sick jackson cham

[ponders]

Hi everyone,
Unfortunately my jackson cham got sick over the last weekend and wasn't using his front feet or eating and drinking. The feet appeared to be slightly swollen. On Monday I took him to the vet and she thinks it is an infection maybe from feeders and prescribed Baytril and Panacur with force feedings of smashed crickets or turkey/chkn baby food. I would like some suggestions on how to force feed with out hurting him? I tried the smashed crickets once and now am using watered down baby food. I put a small piece of airline tubing on the end of the syringe so when he bites it it's not so hard. Anyway, I am having a hard time. He's no better with 4 days of meds, but no worse either. Any input would help. Thanks, Tylene

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Well you did the right thing taking him to a vet...what kind of tests did she run? Also, how long has your cham not been eating? Ok, force feeding is a last resort in my book because of two main reason: 1) it is very stressful and that is the last thing a sick cham needs 2) you take a chance of choking your cham This said, if a good herp vet says you need to force feed then they know best. You sound like you are doing the right things with force feeding...you may want to mix in some pedialyte just to make sure he stays hydrated (there is very little cals so hopefully your cham takes some mashed up food) It will be hard because your cham may regurgitate some of the food. I have never had a cham get an infection like that but I know my first thoughts would be gout, but do what your vet says.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[ponders]

He slowed down on eating for a few days before this happened, but not enough to cause concern until he stopped using his front legs. I thought gout too. The vet didn't take any blood because she said @18g he was too small. He's outside 5 days a week so I don't give him any D3. I've had him for 5 months and he's always been a picky eater, but very active. I was thinking about mixing pedialite in with the food too. Thanks. So far so good.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Sick Baby Jackson......

Can we get a picture of your baby? It sounds like your vet is using a "buckshot" approach to this (trying some stuff and hoping something works). Panacur is to treat nematodes/worms. Did she test a fecal sample and find anything? An infection that causes swelling and loss of use of the front legs seems a bit strange to me. But then I don't have the baby in front of me to examine and I'm not a vet! Anyway, a picture showing the front legs and head would help. You said he was a picky eater. What was he eating before this happened. Is he drinking? This must be very frustrating for you!

 

[ponders]

That's what I thought about the buckshot approach! No there was no fecal done, he wasn't eating so I didn't have any poop to take. He was eating house flies that I hatched out from pupae and he loved them for the last 3 weeks. I threw in a few crickets too. He's approx 1 year old and was drinking fine. He just stopped everything on Saturday and was holding his feet out to the side and shimmying up and down the branches. Now he doesn't move at all, unless I'm treating him. I'll try to add pictures.

 

[kinyonga]

Are the house fly larvae from wild caught flies or did you buy them somewhere?
What did you feed the larvae, if you did?

Are you dusting the insects with calcium? Are you gutloading them and feeding them a nutritious diet?

 

[PardalisGirl]

sick jackson cham.........

Hummmmmmmmmmmm.......your pictures look like edema. He looks great otherwise. I'm not understanding how your vet could not get a blood sample from a 1 year old Jacksons. He is plenty big for that. I think a blood panel would have spoken volumes about his nutritional status as well as whether there was some sort of infection going on. How experienced is this vet with chameleons? He/she could be a great vet for dog/cats/bunnies/birds and is just not experienced with chams. And if he/she was treating for parasites why not also treat for protazoans with Metronidizole? Why just Panacur? Not much about this is making sense for me. Mathew Wheelock, a vet, is on line now. I'm hoping he sees this thread. Maybe you can send him a private message. Do you have any other vet choices?

 

[MWheelock]

Hi guys,

My ears were burning.... I actually leave my computer on and sometimes I leave it on this forum, so it looks like I'm here when I'm not.

Always hard to tell the cause of the swelling. Supplementation errors, husbandry errors, trauma (fell from a branch and landed wrong) and is now painful, pododermatitis because high humidity from the enclosure and there is now bacteria on the vines and branches, parasites, MBD....

I'm certainly all about diagnostics if I can do them, but sometimes it may be too expensive to do any or all of them. I certainly commend you for going to the vet in the first place. Would a fecal and blood smear and chemistry have been nice? Sure, but that might not give a full answer.

Panacur and Baytril? A reasonable shotgun approach. Again, sure.
Looking at the color of your Jackson, it looks pretty good. An acute presentation doesn't really say MBD, nor does it say parasites (but those things could have been brewing for a while).
Mild infection, maybe. Trauma, maybe.

I agree that forcefeeding might me worth while. I prefer Oxbow critical care for carnivores over baby food. In a pinch, I also like Ensure as a source of protien for insectivores. You can grind in insects in a little easier as well.

Stick to the plan (if you feel comfortable with your vet). Check to see if any husbandry issues arose while you were out of town (especially if a friend was taking care of them.

If there doesn't seem to be some resolution in a couple days, or if things seem worse, I'd go back for at least, minimal diagnostics. I might also ask your vet if he/she thinks that pain medication might be indicated.

Good luck,
Matthew

 

[ponders]

Thank you Matthew,
He seemed stronger today, made a feeble attempt to get away when I was feeding him. He seems bloated to me though.

Where can you get the Oxbow critical care? The website says they don't sell online.

I appreciate everyones input and support.

I got the flies from Kammer's and spiderfarm in pupae form and then gutload them when they hatch with yogurt/rice baby food/powdered milk/Ca without D3. The crix I gutload with gutload from mulberry farms along with carrots and greens. I dust them once a week with Ca and then monthly with Minerall.

 

[MWheelock]

You will have to call around to a few vets (preferably an exotic specialist). If you contact ox-bow they will be able to at least tell you the clinics or distributors in your area.

Their hay and critical care products are second to none, but some distributers are harder to find.

The ensure mixed with waxworms and roaches, doesn't seem to bind them up as much (less shell to body ratio).

Good luck,
Matthew

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Ponders,

I forgot to mention that I have several emergency food products available if you want to try them. They are normally only available through prescription or a vet. They are the Lafeber Products Emeraid II, now called Nutri Support and one of their other products called Critical Care. It's not specifically made for reptiles but it is often mentioned in literature as one of those things you keep ready in your reptile medicine chest . It was actually formulated for birds... It is a highly digestable, quickly absorbed nutritional source. And of course, as a fellow member of the South Bay Chameleon Keepers Group, it is free to you while supplies last!

 

[ponders]

Thanks for the Critical Care formula Dave.
Just wanted to report to eveyone that he's doing better today and actually climbed up a stick and gaped at me. His feet don't seem to be in pain anymore and he is grasping the stick with them too. But he spends most of the time sleeping. I know it will be a long road ahead, but wish me luck that things keep going the right way! And thanks again for all the support!
Tylene

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

What a relief! Thank you for the update. Sounds like he's on the road to recovery. Good job looking after your handsome guy. Let us know how he progesses.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Ponders,

Well that's good news!

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Ponders, how's your jackson doing today?

 

[ponders]

Well, I'm sad to report that he was dead when I went home at lunch to treat him. He was a nice little cham and put up a good fight. We'll miss him. Thanks again for all the help.

Gesang, I just read about your new additions! Good luck incubating!

 

[Ren]

Damn! So sad to hear, thought he was on a road to recovery, just goes to show you these little guys can hide their illnesses and weaknesses just about as well as they can hide themselves... once they show its almost too late....

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

I am SO sorry, Tylene. That must have hurt bad, to come in from lunch and find him gone like that. Hopefully you took it pretty well. Don't be discouraged. You did all you could to look after him. And the experience you gained looking after this one will help with the next one. Do you have other chameleons?

Ren is right, mysteriously losing one seems to come with the territory, poor little guys. We lost a subadult female 2 weeks ago. I didn't take it well. She seemed in great health, all energetic, eating, drinking, pooping. One morning I came in and she was half lemon-yellow colored and dead in about an hour. I cried like a baby, became very discouraged, lost sleep, and fought back tears for 2 days. Just being honest, here. It so shocked me. I just couldn't forgive myself, even though there was no way I could see it coming. And I got it in my head that all of our chameleons were going to die, one at a time, beyond our control. Finally my husband talked to me and encouraged me. But I am guessing those emotions are normal for a first loss of that type.

Like you, we try to practice the husbandry skills prescribed on this forum, and be proactive concerning health issues. But I am learning from the experienced people here that sometimes, doing all that you can do, things still happen. But I remind myself- that's the exception. Not the rule. The rest of our chams seem to be doing very well.

 

[ponders]

It is hard losing them, you want to do everything right and are trying and sometimes it's not enough.
Right now we have 1.1 brev about 3 mos old. I am just getting back into chams having taken a 10 year break to have 2 kids. We moved last year and I dusted off my old cage and got the bug again.

In the 90's I had jacksons, veiled and a pair of Parsons. I didn't loose any of them. I either traded up or sold them (Parsons got too big and the people that bought them wanted to try breeding them) My Jackson at that time got a mouth infection that had some very nasty bacteria and I was pregnant at the time and the vet said I shouldn't be treating him so I gave him to the vet technician who took good care of him. My veiled was so aggressive, I decided to try a Jackson again since I really enjoyed the species.

My mistake I think was buying this one from a reptile store at a reptile show. I should have known better (my Dad's a vet-unfortunately not a reptile vet! and we always told people to buy puppies from breeder's not pet stores). Next time I'll buy from a breeder.Maybe I'll try a panther this time there are so many beautiful ones available now.