zombiepixel
New Member
How long is a normal shed period? Trogdor has been shedding for days now. It's like the lower half of his torso isn't ready yet.
Shedding question
- Thread starter zombiepixel
- Start date
zombiepixel
New Member
Trogdor is almost 6mo old. This is about the 4th time he has shed.
CNorton
Avid Member
You are feeding your chameleon too much if he has shed total body on 4 separate occasions since July 6, 2009. This treatment will prove to be a detriment to the chameleon's health and development. Feed him5 or so 5/8inch or smaller crickets or equivalent per day. I hope this helps and here's a chart that comes in handy.
GooglezNvincent
New Member
Hey my vieled Lucky shed 3/18, 4/17, 5/23, 6/22, 7/21, and 8/24. I got him when he was 2-4 month range from a forum member (dondeb)
Hopefully that clear the time frame, usually his she tok less than one day. Some times if they are not moist enough the shed could take 1-3 (in some cases)
Keep in mind different people have different ways of husbandry, some feed more some feed less. I am in the belief that chams can eat to their hearts content and it is not an extreme detriment as some people say. The whole feeding/overfeeding topic is subjective so just learn as you go and have fun with it and be safe!
Hopefully that clear the time frame, usually his she tok less than one day. Some times if they are not moist enough the shed could take 1-3 (in some cases)
Keep in mind different people have different ways of husbandry, some feed more some feed less. I am in the belief that chams can eat to their hearts content and it is not an extreme detriment as some people say. The whole feeding/overfeeding topic is subjective so just learn as you go and have fun with it and be safe!
Jakedn
New Member
Hey my vieled Lucky shed 3/18, 4/17, 5/23, 6/22, 7/21, and 8/24. I got him when he was 2-4 month range from a forum member (dondeb)
Hopefully that clear the time frame, usually his she tok less than one day. Some times if they are not moist enough the shed could take 1-3 (in some cases)
Keep in mind different people have different ways of husbandry, some feed more some feed less. I am in the belief that chams can eat to their hearts content and it is not an extreme detriment as some people say. The whole feeding/overfeeding topic is subjective so just learn as you go and have fun with it and be safe!
Why do you believe that if you feed a chameleon as much as he will and can eat that it wont be detrimental to his health? Do you have first hand experience with this? Have you experimented with this, read documentation on this, or just come to the conclusion of this yourself, without proof, documentation, or experimentation? If you have documentation on this please direct me towards it. If you don't have first hand experience with this, and have not read factual, proven documentation on this, please do not preach what you can't back up.
It can and will be detrimental to the health of your chameleon in the long run if you consistently over-feed.
-Jake
GooglezNvincent
New Member
well i have talked to forum members, THIS FORUM, and they have straight up told me "i give my big males 25 crickets a day, some times more sometimes less, it vary's from what they want daily" I have heard that from numerous SENIOR members, and i am tlaking about folks who have been in the herp hobby for 10 years minimum. I have read probably about 10 books and oddly enough i have not found anything that says feeding them more than 10 crickets daily, what most people say you shouldn't do is bad for them. I feed my chams around 10-20 crickets every other day with random worms given whenever. I have had clutches from females and my males have decent fat deposits, but not overly fat. I have yet to see any negative outcome.
I dont get why people are so particular with chams and feeding, yet they will throw a half eatin t bone to their dog after its eating is kibble for the night. Chameleons can control their fat content, they do not eat themselves to death like a dog would.
Is that enough backup for me to say that i think every one should handle their chameleon as they see fit?
Regardless if you agree this was the whole point of me bringing it up, you dont have to. Because people treat their animals different than other people do. I just dont get why people feel the need to tell some one exactly how to take care of their animals/pets.
I dont get why people are so particular with chams and feeding, yet they will throw a half eatin t bone to their dog after its eating is kibble for the night. Chameleons can control their fat content, they do not eat themselves to death like a dog would.
Is that enough backup for me to say that i think every one should handle their chameleon as they see fit?
Regardless if you agree this was the whole point of me bringing it up, you dont have to. Because people treat their animals different than other people do. I just dont get why people feel the need to tell some one exactly how to take care of their animals/pets.
philanddeb818
Established Member
Nutritional Requirements
Food Amount - It is not neccessary to feed juvenile panther chameleons at ad libitum rates. However, juveniles fed at levels not promoting rapid growth languish and die. Full-sized adults of either sex will maintain their body mass and reproduce if fed about 30 to 50 half-grown crickets per week (about 7 to 12 grams[0.25 to 0.42 oz]). For juveniles the number is variable and depends on the size of the prey relative to that of the chameleon. We recommend weighing the juvenile every 2-3 weeks. After each chameleon mass is determined, accumulate appropriate-sized inscects into a weighed container until the insect mass is equivalent to 0.3 times the mass of the lizard. Count the number and feed that number 3 times a week for the next 2-3 weeks. Then repeat the process.
-The Panther Chameleon
Gary W. Ferguson
James B. Murphy
Jean-Baptiste Ramanamanjato
Achille P. Raselimanana
Food Amount - It is not neccessary to feed juvenile panther chameleons at ad libitum rates. However, juveniles fed at levels not promoting rapid growth languish and die. Full-sized adults of either sex will maintain their body mass and reproduce if fed about 30 to 50 half-grown crickets per week (about 7 to 12 grams[0.25 to 0.42 oz]). For juveniles the number is variable and depends on the size of the prey relative to that of the chameleon. We recommend weighing the juvenile every 2-3 weeks. After each chameleon mass is determined, accumulate appropriate-sized inscects into a weighed container until the insect mass is equivalent to 0.3 times the mass of the lizard. Count the number and feed that number 3 times a week for the next 2-3 weeks. Then repeat the process.
-The Panther Chameleon
Gary W. Ferguson
James B. Murphy
Jean-Baptiste Ramanamanjato
Achille P. Raselimanana
GooglezNvincent
New Member
Thank you for that, ill check that book out very soon, does it talk about any possible negative outcomes if fed too much? it did briefly say if not fed enough itll die, but thats obvious.
Jakedn
New Member
I am not telling anyone to take care of their pets in any certain way. I am just challenging you on your facts because I don't believe them to be true.
Feeding a growing chameleon excessive amounts of food can make them grow too fast and have underdeveloped bones.
Over-feeding a female chameleon will allow them to produce much larger clutches of eggs which can drastically lower their life span.
Why do you say a chameleon knows when to stop eating? Chameleons are opportunistic predators by nature and many will only stop when they can't fit anything else in their stomachs.
You also have not given me proven documentation proving me wrong. All you did was tell me that you overfeed your chameleons, some senior members told you it was okay, and that you didn't see anything telling you not to. Also, the title senior member does not mean anything to me, however the name of the senior member does. I will not just take somebodies word for something just because they have a title of senior member, but I will be more inclined to believe and trust the senior members judgement if their name is followed by reputation and personal success in chameleon keeping.
-Jake
GooglezNvincent
New Member
I am not going to "throw people under the bus" to prove my point. Funny enough i know for sure i can name 3 names that 90% of the forum knows.
I guess i am a glutton for punishment, most people just keep to themselves about husbandry (like the members i dont speak of) because they dont want to be hassled.
I just feel that people shouldnt tell others exactly how to care for their animal. I dont think i ever said once "You should over feed them" but i also have never said "You should not feed them as much as you do"
Again i believe to each his own and if a person feels that it is not harmful to the animal to feed them 25 crickets daily, AND they see no negative side effects i dont see a problem.
I guess i am a glutton for punishment, most people just keep to themselves about husbandry (like the members i dont speak of) because they dont want to be hassled.
I just feel that people shouldnt tell others exactly how to care for their animal. I dont think i ever said once "You should over feed them" but i also have never said "You should not feed them as much as you do"
Again i believe to each his own and if a person feels that it is not harmful to the animal to feed them 25 crickets daily, AND they see no negative side effects i dont see a problem.
philanddeb818
Established Member
Actually, I'm not sure if it's this book or one of the others we have that states that often a chameleon will eat as much as what is offered and once the body has used what it needs, the excrement will then contain undigested parts. Sort of like the cham eats for the joy of eating and the body just carries out the unused bits.
On the other hand a lot of the people on the forum seem to have posted a lot of concerns about their girls over-feeding and producing overly large clutches...
I do agree with your joy of husbandry. Sometimes it can feel as though there is judgement behind the helpful hints on forums.
Jakedn
New Member
The problem is that you won't see the problem until much later on.
Once again, I am not telling anyone how to care for their chameleons. I just want to see the facts on this and I would love if you could show me them.
GooglezNvincent
New Member
How much later on? I mean these members i talk to have had probably hundreds of chams stay in their care the whole chams life, and they saw nothing out of the ordinary.
Edit: ill follow up on this 2morrow, im dead tired and gatta wake up in 5 hours! Good convo though ttyl about it
Edit: ill follow up on this 2morrow, im dead tired and gatta wake up in 5 hours!
Good convo though ttyl about it
Jakedn
New Member
That's interesting, never heard about that before. If that is the case I don't see a problem with feeding an adult male larger amounts of food than necessary. However, I still see a problem in over feeding juveniles and females. Females will take the excessive amounts of food and put it in to producing eggs, and will produce a very large clutch, which in turn will shorten her life-span. In a juvenile, as I said, could produce weak bones from growing too rapidly.
Jakedn
New Member
How much later on? I mean these members i talk to have had probably hundreds of chams stay in their care the whole chams life, and they saw nothing out of the ordinary.
Edit: ill follow up on this 2morrow, im dead tired and gatta wake up in 5 hours!
How long did they live? How much were they fed? Did they feed the same amount to the females? How much did he feed the juveniles? I'm curious about this and would love to be proven wrong for the sake of learning something new
.-Jake
moody232002
New Member
it's so refreshing to see an open debate without any name calling good job people,looking forward to the continuation when GooglezNvincent wakes up
jojackson
New Member
That will depend on your humidity, lower humidity in its enviroment than is required for sloughing will begin to cause dryness and make shedding difficult. Some seem to slough quickly, within hours, others within days, mine begins at the casque and spreads down, I spray to boost humidity during sloughing, but if I overdo it, I find it seems to 'stick' in little soften rolled up balls, I let it dry out and he sheds it all much more rapidly, like dandruff
Never takes more than 2 days.Rateof shedding will vary greatly from lizard to lizard, depending on a variety of factors, including, rate of growth/age, quality of the diet, state of hydration, rate of enviromental humidity , etc.
Faster in the first 6 months, the greatest period of rapid growth. It seems to slow down after that.
4 times in the last 4 months isnt too far off.
Its amazingly rapid growth, but then its an arborial lizard, no reason it should be more or less for their terrestrial conterparts, both need to grow fairly quickly to avoid predation in either enviroment.
Climatic differences will also be a variable, offspring hatching later in the year, face winter sooner, fast growth must aid survival.
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