted to Youtube:
- probably one of our members, and want to give credit of course.

 

[Franquixote]

another view of this great idea for a feeding cup/bowl

 

[Franquixote]

Sorry if the above posts came out wacky.
Basically the bowl has 2 pins that fit into holes drilled into the wood.

So now you see what I am working with, I don't think I can do a substrate more than 1" or so deep which limits the ability to make it a bioactive substrate, right?

 

[Classy]

Where is this idea that bioactive introduces pathogens? Many people are extremely successful with it and ingesting soil is safe and even helpful. Bioactive is the way to go. These animals don't have bare floors in the wild.

100% with @Davecameos

Bioavtive substrate is spectacular. I'm currently using it in my enclosure, covered with large leaves. My plants love it, and it looks very nice.

 

[Franquixote]

You can see now that my enclosure only has about an inch or 2 to work with- I assume that's not even close to sufficient?
I'm familiar with the benefits of a self-sustaining system because in my aquariums I use daphnia in the substrate to accomplish the same thing, but I don't think I have enough depth to work with.

 

[Monta]

From what I am reading, most prefer no substrate at all or paper towels. With no substrate, if using glass it can be disinfected, but if wood you are eventually going to have pathogens. Paper towels are practical but aesthetically awful.
It seems like a "bio-active" substrate covered with pebbles might work to avoid accidental ingestion of the substrate but is an invitation for pathogens.
That leaves me with thinking a thick cardboard or poster board cut to fit might work, which would be replaced bi-weekly or monthly (black might be nice).
What about repti-carpet and having 2 or 3 pieces cut to fit the bottom so that you can sanitize one piece while using another?

Right now the bottom of the enclosure is painted wood with a piece of rubber on top. I could get another piece of rubber for the bottom or get some other option like linoleum that can be replaced while the first is disinfected.

I can't bear to think that we would go through all this work to have beautiful animals displayed on paper towels!

I bought one of those trays made for cage bottoms. My husband also got me one of those bucket head wet and dry head for a 5 gallons utility bucket. It sucks up the water in seconds.i than take paper towels and use cleaning vinegar to sanatize. I also uses vinegar to wipe off the Pothos leaves, he like to munch on them.