Sexing common chameleon

[Truespin]

Hi,

I am having a hard time figuring out the sex of two common (mediterian) chameleons. I have read that the Male is smaller then the female and that a bulge indicates a male.

I have put them inside the same cage a couple times and they start acting wierd. The small ones color changes light and dotted. The big ones colors are unchanged but starts bobbing head. They conected their tails for a short period but nothing more happened. One of the pictures included are of the small one in the same cage, courtship?

I think the large one is a older Female and the small one a 1-2 year old male. They probl didnt mate because the Female isnt ready yet. My guess, and ideas?

See picutures

Thanks!

 

[kinyonga]

I'm not sure from the photos since my tablet won't let me make them big enough to see well. Males have slight tail bulges and slightly higher casques and are slightly slimmer....females take on a polka dotted pattern when gravid...mating season is around this time of year...they produce one clutch a year and it takes about 240 days for them to hatch at about 74F.
This might help...it shows both males and females..,.
http://www.moroccoherps.com/en/ficha/Chamaeleo_chamaeleon/

 

[kinyonga]

You might be interested in this too...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chamaeleo-chamaeleon.66301/

 

[kinyonga]

What country are you in?

 

[Remkon]

Not an expert but II think I do see a bulge at the smaller one (pic3) and no bulge at the larger one (pic4).

Females will also make known when they're not ready to mate so likely you have a boy and a girl but she's just not ready to 'get jiggy with it'.

 

[Truespin]

Thanks for the information I am on varation in Portugal. If i do manage to get them to mate and the female (if female) lays eggs. How Schoultz i store the eggs? I have read that she will lay them in soil. Can the eggs be in the soil until They hatch if i keep the Temp at 74f? How exact must the temp be?

 

[kinyonga]

I've hatched common chameleon eggs. It's actually the first species of chameleon egg I hatched.
In the wild they would be in the soil but artificial incubation makes it hard to keep the moisture levels right....so we use vermiculite. How long will you be there?

Once the female is gravid you need to provide a place for her to dig to lay the eggs that she will have access to all the time. Failure to provide a site can lead to egg binding and death. It should be an opaque container a minimum of 12" deep x 12" x 8". Bigger is better though. I fill it with moist washed playsand. It should be just moist enough to hold a tunnel. If she reacts aggressively to the male you will have to separate them. It might be a good idea anyhow if you don't know a lot about chameleon behaviour.

The female should become restless, roam the cage, drink more, maybe eat less as the time to lay approaches. She may dig some test holes but should decide on one hole and dig it until she is satisfied with it. It may take several days or it may be fast. She will turn around bum down in the hole.This will often be at night. She will lay the eggs and fill the hole in and tamp it down and return to the branches hungry and thirsty. If this is not the way it goes and she starts sitting low in the cage with her eyes shut during the day or acts like she laid the eggs but didn't then let us know asap.

You should prepare an incubation container before this happens so it's ready. I use a shoe box sized Tupperware type container with a lid. Fill it about half full with coarse grained vermiculite that is slightly moist. To test the moisture level if you take a fist full of it you should only be able to squeeze a drop of two of water out of it. make dents with your thumb in the vermiculite in rows about 1" apart in all directions to set the eggs
In. Carefully dignthe eggs up trying not to rotate/turn them and place them in the incubation container. Put the lid on and place it somewhere dark where the temperature is about 74F. They will take about 250 days to hatch. The temperature can vary a little bit and it won't be a problem...it will just affect the number of days the eggs will take to hatch.

How will you keep the chameleons? Do you feed them wild caught I sects or captive bred? Do you know about the need for UVB light, supplements, proper insect care, appropriate temperatures?

 

[Truespin]

Wow great information! Thanks Kinyonga here in Portugal i keep them in seperate large birdcages with live pepper trees. I put the cages in direct sunlight atleast once for 45 min a day. They apricate this and puff up their body to obsorb the heat/UV. They are allways outside here. I feed them 5-10 grasshoppers every two days which I catch in the wild. This is a pain but havent found anyone who sells food nearby. I heavly moist the cages twice a day. They love the water. I .dont have any suplements and dont gutload.

I haven't yet dicided if I will bring them home to sweden. They seem to feel good since they are eating, drinking, pooing and leting us handle them but they will get very different lifes in sweden since they wont be able to get natural light, crickets and worms instead of their favorite grasshoppers. A option might be to bring only the eggs if there every will be some.

I just put them together again and the big one has much lighter colors today. They are not angry to each other, just observering. How long time does the mating processes take? Do they mate during the night?

I will be flying home to sweden in a couple weeks and thought I would buy suppliments, UV light for the eventuell car trip home and clean sand and vermiculite. Sweden has a lot of products for reptiles. Do I need to buy something to get rid of eventuell parasites?

If i decide to bring them to sweden I would very much like information about temperatures and UV-light and more

Is there a market for this kind of chameleon? I'm not interested in having a whole clutch for myself. I guess most people are interested in the more "cool" chameleons like Jackson and Panthers.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."Thanks Kinyonga here in Portugal i keep them in seperate large birdcages with live pepper trees. I put the cages in direct sunlight atleast once for 45 min a day. They apricate this and puff up their body to obsorb the heat/UV. They are allways outside here. I feed them 5-10 grasshoppers every two days which I catch in the wild. This is a pain but havent found anyone who sells food nearby. I heavly moist the cages twice a day. They love the water. I .dont have any suplements and dont gutload."...since they're fed wild caught insects and are outside a lot then you won't need to supplement for now.

You said..."I haven't yet dicided if I will bring them home to sweden. They seem to feel good since they are eating, drinking, pooing and leting us handle them but they will get very different lifes in sweden since they wont be able to get natural light, crickets and worms instead of their favorite grasshoppers"...you would have to supplement, etc then.

You said..."A option might be to bring only the eggs if there every will be some"...the female won't lay the eggs in the next two weeks I don't think...even if she was mated in the wild last year it's too soon to lay the eggs I think. I'm still not sure you have a pair.

You said..."I just put them together again and the big one has much lighter colors today. They are not angry to each other, just observering. How long time does the mating processes take? Do they mate during the night?"...males of this species don't fight as much as other species when together and females that are gravid tolerate the presence of a male more than most chameleon species too. I doubt that they mate at night.

You said..."I will be flying home to sweden in a couple weeks and thought I would buy suppliments, UV light for the eventuell car trip home and clean sand and vermiculite. Sweden has a lot of products for reptiles"...not surprised.

You said..."Do I need to buy something to get rid of eventuell parasites?" ....you need to know what parasite the chameleon has, if any in order to treat it. Different parasites need different treatments.

You said..."If i decide to bring them to sweden I would very much like information about temperatures and UV-light and more "...just ask!

You said..."Is there a market for this kind of chameleon? I'm not interested in having a whole clutch for myself. I guess most people are interested in the more "cool" chameleons like Jackson and Panther"...personally I would take a chamaeleons chamaeleon over a veiled or panther any day! I'm sure there would be a market. I live in Canada and I doubt we will see them here again for a long time to come.

 

[Truespin]

i am not sure Either that i have a male and female. Do these pictures help? First pic is the small one.

 

[leedragon]

Wild caught are illegal here in Sweden. And trade with chameleo chameleo is not allowed unless they are chipped and have cites papers proving that they are captived born and bred. I would not recommend you to smuggle those in but instead let them go where you found them so the population can keep growing.

 

[Truespin]

Thanks for the info leedragon! Where can i read more about this? The Common chameleon is listed on sites annex II and is therefore not allowed to be imported into Sweden without a permit according to "Jordbruksverket". They also write that with import they refer to a third party county outside the EU. The lizards are already in the EU and therefor there isnt any importing as I see it.

You are probebly right, just want yo read it for myself. You could be a swedish Common chameleon breeder who doesnt want competion for all i know

 

[leedragon]

just mail the jordbruksverket and ask them your questions. if you are allowed to have wild caught reptiles. if you can have a chameleon chameleon.
not really. my interest in chameleon is rather complex, not really competing with anyone nor selling anything to anyone really.
but wild caught animals where baned in the 60´s? here in sweden or something like that.

 

[kinyonga]

The small one is male...the other one is the one I'm wondering about...but the casque is high and there is a small bulge...I think.