HolyToledo
New Member
I totally disagree! You are definitely the GO-TO for everything food and nutrition. As well as your other experience. We would be lost without you!
Safe Cleaners (not sure if this is Enclosures and Supplies or Health Clinic topic?)
- Thread starter camaleonte82
- Start date
I totally disagree! You are definitely the GO-TO for everything food and nutrition. As well as your other experience. We would be lost without you!
camaleonte82
New Member
agreed! i already have a shopping list because of her blogs!
xanthoman
Avid Member
clarification, bleach, not the best againt coccidia.
very true, most disinfectants have some pathogenic organism that are they are not that effective against, and most pathogens have some particular agent that they are particularly susceptible to. i will be the first to admit that bleach (meaning NaOCl sodium hypochlorite) is not the most effective agent to target coccidia/cryptosporidium or other encapsulated protozoa.
coccidia/cryptopsporidia are encapsulated protozoa. encapsulated protozoa are very resistant to chlorination. meaning that bleach (in this case NaOCl sodium hypochlorite) is not the best choice for targeting coccidia/cryptosporidia, even in industrial concentrations.
my impression of the ops question was not what was the best agent to target coccidia, but what was the best general cleaner.
imo, bleach is a poor choice for use as a standing water disinfectant, because as i stated earlier, bleach begins to revert to its mostly saltwater form, shortly after being oxidized. oxidation will begin as soon as the bleach is agitated or poured into another container. meaning its time as a disinfectant (one that is admittedly a poor choice against coccidia anyway) is limited. within a matter of hrs, it has lost most of its disinfecting properties, so imo a poor choice for a standing water application, especially if the target is coccidia/cryptosporidia.
coccidia/cryptosporidia, and other encapsulated protozoa, are susceptible to household ammonia, if you are specifically targeting coccidia/crptosporidia, i would use a 12-15% solution of household ammonia (meaning h20/ NH3 ammonium hydroxide). and rinse well !
DISCLAIMER; NEVER MIX/USE HOUSEHOLD AMMONIA (NH3 AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE), WITH BLEACH (NaOCl sodium hypochlorite) OF ANY CONCENTRATION.
never use ammonia on any cage recently (unrinsed still wet) cleaned with bleach, and never use bleach on any cage recently (unrinsed still wet) cleaned with ammonia.
when bleach is mixed with ammonia it forms hydrochloric acid (bad), which releases chlorine gas (worse), which is then converted to chloramine (beyond worse,=nuked/problematic).
not good is a severe understatement.
lol. jmo.
very true, most disinfectants have some pathogenic organism that are they are not that effective against, and most pathogens have some particular agent that they are particularly susceptible to. i will be the first to admit that bleach (meaning NaOCl sodium hypochlorite) is not the most effective agent to target coccidia/cryptosporidium or other encapsulated protozoa.
coccidia/cryptopsporidia are encapsulated protozoa. encapsulated protozoa are very resistant to chlorination. meaning that bleach (in this case NaOCl sodium hypochlorite) is not the best choice for targeting coccidia/cryptosporidia, even in industrial concentrations.
my impression of the ops question was not what was the best agent to target coccidia, but what was the best general cleaner.
imo, bleach is a poor choice for use as a standing water disinfectant, because as i stated earlier, bleach begins to revert to its mostly saltwater form, shortly after being oxidized. oxidation will begin as soon as the bleach is agitated or poured into another container. meaning its time as a disinfectant (one that is admittedly a poor choice against coccidia anyway) is limited. within a matter of hrs, it has lost most of its disinfecting properties, so imo a poor choice for a standing water application, especially if the target is coccidia/cryptosporidia.
coccidia/cryptosporidia, and other encapsulated protozoa, are susceptible to household ammonia, if you are specifically targeting coccidia/crptosporidia, i would use a 12-15% solution of household ammonia (meaning h20/ NH3 ammonium hydroxide). and rinse well !
DISCLAIMER; NEVER MIX/USE HOUSEHOLD AMMONIA (NH3 AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE), WITH BLEACH (NaOCl sodium hypochlorite) OF ANY CONCENTRATION.
never use ammonia on any cage recently (unrinsed still wet) cleaned with bleach, and never use bleach on any cage recently (unrinsed still wet) cleaned with ammonia.
when bleach is mixed with ammonia it forms hydrochloric acid (bad), which releases chlorine gas (worse), which is then converted to chloramine (beyond worse,=nuked/problematic).
not good is a severe understatement.
lol. jmo.
Last edited:
DanSB
Avid Member
OF ANY CONCENTRATION.
never use ammonia on any cage recently (unrinsed still wet) cleaned with bleach, and never use bleach on any cage recently (unrinsed still wet) cleaned with ammonia.
when bleach is mixed with ammonia it forms hydrochloric acid (bad), which releases chlorine gas (worse), which is then converted to chloramine (beyond worse,=nuked/problematic).
not good is a severe understatement.
finally a chemist!
Will hydrohloric acid, chlorine gas, and chlroramine kill encapsulated protozoa?
I had a guy at a service station I worked at during college tell me the only way to clean the bathrooms was with lysol and bleach combinations. I came unhinged and yelled at him for even thinking about doing that. If you need to use multiple types I would say wait at least 24 hours and use the bleach first because it goes away faster than the ammonia.
My wife and I always argue about whether ammonia or Chlorine make a better cleaner. From the sounds of it I just lost
!Using ammonia to clean reptile enclosures: Does it leave any film if you buy plain ammonia (Not Lysol) and is there any additional precautions beyond what you would use with bleach based cleaners?
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes, amonia works well in many situations
I believe Steam is the safest cleaner, and quite effective.
I believe Steam is the safest cleaner, and quite effective.
DanSB
Avid Member
I love the idea of steam. Any suggestions on steamers or methods?
xanthoman
Avid Member
aqueous ammonia can leave a crusty white residue if not thoroughly rinsed before it dries. i consider rinsing an important step in any full cage cleaning regardless of product used.finally a chemist! LOL ! no more of a chemist than you, we both know enough not to mix chlorine and aqueous ammonia, that doesnt make either one of us a chemist.
Will hydrohloric acid, chlorine gas, and chlroramine kill encapsulated protozoa? probably, but its also capable of killing you.
I had a guy at a service station I worked at during college tell me the only way to clean the bathrooms was with lysol and bleach combinations. I came unhinged and yelled at him for even thinking about doing that. If you need to use multiple types I would say wait at least 24 hours and use the bleach first because it goes away faster than the ammonia.
My wife and I always argue about whether ammonia or Chlorine make a better cleaner. From the sounds of it I just lost
Using ammonia to clean reptile enclosures: Does it leave any film if you buy plain ammonia (Not Lysol) and is there any additional precautions beyond what you would use with bleach based cleaners?
if we are talking about just doing a floor of a cage, imo, you are probably ok with just a good post cleaning wipe down using a damp rag with a couple of drops of liquid dish soap which imo, doesnt need to be rinsed if well wiped up. most liquid dish soap these days contains triclosan an anti-bacterial. imo triclosan is relatively benign in those qtys
imo, steam is a great alternative for those that arent comfortable with chemicals. imo, the biggest issues with steam are keeping track of where you just cleaned, and maintaining sufficient temp in the work area around the nozzle for a long enough period of time. imo, just having 200* at the nozzle, does not in itself guaranty pasteurization.
there have actually been a # of steam cleaning threads over the years. i dont recall any recently but you might try the archives if you cant find them. i do remember that most of them seem to favor this cleaner;
http://www.amazon.com/McCulloch-MC-1275-Heavy-Duty-Steam-Cleaner/dp/B0000DF0RB
most of what you will ever need to know about aqueous ammonia
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/TP.asp?id=11&tid=2
jmo
Last edited:
RealIzeRecognIze
New Member
I've been using healthy habitat cleaner. Its natural and smells great I'm not sure if its a true cleaner for disinfecting I know it deoderizes. Anybody else use this or other products by them?
Seeco
Avid Member
Fire is the only way to be certain...
Just kidding... but what I mean is just get a blow torch and....
Just kidding again. What I really mean is sometimes the cost and time and worry and exposure to chemicals is not worth it.
These days when I look at a cage like "ewww" it goes directly in the trash.
Just kidding... but what I mean is just get a blow torch and....
Just kidding again. What I really mean is sometimes the cost and time and worry and exposure to chemicals is not worth it.
These days when I look at a cage like "ewww" it goes directly in the trash.
RealIzeRecognIze
New Member
Hahhaha you had me goin for a min. Well that's why I wanna maintain it so its not ewwwgh lol
DanSB
Avid Member
aqueous ammonia can leave a crusty white residue if not thoroughly rinsed before it dries. i consider rinsing an important step in any full cage cleaning regardless of product used.
if we are talking about just doing a floor of a cage, imo, you are probably ok with just a good post cleaning wipe down using a damp rag with a couple of drops of liquid dish soap which imo, doesnt need to be rinsed if well wiped up. most liquid dish soap these days contains triclosan an anti-bacterial. imo triclosan is relatively benign in those qtys
imo, steam is a great alternative for those that arent comfortable with chemicals. imo, the biggest issues with steam are keeping track of where you just cleaned, and maintaining sufficient temp in the work area around the nozzle for a long enough period of time. imo, just having 200* at the nozzle, does not in itself guaranty pasteurization.
there have actually been a # of steam cleaning threads over the years. i dont recall any recently but you might try the archives if you cant find them. i do remember that most of them seem to favor this cleaner;
http://www.amazon.com/McCulloch-MC-1275-Heavy-Duty-Steam-Cleaner/dp/B0000DF0RB
most of what you will ever need to know about aqueous ammonia
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/TP.asp?id=11&tid=2
I'm definitely going to pick up one of those steam cleaners now. I've been looking for awhile. I have a steam mop I really like but it is limited in what it can do. Drives me nuts my steam mop cost the same as one of those full purpose cleaners!
I generally use dish soap as my go to cleaner when I can't find any gloves. Bleach does a number on your hands and the smell takes a few days to come off and I just don't like ammonia based cleaners.
I do use white vinegar for some of my daughters stuff, it is actually what the doctors recommended as the safest for use with items coming into direct contact with small children.
It doesn't sound like you are kidding...
It sound's like we need surgical steel enclosures and mesh and a giant autoclave. That would be almost as good as fire.
reptilover
New Member
Chameleopatrick
New Member
Since no one has mentioned it, isopropyl alcohol is a fantastic disinfectant, kills bacterial and is safe on most plants too. I usually clean the entire cage with it and works cleaning my exoterra glass cages better than glass cleaner. Of course I always remove the chameleon while cleaning and let the enclosure air -out and dry before returning the resident to his home. The 99% stuff is the best.
I wouldn't recommend anything else.
I wouldn't recommend anything else.
BocaJan
New Member
I don't ever use soap because it leaves a film on things. I have on my list the accepted cleaner first mentioned in this thread. You definately do not want to leave any residue because our little friends are leaf lickers and will lick undetected soap film off leaves and even screen when they see glistening water droplets. You can rinse and rinse but you can still get left with a slight film.
I first remove all plants and vines from the cage. I then wash with the hose on my patio set on high to loosen all the debris. I have a brush I use to brush all the metal joints. I only use plastic plants so I can clean them well. I don't know how you would clean a real plant, plus I always think you can attract bugs, parasites, ants, etc. I have enough bugs in my house with the feeders.
Anyway, getting back to business. I have a hand held steamer. After the cage is dry from the wash and brushing I go over it with the steamer getting all the support pieces well. I feel that the joints are important. I have a table in the sun I then set it out in to let it dry.
As for the fake plants, I dump them out of the dirty water, wash them again, and again, going over each leaf checking them and making sure they are finally clean of all poop. I then take them into the house and put them into my washing machine in a zippered pillowcase. NO SOAP. I set on hot water and only a delicate cycle so I don't damage my plants and an easy spin. If I am paying attention I can take them out before it spins.
DONE! I do this ALWAYS before using the cage and plants for another cham. I don't break everything down if the same cham is going back in because I keep their cages clean. Most of my guys like to poop in one spot. If I am luck and they have choosen a leaf to poop on I cut the leaf off and throw it away and wait for them to choose another leaf.
I first remove all plants and vines from the cage. I then wash with the hose on my patio set on high to loosen all the debris. I have a brush I use to brush all the metal joints. I only use plastic plants so I can clean them well. I don't know how you would clean a real plant, plus I always think you can attract bugs, parasites, ants, etc. I have enough bugs in my house with the feeders.
Anyway, getting back to business. I have a hand held steamer. After the cage is dry from the wash and brushing I go over it with the steamer getting all the support pieces well. I feel that the joints are important. I have a table in the sun I then set it out in to let it dry.
As for the fake plants, I dump them out of the dirty water, wash them again, and again, going over each leaf checking them and making sure they are finally clean of all poop. I then take them into the house and put them into my washing machine in a zippered pillowcase. NO SOAP. I set on hot water and only a delicate cycle so I don't damage my plants and an easy spin. If I am paying attention I can take them out before it spins.
DONE! I do this ALWAYS before using the cage and plants for another cham. I don't break everything down if the same cham is going back in because I keep their cages clean. Most of my guys like to poop in one spot. If I am luck and they have choosen a leaf to poop on I cut the leaf off and throw it away and wait for them to choose another leaf.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
dont cheap out on an inexpensive steam cleaner - you will be dissappointed.
If you are trying to kill off parasites and such, You need a very hot steam and you need patience, holding the steam over cracks and crevices for long seconds, not just blasting it in brief waving motions.
Steam will damage plant leaves. If you have a major parasite issue, you may as well just get new plants.
so for basic cleaning, I use vinegar or whatever.
I occassionally steam the bottom surface and edges/cracks (I have wood cages). only about once a year (assuming none of the chams have a parasite or other illness to clean up after) do I "deep clean" removing everything and steaming the bee-jeazy out of it.
Last edited:
