crosscutts
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thank you for your reply , so you’re thinking respiratory infection ? . I’m sure your day was intense I would do the exact same thing . Definitely watching this thread .
Sick / spasm with video
- Thread starter GrandJean
- Start date
Action Jackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
If she has a respiratory infection she would show labored breathing. She may also have excess mucus and or bubbles in the throat. Opening her mouth if she’s not hot is also a sign of possible respiratory infection. Ceftazidime is not a good drug for this in my experience. Baytril normally knocks this out quickly. Vets seem to always think there is a vitamin A deficiency and want to give an injection. I personally would not have this done.
I’m not a vet but have been down this road with Parson’s quite a few times.
I’m not a vet but have been down this road with Parson’s quite a few times.
A few questions...I'm not a vet...just speaking from experience, etc...
You said..."turns out they had a heavy load of parasites. I’m on the last week of treatment of metronidazole+fenbendazole"....
What parasites were they being treated for?
It's possible that she is having a reaction to the dead parasites in her system. Live parasites in a chameleon's can be "tolerated" but once you kill them, they become "garbage"...and to get rid of the "garbage" puts a heavy load on the immune system and that "garbage often becomes toxic.
You said..."The pair is now separated as the male would shoot his tongue at the female and stress her our, i have gotten this behaviour on video a few times with my webcam. Weird!"...why did you keep them together in the first place? Were they together before the point that you first got them? It's possible this has contributed to the female's state. It's also possible she got some of the parasites from the male and that the stress of the male being in with her could also have contributed to the issues.
You said..."As for general health, they had a heavy load of parasites (specifically the male) and I went ahead and treated. Went very well"...so have the tested clear of parasites now?
I agree with @Action Jackson about the medication and the vitamin A as well.
It could still be a respiratory infection...as I said...I'm not a vet....just giving you food for thought.
You said..."turns out they had a heavy load of parasites. I’m on the last week of treatment of metronidazole+fenbendazole"....
What parasites were they being treated for?
It's possible that she is having a reaction to the dead parasites in her system. Live parasites in a chameleon's can be "tolerated" but once you kill them, they become "garbage"...and to get rid of the "garbage" puts a heavy load on the immune system and that "garbage often becomes toxic.
You said..."The pair is now separated as the male would shoot his tongue at the female and stress her our, i have gotten this behaviour on video a few times with my webcam. Weird!"...why did you keep them together in the first place? Were they together before the point that you first got them? It's possible this has contributed to the female's state. It's also possible she got some of the parasites from the male and that the stress of the male being in with her could also have contributed to the issues.
You said..."As for general health, they had a heavy load of parasites (specifically the male) and I went ahead and treated. Went very well"...so have the tested clear of parasites now?
I agree with @Action Jackson about the medication and the vitamin A as well.
It could still be a respiratory infection...as I said...I'm not a vet....just giving you food for thought.
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This might be of interest...
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/multimedia/table/parasiticides-used-in-reptiles
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/multimedia/table/parasiticides-used-in-reptiles
GrandJean
Established Member
I wish I knew about baytril beforehand, I would of asked about it.
It's possible that she is having a reaction to the dead parasites in her system. Live parasites in a chameleon's can be "tolerated" but once you kill them, they become "garbage"...and to get rid of the "garbage" puts a heavy load on the immune system and that "garbage often becomes toxic.
- I recall clearly pinworms cause the vet mentioned a large load and protozoa if i remember correctly, there was a third i forget the name. Nothing out of the ordinary according to VET so I didn't hold on the info. Follow up is next week, I will clear this up if we make it there. It been a month since last dose and 2 since first, the garbage would still be there?
"The pair is now separated as the male would shoot his tongue at the female and stress her our, i have gotten this behaviour on video a few times with my webcam. Weird!"...why did you keep them together in the first place? Were they together before the point that you first got them? It's possible this has contributed to the female's state. It's also possible she got some of the parasites from the male and that the stress of the male being in with her could also have contributed to the issues.
- The post you are referring to, was written a while after separation, its more of a journal than a day to day tracker, they spent maybe the first 45 days together my timing could be a little off on that, I don't think this is the cause. I put that in because I found the interaction particular and couldn't find anything similar online and made me accelerate de second cage building process. They were in separate cages (cant see each other) during the treatment and have not been in contact since.
"As for general health, they had a heavy load of parasites (specifically the male) and I went ahead and treated. Went very well"...so have the tested clear of parasites now?
- next week is follow up appointment
I agree with @Action Jackson about the medication and the vitamin A as well.
- I guess I could call and switch medication, im out of my league when it comes to injecting stuff. The online research seems to say its safer for a weakened chameleon, maybe that's why she prescribed it.
Here is how I see it, im no vet and dont have the most experience with these types of situations.
My options now are an emergency vet not specialized in chameleons without a CT scanner and research:
- Poops are perfect and don't stink
- They only accept crickets, even if gutloaded, are crickets on their own enough to push up enough vitamin A into the system in larger chameleon species? Just a question dont want to start a thread about this, but it was mentioned by vet.
- spent an entire day with mouth open, even in travel box, no high heat
- video of spams in ribcage
- was in this position also https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-respiratory-infection/
That how I got here. I will be making husbandry mods too, I will put that in the main journal.
Thanks for all the comments and support
It's possible that she is having a reaction to the dead parasites in her system. Live parasites in a chameleon's can be "tolerated" but once you kill them, they become "garbage"...and to get rid of the "garbage" puts a heavy load on the immune system and that "garbage often becomes toxic.
- I recall clearly pinworms cause the vet mentioned a large load and protozoa if i remember correctly, there was a third i forget the name. Nothing out of the ordinary according to VET so I didn't hold on the info. Follow up is next week, I will clear this up if we make it there. It been a month since last dose and 2 since first, the garbage would still be there?
"The pair is now separated as the male would shoot his tongue at the female and stress her our, i have gotten this behaviour on video a few times with my webcam. Weird!"...why did you keep them together in the first place? Were they together before the point that you first got them? It's possible this has contributed to the female's state. It's also possible she got some of the parasites from the male and that the stress of the male being in with her could also have contributed to the issues.
- The post you are referring to, was written a while after separation, its more of a journal than a day to day tracker, they spent maybe the first 45 days together my timing could be a little off on that, I don't think this is the cause. I put that in because I found the interaction particular and couldn't find anything similar online and made me accelerate de second cage building process. They were in separate cages (cant see each other) during the treatment and have not been in contact since.
"As for general health, they had a heavy load of parasites (specifically the male) and I went ahead and treated. Went very well"...so have the tested clear of parasites now?
- next week is follow up appointment
I agree with @Action Jackson about the medication and the vitamin A as well.
- I guess I could call and switch medication, im out of my league when it comes to injecting stuff. The online research seems to say its safer for a weakened chameleon, maybe that's why she prescribed it.
Here is how I see it, im no vet and dont have the most experience with these types of situations.
My options now are an emergency vet not specialized in chameleons without a CT scanner and research:
- Poops are perfect and don't stink
- They only accept crickets, even if gutloaded, are crickets on their own enough to push up enough vitamin A into the system in larger chameleon species? Just a question dont want to start a thread about this, but it was mentioned by vet.
- spent an entire day with mouth open, even in travel box, no high heat
- video of spams in ribcage
- was in this position also https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-respiratory-infection/
That how I got here. I will be making husbandry mods too, I will put that in the main journal.
Thanks for all the comments and support
Action Jackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
A respiratory infection with a Parson’s is by no means a death sentence. You can usually clear it up quickly with the right medication and by eliminating the conditions that caused it. I would ask you vet for Baytril. I use the oral Baytril.
I recently had a female showing siigns of a respiratory infection. She went off her food, had her mouth open, showed labored breathing and had excess mucus in her mouth and throat. I moved her to another cage and started treating her. She was back to normal within a week. She was in a solid sided enclosure. These are not my favorite for Parsons.
I recently had a female showing siigns of a respiratory infection. She went off her food, had her mouth open, showed labored breathing and had excess mucus in her mouth and throat. I moved her to another cage and started treating her. She was back to normal within a week. She was in a solid sided enclosure. These are not my favorite for Parsons.
you said..."I recall clearly pinworms cause the vet mentioned a large load and protozoa if i remember correctly, there was a third i forget the name. Nothing out of the ordinary according to VET so I didn't hold on the info. Follow up is next week, I will clear this up if we make it there. It been a month since last dose and 2 since first, the garbage would still be there?"....I'm not a vet...so I can't be sure. I just remember this happening back in the old days in particular when all we could get was WC chameleons....and my vet would treat the parasites slowly to keep the load of "garbage" down so they could cope.
You said..."The post you are referring to, was written a while after separation, its more of a journal than a day to day tracker"... I realize that.
You said..."they spent maybe the first 45 days together my timing could be a little off on that, I don't think this is the cause"... Stress can cause an increase the parasite load. It's also wise to quarantine new WC's in separate cages in separate rooms to ensure that they've ever time to acclimate and if one is sick, it doesn't kill the other one by passing something to it.
You said..." I put that in because I found the interaction particular and couldn't find anything similar online and made me accelerate de second cage building process"...still wouldn't have prevented an increase in the parasite load or prevented them from picking up parasites from each other...and they would still be stressing each other which compromises their health. In the wild they can walk away from each other in the cage they have to face the stress which compromises the immune system and could push them towards illnesses.
They were in separate cages (cant see each other) during the treatment and have not been in contact since"...I see.
It still could be just a respiratory infection. I don't know how the vet tests for "garbage" from dead parasites.
You said..."The post you are referring to, was written a while after separation, its more of a journal than a day to day tracker"... I realize that.
You said..."they spent maybe the first 45 days together my timing could be a little off on that, I don't think this is the cause"... Stress can cause an increase the parasite load. It's also wise to quarantine new WC's in separate cages in separate rooms to ensure that they've ever time to acclimate and if one is sick, it doesn't kill the other one by passing something to it.
You said..." I put that in because I found the interaction particular and couldn't find anything similar online and made me accelerate de second cage building process"...still wouldn't have prevented an increase in the parasite load or prevented them from picking up parasites from each other...and they would still be stressing each other which compromises their health. In the wild they can walk away from each other in the cage they have to face the stress which compromises the immune system and could push them towards illnesses.
They were in separate cages (cant see each other) during the treatment and have not been in contact since"...I see.
It still could be just a respiratory infection. I don't know how the vet tests for "garbage" from dead parasites.
dinomom
Chameleon Enthusiast
The "garbage" will act just like a toxin, it can affect liver and kidney values in bloodwork.
GrandJean
Established Member
Hey guys,
Im gonna let the current medication go another day, if things don’t get better I’m gonna switch to oral baytril if they let me get it. There is no danger in swapping like overdosing or something?
Last video I got of her. It’s like she gets seizures and falls.
She spent a good while in “upward facing dog” position with her mouth open.
We’re approaching 2 weeks without food, I’m going to syringe feed her carnivore diet tomorrow.
Im gonna let the current medication go another day, if things don’t get better I’m gonna switch to oral baytril if they let me get it. There is no danger in swapping like overdosing or something?
Last video I got of her. It’s like she gets seizures and falls.
She spent a good while in “upward facing dog” position with her mouth open.
We’re approaching 2 weeks without food, I’m going to syringe feed her carnivore diet tomorrow.
Action Jackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
Do you have any pictures of their individual enclosures?
Exactly.
GrandJean
Established Member
Looks like crap at the moment as I’m in emergency mode and testing parameters.
Added window seal last night to up humidity.
Y’all might wonder why the male as such a bigger cage, well it plan was to build two but the design had so many flaws with misting and cricket escape I just went old school for the second one and will add a third module when she gets bigger.
Also, there much more foliage on the left side but I removed so I can monitor with webcam.
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GrandJean
Established Member
Hmmm good question, she would have to be at the extreme top right, look through two screens, plants and all the equipment on top of the males cage. But I would guess it is not out of the realm of possibility. I will cover this up tonight when i get home. Thanks!
This morning her feet punched holes in my skin so we have strength, but again, she went into this weird seizure/trance, shes just gone when those happen, completely dead eyes, then she comes back, also when this happens i notice one of her eyes pops out a little more than normal while the other goes deeper inside. I might just be overanalyzing too.
I gave her 0.6ml Carnivore diet and was injected with 2ml saline water.
GrandJean
Established Member
vet said to increase during treatment?
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
That is concerning. I hope the vet treatment works out for you.
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
