Sick tongue... on a young veiled

[mystic1925]

Hello all,
I am new to the site and have found it very helpful... I am just amazing that at the great community you all have created!

Thus I am coming to you with an issue and hoping for aid. I have been raising veiled chams since I was 7 and have had no major issues that couldn't be fixed... but I hit a wall! my 6 month Cham seems to have a tongue infection.
He keeps trying to catch crickets but missing.. even when he is 2 inches away... it just its not sticking....
His coloring looks good and healthy.. his eyes are nice and clean and he is perfectly coordinated when moving.. he still drinks water normally... but his tongue is all puffed up...
anyone out there have any suggestions?
He is very new to my household... so he may have a vitamin deficiency from the seller I got him from... but he has no other symptoms of a vitamin issue... so I am led to believe that he may have gotten cut up or bitten by a cricket.. I had to feed him large ones for a short while since the store was out of the mediums... and he doesn't seem to like worms quite yet.

So far I got him some wax worms and meal worms and coated them with vitamin powder.. he ate a few because he was hungry... and I mixed the powder with water and sprayed it all over the live his plant in his cage.. hoping he will drink it or eat it off the leaves...

It’s only been a day so it’s hard to tell if its helped yet...
I will take any suggestions!
if it doesn't clear in a day or two I will go to the vet...

 

[PardalisGirl]

Pictures......

A couple of things.....How about a picture of this Veiled? There is also a form somewhere on the site (please someone provide the link) to provide specific details needed to do a complete job of analyzing the issue. I would stop fussing with the vitamin powder. No more spraying. If you have not had other issues and feel you have been supplementing properly before there is no need to change that and do other stuff like spraying it. You need to figure out the issue first. It may have gotten a spider bite if it tried to eat one. I think the best plan was one you already stated. If the swelling does not go down in two days then go see a qualified reptile vet.

 

[Miss Lily]

Here's the 'ask for help' form PardalisGirl said about. Please fill it in to give us more information about your cham and his habitat.

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
* Location - Where are you geographically located?


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[kinyonga]

It could be an infection or it might have to do with MBD or it could be from an injury. The only way to know for sure is to take it to a vet.

When you talk about giving him vitamins...which ones specifically do you use and how often for each?

You said..."He is very new to my household"...how long have you had him?

Can you post a picture please?

 

[mystic1925]

reply to all..

Hello all,
thank you for your replies.... the forum site didn't notify me of your threads so sorry for the delay.

He seems the same... I had to go out of town for work but I have a vet appointment of Monday...
I am misting him 3 times a day right now.. he drink a bit most times... be is still trying to eat but his tongue is just not sticking or hitting the food...

the following are the best answers I can give right know since I am not home but on a business trip... plus a picture of him from last week...

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
18X 18X 30
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
i have a heating lamp with a 150 watt light on the top side and a 5.0 repti glow UVB light on the cage.... the UBV is on from 8 am till about 8 pm.

* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
the heat lamp is on all the time... the cages temp is 80F to 95 F during the day, while at night 70F to 85F since I keep the windows open. the bottom is cooler and he moves all over the place. I have a reptile thermometer.

* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
I keep him in the bathroom next to a window...next to the tub... I mist him very well in the morning and evening till the cage is soaked... I have a drip bottle in there for during the day. I don't have a humidity gauging tool.

* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
I have ficus and a maiden hair fern. they are clean I potted them in organic soil and I clean it out every time I clean the screen cage.

* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
the cage is 2 feet off the ground in an eastern facing window in a a bathroom next to a bath tube... it is a room that keeps a cool temp and humidity easily. the window is open 3 inchs for fresh air and shades are down to minimize excessive heat. there are no vents or fans... its an old Victorian on a quiet road....
* Location - Where are you geographically located?
Alameda, CA... the bay area.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
a veiled male about 6 months old. I have had him for under a month.

* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
2 to 3 times a week... mostly when cleaning and adjusting the cage... or to put him on an out door climbing are for a few minutes..

* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
I feed him mostly crickets... I gut load them with carrots, spinach, potato and cricket vitamin quintch... I give him 10 medium crickets every 2 dates... it takes him a while to eat them... I have tried a large variety of worms but he isn't interested... he eats is ficus plant and spinach too.

* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
I use repti Cal... the calcium with vitamin D and the multi Vitamin. at first I alternated the pounders but now I mixed them and give them to him every time.

* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
I have a mist bottle... and I do it till the ficus is completely wet... I use dechlorinated water that I have let sit over night. I always see him drink...

* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
I don't know about the parasites... as I said I just got him at a n expo show..
his fecal matter is dark black brown with the white. its normal looking ...

* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
as far as I know his has been fine...

* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.
is tongue is swollen... he can shoot it out but it misses and is not sticking to his food.. even up close... his skin and coloring look the same ... no flaky-ness around the mouth or eyes...

 

[kinyonga]

Regarding supplements...I dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder (Rep-cal) and twice a month with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A (Herptivite) and twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder. I think you are overdoing the vitamins and the D3 to begin with. Don't know if that could have anything to do with the tongue or not.

Regarding gutloading and feeding him spinach...spinach binds calcium, so I would drop it. I use a wide variety of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, celery leaves, zucchini, squash, etc.) to gutload crickets, roaches and superworms with. Other insects have other needs. Broccoli, spinach, cabbage and other cruciferous veggies should not be used.

It still would be a good idea to go to the vets.

 

[mystic1925]

I used to do the calcium with D3 and the vitamins once a week maybe twice.. but when his tongue got sick, I called the Doc and he said to try pushing more powders to make it go away...
I have an appointment on Monday...
I will let you know what he says after he checks him over...
I agree.. I feel the supplement I have been giving him as of late is too much... tanks for confirming that feeling..

 

[kinyonga]

If the tongue issue is related to a calcium imbalance then it will need more calcium than normal. The vet could give it injections of calcium and when the blood calcium levels are high enough it can be followed by a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium rapidly back into the bones.

 

[mystic1925]

Sigfreid- the Veiled Cham... update on his tongue

Quick update: the doc said that the supplements I gave him helped with the swelling... he said that my Cham wasn't really given much care by his previous owner...
There is still some swelling but he feels it will go away on its own...and wants me to come in for a follow up check-up...
he says that my cham (Sigfried) will probably have a weak tongue from here on out and he may have to be hand fed in the long run..

all in all it could be worse! my baby should be fine!


Thank you all for all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Side note: Its makes me so sad that the reptile market can be such a racket... poorly breed and taken care of animals... its not fair to these creatures to have to live their lives like this when they don't have to....