Sick Veiled Chameleon

[morganm]

View attachment 212675 View attachment 212676 Hi! I’m new here. My female veiled chameleon of almost two years of age (though I’ve only had her for about four months), Pascal, stopped eating a few weeks ago and I was worried, but after consulting the Internet and seeing that there were a few harmless reasons (like that she was about to start molting), decided to give it a few days. I soon started to notice that she seemed lethargic and wasn’t climbing around her cage as much as she used to, and that her legs seemed swollen. Once again, I consulted the Internet, and metabolic bone disease seemed the most plausible self-diagnosis based on those three things, as well as that not all of her food had been properly gutloaded (I guess I missed that part in my chameleon care research). An “animal expert” in the family thought it was likely an infection, as MBD takes awhile to set it and I’ve only had her for about four months. Obviously, a vet appointment was needed. The vet also said it was an infection, and after two visits and two weeks on antibiotics (Orbax), she still isn’t eating and doesn’t look much better. She does seem a bit more energetic, and the vet tech said she still has a strong grip, which is a good sign. I’m still worried; how long should it take for the antibiotics to work, or could it have been a misdiagnosis? Pictures from today are attached.

 

[Bettina]

She might be all right as far as the infection is concerned but antibiotics can have sonme side effects, did you ask your vet that? Th microbiome in her bowels might be destroyed. In Europe there is a medicine called bene bac to build up the microbiome again. But its difficult, so many possibilities.

 

[morganm]

She might be all right as far as the infection is concerned but antibiotics can have sonme side effects, did you ask your vet that? Th microbiome in her bowels might be destroyed. In Europe there is a medicine called bene bac to build up the microbiome again. But its difficult, so many possibilities.

A quick google search has revealed that common side effects of Orbax are depression and loss of appetite, which were two already present problems. I’ll look into the microbiome thing. Thank you!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

@morganm welcome to the forum. Please do not make multiple threads for the same issue. We advise many people every day and the multiple threads make it difficult to keep track of who/what were advising.

 

[morganm]

@morganm welcome to the forum. Please do not make multiple threads for the same issue. We advise many people every day and the multiple threads make it difficult to keep track of who/what were advising.

I didn’t mean to make two. I was trying to edit the first and I guess it reposted it, but I couldn’t figure out how to delete one of them. Sorry!

 

[Decadancin]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/sick-veiled-chameleon.165528/

Here is the other post that has been locked...

 

[morganm]

To respond to @blue_cham on the other thread:
So you think that her legs look more like MBD than an infection, like the vet said it was? There are some better, clearer pictures attached here that weren’t on the op.
Second, here is the info:
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - A female veiled chameleon. She was eighteen months old when she came into my care in mid April, so she’s about twenty two months now and I’ve had her for four.
• Handling - She doesn’t like being handled, but has been picked up once a day for about two weeks to be given her antibiotics, which the vet prescribed. (She’s got the drill now, and opens her mouth when she sees the bottle )
• Feeding - She hasn’t been eating for a few weeks (part of the concern here), but she had been eating mostly crickets with the occasional meal worms. She’d eat about 5-7 a day.
• Supplements - Her crickets had not been gutloaded with commercial calcium cricket food, instead I normally gave them some kind of fruit or vegetable (after checking online to see if it was safe), and I hadn’t been dusting, which led to the concerns about MBD. I have been dusting crickets since she got sick, because now I know that I need to, but she’s only eaten a few. Today I got liquid calcium, to make sure her needs are met until she starts eating again, but I’m not sure how much to give her.
• Watering - I mist her for a few minutes a few times a day, and she drinks often.
• Fecal Description - Before she wasn’t ill, it looked normal (based off of what I’ve seen on this and other chameleon care sites), and since she’s been sick, it’s been grayish and occasionally runny (which could be a side effect of the antibiotics the vet has her on, Orbax).
• History - She hasn’t had any other health problems while in my care. The vet has diagnosed her with an infection and prescribed Orbax, which she has been taking for about two weeks now with little improvement.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Glass, which I know isn’t ideal but we got the cage before the chameleon. There is no lid, which hopefully allows for enough ventilation. The enclosure is just over two feet tall, and is hexagon shaped, with each side being about 10 inches.
• Lighting - I use the zoo med “combo deep dome lamp fixture” with a 5.0 UVB light and the daylight blue bulb for basking and heat.
• Temperature - She’s been staying lower and at the bottoms of her cage, and the vet suggested I keep her in the upper 80’s, so I moved the light closer. Typically, before she fell ill, the bottom would be about 75, with a mid range of maybe 80, and a warmer basking spot.
• Humidity - The humidity is about 60-70%. I use a coconut substrate which helps to hold humidity from misting water, and when that fails to keep it high enough, I use a humidifier.
• Plants - I don’t currently have any live plants in there, but I have put a few hibiscus leaves in before.
• Placement - It’s near the window and under the fan. And it’s on a stand, so it starts about two feet above the floor and the top is about four feet from the floor.
• Location - Bakersfield, California.

Thank you!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

I didn’t mean to make two. I was trying to edit the first and I guess it reposted it, but I couldn’t figure out how to delete one of them. Sorry!

No need to apologize, just wanted to mention it...

 

[morganm]

PS - Egg binding is now another fear of mine. I thought that the laying on the ground was just lethargy, but if it seems like she’s digging to get ready to lay eggs, that’s a whole new concern and I know nothing about it. If she was ready to lay eggs or at risk for egg binding, the vet should have mentioned that when she saw one last week, right?

 

[Brodybreaux25]

You are a prime example of someone getting a new toy because it looked cool without bothering to learn a thing about it. You have no business with a Cham. You also need a new vet.

Chams do go on hunger strikes from time to time but not for 3 weeks or more. She is lethargic and her legs are swollen because she has MBD due to you not giving her the proper supplements or gutloading her feeders properly. You can see from the pic you posted that her limbs are starting to deform. When was the last time she laid? If she is developing eggs, or is already egg bound, that will compound the effects of MBD. Her body has been robbing her bones of calcium to make up for your lack of supplementation.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Now that that’s out of the way, you need to figure out for sure if she is gravid or not. Can you feel any eggs when you press gently on the belly? I recommend you find a local exotic vet and request an x-ray to determine both weather or not she is gravid and how advanced the MBD is. If she is gravid with what looks like fairly advanced MBD medical intervention will be required. If somehow she pulls through all that you have some major husbandry changes to make. MBD can not be reversed but you can stall the process by giving her the proper feeders on a quality gutload(cricket crack), vitamins, calcium powders, and plenty of natural, unfiltered sunshine. You can give her liquid calcium but be sure to follow the directions exactly and read up on how to administer it before you give it to her. If done wrong she will choke and die.

I hope you will study this guide so you can give your Cham the proper care it deserves.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.626/

 

[morganm]

You are a prime example of someone getting a new toy because it looked cool without bothering to learn a thing about it. You have no business with a Cham. You also need a new vet.

Chams do go on hunger strikes from time to time but not for 3 weeks or more. She is lethargic and her legs are swollen because she has MBD due to you not giving her the proper supplements or gutloading her feeders properly. You can see from the pic you posted that her limbs are starting to deform. When was the last time she laid? If she is developing eggs, or is already egg bound, that will compound the effects of MBD. Her body has been robbing her bones of calcium to make up for your lack of supplementation.

I learned plenty about it, or so I thought. While I know that the lack of supplementation is my fault, a vet giving the wrong diagnosis isn't, and I'm so sorry that I trusted a trained professional over the Internet the first time.
I don't know when she last laid, but I know she hasn't since I got her four months ago.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

What kind of liquid calcium did you buy? Post a pic please.

 

[morganm]

What kind of liquid calcium did you buy? Post a pic please.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Since he isn’t eating it will have to be given via a syringe without a needle. Place the syringe in the back of the chams mouth and gently discharge the syringe. The below pic should help.