Screen viv vs. Glass viv!?

[Titan]

Perfect! I must say that is the true way to set these up. And my opinion is that the glass front is usually up reasonably high and nonvisual to anything a Chameleon would try to reach out for. Leaving it a direction for the Cham to look out and feel as if it were perched in a bush and still checking out its more distant surroundings. Very Very Nice!

I do like Peters cork sides and back also combined with the glass enclosure.

 

[Carlton]

I've ended up with two basic cage types after all these years.

One that tends to be for my largest habitats is the screen cage with clear vinyl shower curtains hung on the back and/or sides. They are removable and adjustable. I have had chams who did stress out and paw at glass for hours. Either that or they were reacting to reflections of themselves. Changing the angle of light helped somewhat but I definitely had a few wc males who just couldn't deal with glass. The plastic sheeting didn't seem to be a problem especially as there was still a screen visual barrier present.

The second type is a smaller screen cage with toggles on the outside of the frame for "storm windows". Each side has a plexiglass or plastic panel cut to fit that can be added semi-permanently when conditions seem to call for it. The removable panels don't create an airtight enclosure which seems to help. I've kept chams in various houses in different parts of the USA. Sometimes I needed the panels to control humidity and sometimes I didn't. Sometimes one or two panels on the sides were enough. The nice thing is I can use the same cages in varying situations. Thinking back, I've only had one cham come down with a URI most likely due to poor air quality issues. I haven't kept nearly as many species as Chris of course and only a few animals at a time (much easier to keep track of everyone's conditions).

The whole "screen cage is a must" thing also comes up because we as a community are trying to discourage newbies from plunking their first cham into a glass terrarium that's completely unsuitable. What we should be saying to them isn't that screen is the absolute, but that chams are not the same as a small heat loving terrestrial lizard. The typical affordable fish tank is not a flexible enough environment and will doom the cham to health problems unless the keeper is really observant and careful to adjust conditions. That's the problem...they usually are not experienced enough to handle this. I still think a screen cage is a better recommendation for a newbie because it is larger, provides more microclimates, and can be modified more easily than that tank.

 

[kinyonga]

The list of chameleons I gave you in post #11 in this thread is the list of ones I kept in the glass cages with screen lids. Some of these cages have been quite big.

In the exo-terras I have kept veileds, pardalis, dwarf jackson's, brevs, comoros, fischer's, flaps, senegals, and more. The cages for most of them have been 24" high x 24" x18".

You asked me if I could post pictures....they are set up almost like Chris's except that I don't use substrate in them.

You said..."I´m a little bit confused of the mass of technical terms in this thread. Maybe I mean the same but I´m not able to write it in a correct English (sorry - it´s not my first language)"...don't apologize for your English! You speak more of it that I speak of your language! I'm sure if we keep talking we will get it all figured out!

 

[JaxyGirl]

I have to say..that this is a really great ans informative thread and I've really enjoyed reading it!!!

 

[ChameleonRave]

I have to say..that this is a really great ans informative thread and I've really enjoyed reading it!!!

Haha thanks me too! I just thought that it would be neat to hear peoples stories about there chams in glass terrariums and or screen ages and great input too

 

[Eszzie]

Howdy Zac,

This came out yesterday : http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulAndersonGlass.html

How cool that a picture of Steven Oosterhoff is used, that's a good friend of mine

Here in the Netherland people think chameleons can only be kept in glass terrariums, and I'm about one of the different thinking persons trying to confince people to use screen cages as well. So it's the other way around here.

 

[smackey]

Well I am glad to see that chameleon husbandry is just like modern medicine. 50% of everything people "knew" in the 80s is wrong and 50% of what we "know" now will be wrong in 20 years.

So the real moral of the story is don't attack people because they do something different than you when they have a good reason for it, because it might be correct but who is to know.

 

[Carlton]

Well I am glad to see that chameleon husbandry is just like modern medicine. 50% of everything people "knew" in the 80s is wrong and 50% of what we "know" now will be wrong in 20 years.

So the real moral of the story is don't attack people because they do something different than you when they have a good reason for it, because it might be correct but who is to know.

I doubt anyone wants to ""attack". Choose a better word. Rather, they are questioning to determine if the poster has a clue what they are doing. So many first posts start off with the same theme..."my cham is sick" followed by a description of poor husbandry or caging. Unless the poster tells us right up front where they are and what their climate is, how are we to know they aren't yet another newbie thinking a cham can live in a fish tank with a huge heat lamp and no UV?

 

[Peter Kraemer]

In the exo-terras I have kept veileds, pardalis, dwarf jackson's, brevs, comoros, fischer's, flaps, senegals, and more. The cages for most of them have been 24" high x 24" x18".

But for some of the animals only for young animals (pardalis, veileds)?
Correct?

...don't apologize for your English! You speak more of it that I speak of your language!

The normal English is not the big problem. If I don't remember or knew a word I will find it at a dictionary like dicct.cc.
The problem are technical terms which I don't know. If I search them in a dictionary often I find to much respond.

For example - if I look a simple word I have got this:
http://www.dict.cc/?s=baumarkt
Which is the correct word I´m looking for? On the right side you can see only one german word for all the english terms....

When I wrote this post....
https://www.chameleonforums.com/eve...chameleons-glass-31937/index7.html#post297519
... I used much technical terms which I looked up in the dictionary. But I´m not sure if they are correct and you (all) can understand what I want to say.

I'm sure if we keep talking we will get it all figured out!

Yes - I´m sure too.



To this topic - in the next days I will make some pictures of our cages to show what I like and prefer and what I dont like. I hope the pictures will help me to show what I want to say.

Peter

 

[Protean]

As a terrarium manufacturer, what would you as a community suggest? We usually manufacture our terrariums for chameleons with a 2" vent below the door and then a screen that covers 3/4 of the top. Does that seem sufficient/adequate to most of you? It doesn't add too much difference in manufacturing in our minds, but chime in please as we are setting up a line of terrariums now specific to chameleons.

Jason.P
Protean Terrarium Design
[email protected]
626-808-8500

 

[Klemins]

Jason,

I think your design with 2-3 inch vents would be sufficient for many enclosures, but would also depend on the size of the terrarium. For something larger, 40 inches tall for example, I think around 5-6 inches would be even better. Obviously you know what sizes you sell you most, so I assume you'd start with them and go from there. It's great that there is now somewhere to get nice glass terrariums for chameleons/reptiles. I will send/post some updated shots of mine once I get a little bit more plant growth. I haven't taken many recent ones since a couple plants have died and I've had to re-do them.

 

[mlw50]

As a terrarium manufacturer, what would you as a community suggest? We usually manufacture our terrariums for chameleons with a 2" vent below the door and then a screen that covers 3/4 of the top. Does that seem sufficient/adequate to most of you? It doesn't add too much difference in manufacturing in our minds, but chime in please as we are setting up a line of terrariums now specific to chameleons.

Jason.P
Protean Terrarium Design
[email protected]
626-808-8500

In regard to the 3/4 screen cover at the top, does that mean the other 1/4 is covered by glass? This limits where keepers can put the lighting elements. Also, IMHO it would be a good idea to include something to fasten the heat lamp to, many keepers do this anyways after purchase, so it would make things easier for some. I also agree with the comments above.

How would you deal with shipping such enclosures?

 

[Protean]

Shipping is easy. We over pack for breakage. For individual terrariums, we plan on 4-6" of packing material between cardboard and cage. And we use Greyhound for shipping individual units, they do not ship a lot of packages and do not damage the terrariums. For larger orders that require a pallet, we pack with a styrofoam lined outside with a plywood skin. hardly any breakage that method.

We will experiment with taller terrariums and 4" -6" vents on the front. The 3/4 vent on top allows for 1/4 of the top for sliding doors to be positioned correctly and for rigidity as well the possibility of drill holes for misting systems if needed.

 

[Klemins]

In regard to the 3/4 screen cover at the top, does that mean the other 1/4 is covered by glass? This limits where keepers can put the lighting elements. Also, IMHO it would be a good idea to include something to fasten the heat lamp to, many keepers do this anyways after purchase, so it would make things easier for some. I also agree with the comments above.

How would you deal with shipping such enclosures?

The glass strip really is no issue unless you're lighting units are huge. I have 16 inch wide enclosures that fit a double fluorescent fixture and a small incandescent fixture as well.

edit: This is how my palate looked once open and the plastic was removed. These came from CA to NJ and had no breakage.

1 cage removed

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."But for some of the animals only for young animals (pardalis, veileds)? Correct?"....no... I've kept adults in them too. I know the cages are not large, but it hasn't seemed to be a problem. A long time ago I remember someone experimenting with cages and he found that even keeping them in smaller cages that these the chameleons remained healthy and lived long lives...so some species adapt well.


I understand how, when one word gives many words to chose from when translated, it can be confusing. This is why more questions may have to be asked to make sure we all understand, of course.

 

[ChameleonRave]

You said..."But for some of the animals only for young animals (pardalis, veileds)? Correct?"....no... I've kept adults in them too. I know the cages are not large, but it hasn't seemed to be a problem. A long time ago I remember someone experimenting with cages and he found that even keeping them in smaller cages that these the chameleons remained healthy and lived long lives...so some species adapt well.


I understand how, when one word gives many words to chose from when translated, it can be confusing. This is why more questions may have to be asked to make sure we all understand, of course.

I currently have my 3 month old male Veiled Chameleon (Darwin) in an Exo Terra (small) Rainforest Kit. he loves it especially when I rearrange it! I would put him in a screen cage but hes soo small!

 

[Peter Kraemer]

We usually manufacture our terrariums for chameleons with a 2" vent below the door and then a screen that covers 3/4 of the top.

I have to agree with Dan - it depends on the size of the cage.
For smaller cages we ordered them with a 4 inch vent, larger cages with a 6 inch vent......

With "smaller" I mean a 24x24x40 and "larger" a 32x24x47.....

....no... I've kept adults in them too. I know the cages are not large, but it hasn't seemed to be a problem.

Really?!
For example we keep our chams in the following cages
- pardalis male in a 40x24x55 (100x60x140cm)
- pardalis female in a 32x24x55 (80x60x140cm)
(don´t tell this sizes in Germany - you will hear "this is much to small....!!!!")
- K.matschiei male in a 32x24x32 (80x60x80cm) - but if we can arrange our chameleon room he get´s a 32x24x47 (80x60x120cm) ......

In Canada you have the metric system too? Or both systems?
When I was last year in Toronto there are signs an the highways with kilometer measures.

A long time ago I remember someone experimenting with cages and he found that even keeping them in smaller cages that these the chameleons remained healthy and lived long lives...so some species adapt well.

This is interesting too - I cant believe this.....

I understand how, when one word gives many words to chose from when translated, it can be confusing. This is why more questions may have to be asked to make sure we all understand, of course.

Thats it!
And I´m really happy if I see a technical term in a post of other people.

Please feel free to ask if a word is not correct or usual.
And sometimes I mix German and English words or write a english word like the german accentuation......

 

[Protean]

Peter and Dan,

Thanks for the input. I'll use that info well.

-jason.p

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."In Canada you have the metric system too? Or both systems?
When I was last year in Toronto there are signs an the highways with kilometer measures"...its kind of a mess here...we use kilometers on the roads and liters in the gas pumps, milk containers, centigrade temperatures, etc....but canned goods, packages, meat, etc. is listed in both systems of measuring. They tried to convert it all at once to metric and then realized how difficult it was for those who grew up not using metric to manage. Those of us who are "old school" now can still use the old system...but the young people have learned metric...so in a few years when all us "old" people are dead and gone, the whole system will slip into metric automatically!

Regarding the small cages...I tried to locate the site it was posted on...but I can't find it right now.

I'll ask if there's something I don't understand...you should too!

 

[Chris Anderson]

Peter,

If you read "The Panther Chameleon" by Gary Ferguson, he says enclosures "as small as 45.7 X 30.5 X 30.5 cm (18 X 12 X 12 in) for a single adult male or 28 X 18 X 18 cm (11 X 7.1 X 7.1 in) for a single adult female or juvenile have proven satisfactory." Obviously I think that is much too small, but I can see an Exo-Terra working for certain adult Veiled or Panthers. Some individuals are more sedentary than others and wouldn't stress out in a smaller cage.

Chris