Sambava or not? that is the question!

[reptimom]

Okay guys! I purchased Sambatra as a red bar ambanja, but after posting pics of him, Some of you said he was a sambava. I was asked to post of sleeping picture of him, which I finally was able to get. Hope it is good enough to tell. I have also added some new pics showing his colors awake too! I will love him either way, but it would be nice to know for sure. Thanks!!!

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Yea, he is definitely Sambava, a good looking one at that.

-chris

 

[Vibrant Chameleons]

Yes, I still say a very good looking Sambava.

 

[FOREVER ENDEAVOR]

sambava for sure..

 

[Sporkthedork]

It's a red-bar ambilobe, it's lacking the "U" bar of the Sambava.

 

[Sporkthedork]

Yea, he is definitely Sambava, a good looking one at that.

-chris

You have a nice sambava in the classifieds. It's also showing the distinctive "U" bar as well.

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Well thanks Spork. I appreciate it. Though this ones does not have the true "U" it does have something close. Most red bar ambilbobes tend to have more of a "V" bar, which this one does not...here is a pic of a WC sambava that has kind of a blurry "U" bar.

-chris

 

[Scott85]

I was gonna say sambava before the pic that chris just posted. The "U" bars look very similar. So I vote sambava with the crowd. BTW he is gorgeous!

 

[dindy]

Kind of looks like my boy a bit, i would say red barred but im not an expert, thats what i thought my guy was but he looks kinda similar somtimes, i dont have a pic of him lookin exactly like that but he goes the same exact colours....the first pic is kinda close but the definition on the eyes and face get way more vivid like on your cham, the other pic is just showing the bars when hes happy, he also goes that dark greenish colour..what do u think? is mine a red barred?

 

[Jeweledchameleons]

[EDITED]
You can't trust the coloration alone...
in this case you'll have to rely upon the pattern as the genetics can be stronger.
Contrast the lateral line [/bars] of this animal

To this animal that has been shown as a legit sambava at different breeder shows around the country

or even this prized andtotally unrelated animal.

CLose up

While the former has a unbroken line connecting the bars on the animal above the shoulder.
The later two feature a broken line and a well formed "U" that is absent on the first image.
that is "free and clear" from any connection to the other bars on the animal.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk or anything.
the colors are nice and if the personality is there he'll make a very nice pet.

The template criteria for all the locals is always being refined
and updated as we collectively grow in experience.

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

IMHO you cannot go by lateral line. Look at these images from reputable breeders, 1st the Kammers, 2nd Lost Lake

Both do not have the breaks in their lateral lines as you stated to be a trait of Sambava. Also, the one from lost lake is a CBB from Tyler Stewart's Sambava blood lines.

Jeweled I am not trying to be a jerk either, just if anyone is correct with a way to break down locales, I want to know so that I can have as firm knowledge as well. Just in this case I have seen a lot labeled Sambava that do have a continuous lateral line or I may have misunderstood what you were meaning by having a different lateral line.


-chris

 

[Jeweledchameleons]

Well a few things...
I don't think I was being clear with the post
what I intended to say is that the (red) bars along the lateral line do not meet.
as in the examples above and that could be used to help identify locality.

But in retrospect, that may be too extreme and ridged.
I've seen offspring from the two different lines (casanova and loki) direct from the breeders
above that have bars that meet and touch above the shoulder.

Either those respected breeders are crossing them with "dirty" females...
OR the definition has to be expanded from the one I gave earlier.
Perhaps there is some variance within the group local where the bars meet.

It's just another thing to work out..
Unless something earth shaking happens - it'll be OK to call it a sambava imo.

 

[Jamie]

Hummm..... here are some more Sambava's to ponder over...

First 2 are of the same animal...

.. and his father (not my chameleon- He belongs to Franco Gagliardi)

And this is grandson to Tyler's Loki

And his father...

 

[Chameleon Company]

Well, all IMMHO

Even if it looks 100% Sambava, no one can say with 100% certainty that it is. But this one would seem to be about 90% certain. That it is not an Ambanja of any type is also about 90% certain. It is also unlikey to be an Ambilobe, although not impossible either.

It's a red-bar ambilobe, it's lacking the "U" bar of the Sambava.

That Sambava's must have a "U" bar is a myth. That they seem to have a higher frrequency of them is true, but it is far from an absolute requirement. There are very few absolutes in panther coloration, just strong tendencies that apply majorities of the time. There will always be one that does not fit any of the norms.